Cursillo

[tafan]

I’ve just read through most of this thread, but can’t find my answer. Can someone please tell me if you must make a Cursillo through your own diocese? I have spoken to the person ‘in charge’ in our diocese, and I unfortunately cannot follow 2 of the rules they have (no cell phone and can’t drive yourself) because of needing to be available for my mother. Thanks in advance!

I suspect you will be told the same thing at almost any other Cursillo. It seems to be a rule.

 

[gh4]

You can contact another diocese and ask them if you can attend their cursillo and ask about driving yourself and your cell phone. I think with the “after” meetings (reunions?) that are held that they might want you do to it in your own diocese. I know a lot of people here go to the ultrayas (?spelling) and they made their cursillos in different areas before they moved here, and that doesn’t seem to be an issue.

My cell phone wasn’t an issue because I didn’t have one at the time.
But driving myself was an issue and one of those things with me that will be forever non-negotiable for any retreat that lasts more than a day.

 

[iloveangels]

I suspect you will be told the same thing at almost any other Cursillo. It seems to be a rule.

I’ve googled all over the internet because I was curious about this no phones, no driving thing. It’s pretty much universal in all the directions for sponsors that I’ve found. Sponsors are given very clear directions about driving the person to the event, and there is always a list of things that aren’t supposed to be taken in. Wristwatches are always on the list, and in the newer lists, cell phones and other electronics are almost always listed specifically.

Go out and google “cursillo what to bring to the weekend” and look around and you’ll see what I mean.

Typical: “You are requested to leave home your watches, cell phones, cameras, pagers, and other worldly distractions. One team member will have a cell phone for emergency use only, and its number will be provided to your sponsor.”

You can’t even leave a number for your family to call in, in case of emergency apparently. A fair number of people don’t know where they are during the cursillo either. Your sponsor drives you to the event and if it’s someplace new where you’ve never been, you may be out of luck.

 

[iloveangels]

Another one in a major American city on the West Coast: “You are requested to leave home your watches, cell phones, pagers, and other worldly distractions. One team member will have a cell phone for emergency use only, and it will be provided to your sponsor.”

And another from the opposite side of the US, in Maryland: “You are requested to leave watches, cell phones, cameras, pagers, and other worldly distractions at home. One team member will have a cell phone for emergency use only, and its number will be provided to your sponsor.”

This really appears to be BOILERPLATE, now that I’m looking at it closely. That probably means it’s a big policy all over.

 

[gh4]

To me, not knowing the time, or even the approximate time, is a huge distraction.

But everywhere I looked before going to Cursillo, the rules were the same. I never found one place online that told me I could bring a phone, a watch and drive myself. Not one.

 

[BlueRoses12]

Kimberly Ann, I too consider myself a strong woman. I managed a $100M distribution center in a fairly male dominated industry. I know how and when to say “enough”. But I found nothing to object to at Cursillo. I am also a control freak Though difficult, letting go of my day was a weight lifted from my shoulders.

I do believe it is very important for these “extremist leaders” to be corrected. The damage they are doing to some of the participants is heart-breaking. But these participants need to speak up to their priests and Bishops. God Bless You.

Mummsie, what I said in my prior post directly addressed this. You either did not read it (perhaps because it was so long, the point was buried! heh, I do tend to get long winded), or gently disregarded it.

And that leads me to my human limitation: I can only put this information in front of people. I can’t force them to read, assimilate, or regard.

The irony of this whole situation is that, a few years before this had happened, I had achingly longed for community and prayed to God to bring me fellowship. It wasn’t until my staunchly Catholic aunt, God rest her soul, gently challenged me in this, that I decided to search for God alone. The very “nada, nada, nada” of the Carmelite Order – and shortly after making that decision, God did indeed lead me to my secular Camelite group.

Therefore, it was a high (and hilarious) irony that after that, I was pulled into this community – the Cursillo derivative – that superficially was everything I had originally prayed for! It gushed with the human affection I thought I’d wanted – but at what price! It was controlling, harmfully meddling, disrespectful, human-centered, and laid out a path that was a counterfeit of true Catholicism.

At best, it was like eating junk food right before dinner and spoiling one’s appetite.

But all I can do is give my warning. I can’t force people to read and heed.

Finally … I’ve heard this before, people calling themselves “control freaks” for having a perfectly natural desire to scope out an activity before deciding to pursue it. That’s normal and natural. God gave us prudence – it’s one of the cardinal virtues.

 

[BlueRoses12]

You can’t even leave a number for your family to call in, in case of emergency apparently. A fair number of people don’t know where they are during the cursillo either. Your sponsor drives you to the event and if it’s someplace new where you’ve never been, you may be out of luck.

THANK YOU. That was the thing that was so shocking to me, and I beat myself up so badly for having allowed it. What if there had been an emergency at home? Had I allowed myself to be gulled into a sort of coma by my sponsor’s hypnotic “Don’t worry about it!” to my questions? They’re really trained well on how to do this.

The only thing I can surmise is that the shock the candidate feels after the doors clang shut and they realize how trapped they are, is part of the process, part of the method.

 

[mnm67]

I suspect you will be told the same thing at almost any other Cursillo. It seems to be a rule.

Some of the people in this thread said those rules weren’t so stringent at theirs, so I was hoping. Although, now after thinking about it, they could have been fibbing to get people to not be so apprehensive.

 

[gh4]

I did demand a phone number for my pet sitter, and was given a phone number for the kitchen area at the place where we were. I have two very elderly dogs and would have hiked home to get to them if they became ill or had issues with me gone.

One of the heart stopping moments of my cursillo was when I came into my room and there on my bed was one of those “while you were out” slips of paper (made for phone messages) on my bed, I thought something had happened to one of my dogs… Turned out someone copied a bunch of them from the local college and made them to look like a message from Jesus. I did not appreciate it. When my heart beat came down to a normal rate, I let them know about that one. I was told that if something had happened to my dogs that they would have told me face to face… how was I to know that, I had to threaten not to go to Cursillo before I was given a contact number…

 

[Mummsie]

Blue Rose,

If the previous post you’re referring to is the one about it’s Cursillo’s job to monitor the leaders in each diocese, then, yes I read it. I just can’t imagine not wanting to officially push back and alert the Bishop of such radical behaviors.

My comment about “control freak” was strictly referring to me. However, I was willing to Let Go for a little while that weekend.

mnm67: I was able to have a watch, a phone, my laptop. Nobody does a luggage search. I did curtail my use of those “worldly distractions” voluntarily. I am not fibbing. I am concerned this thread has deteriorated to such a point that one’s honesty is in question. The majority of the negative commentors (about 4 or 5) are from people that had a very bad experience. Understandable. But there are thousands of good Catholics that have had a good experience. Due to timing I went to a different diocese for my Cursillo. My experience in the Gaylord, Mi diocese was very good. If the Cursillo in your diocese (or a nearby diocese) cannot meet your needs, then you probably shouldn’t go. There are many other retreats that may work better for you.

God Bless!

 

[ringil]

I’ve never been to a Cursillo but I have been to a few individual retreats and they have asked that laptops and radios be left at home.

They also state that folks need to turn their phones off and that they shouldn’t be using them while they are there.

 

[gh4]

I am not fibbing. I am concerned this thread has deteriorated to such a point that one’s honesty is in question. The majority of the negative commentors (about 4 or 5) are from people that had a very bad experience. Understandable.

God Bless!

Honesty being questioned started WAY back, about 15 or more pages back when my honesty was questioned.

I personally don’t think anyone here is being dishonest.

 

[BlueRoses12]

I do believe it is very important for these “extremist leaders” to be corrected. The damage they are doing to some of the participants is heart-breaking. But these participants need to speak up to their priests and Bishops. Though letting off steam on this thread may be cathartic, it’s not getting to the right people. I hope they will make a difference by making a call to the appropriate people.

I just can’t imagine not wanting to officially push back and alert the Bishop of such radical behaviors.

As I said in Post #434: “Who’d believe me? Even I didn’t fully believe me, for a long time. I think I went into shock, and put it on ice. I was … beyond scared. And nowhere near strong enough …]”

I’ve had the experience of making a call to the appropriate people and alerting the Bishop of radical behaviors in my diocese, when those radical behaviors were happening to me. That’s one of the places I got my conviction that everything I say is going to be discounted if my psychiatric history becomes known. Furthermore, one would only have to go back 20 years to realize bishop inaction in cases of abuse has become, um, not an extreme surprise.

Perhaps the person who went through an appalling weekend isn’t ready to face it, especially if it really destabilized them. Might not be for quite awhile. (That’s one of the reasons people with mental or emotional challenges are supposed to be screened out of these weekends – for them, such an extremely intense experience can be dangerous.) Do you sincerely think the responsibility for cleaning up this movement should fall on them?

Do you think putting the responsibility for correction on the candidates is a healthy idea? Don’t think for a minute it wouldn’t be used. Don’t think the leadership wouldn’t suss out that people feel this way, interpret it as a green light, and adopt it: “Don’t worry about possible mistakes and abuses; let’s wait until we get complaints from a candidate to change anything.”

When you have people essentially trapped in a situation replete with psychological manipulation, it’s rather a no-brainer that it’s rife for abuse. As I said in Post #434, “The very core idea of the weekend, as it originated (not as it was watered down by more sane people) is problematic. …] this is like those trust falls. I’m sure many people have had a great time falling backward into a group’s linked arms. …] Yet a sizable number of people have been badly injured.”

Finally, I disagree that “Though letting off steam on this thread may be cathartic, it’s not getting to the right people.” I believe it is. The people I care about cluing in are those considering a weekend. They have a right to this information, and the more truth that is put out there, the easier and more informative future google searches will be.

 

[gh4]

Finally, I disagree that “Though letting off steam on this thread may be cathartic, it’s not getting to the right people.”

I believe it is. The people I care about cluing in are those considering a weekend. They have a right to this information, and the more truth that is put out there, the easier and more informative future google searches will be.

I believe it is too. I am hoping that when someone puts Cursillo into google, it will come to this thread. And that they will read all the pages to it and that they can then make an informed decision as to attend or not attend. Or even if it spurs them on to ask more questions and demand answers before they go it will have done a good thing.

Cursillo can be very good, and it can also go horribly wrong. I only wish I had known what I know now before going to the cursillo weekend, I might still go, but I would be armed enough to know what to do and how to do it and what I needed to ask for etc.

 

[GraceofStars]

Hello! My husband and I were approached by an older couple at our Parish about attending a Cursillo. They gave us a brochure. I was wondering if anyone who has done this can answer a few questions/give some thoughts/ advice?

1. Do BOTH members of a married couple do this-it can’t just be one of the 2? My husband’s answer was “Maybe someday”
2. Is this a leadership prep type of event? The brochure talked about reading people to take on leadership roles.
3. I am VERY interested in this. I am a married, working outside the home, mother of 3 kids between the ages of 13 and 8; I teach religious education on Weds nights and help with Cub scouts. It sounds like there are “4th day” events that happen after…is this something that I should wait to do?

The “good” news is I don’t have to rush into a decision–I cannot make it to the next scheduled Cursillo anyway-we are on a family vacation. The other thing that concerns me is approaching the priest about this-he has to sign off that he believes me to be emotionally stable he has heard my confessions and knows my struggles, not that it would make me actually unstable, it’s just something that popped into my head. I think I am as stable as any parent my age

Thoughts are appreciated
Kim

KIMBERLY, I offer the following information re: Cursillo. All the following is true and correct, regardless of what you may have been told, and are from my own personal experience. Cursillo procedures are generally kept secret from the parish members who have not been thru a Cursillo, and group members receive a “Security Talk/Lesson” at the end of the Cursillo swearing secrecy, and emphasising that “outsiders/non-members” should never receive info about what goes on during the Cursillo. Essentially Cursillo is normally a 3 1/2 day weekend of religious study which is “cloistered”…ie: you are sealed off from the public/outside world and receive a series of lessons each day and evening. These lessons are called Rollos. In between lessons, the group will pray, attend Mass, recieve communion, etc. A priest will be present for those Holy Activities. Cursillo is held for women and men on separate weekends. The only men allowed at the Womens Cursillo is a priest. Each person attending a Cursillo is supposed to be approved by a Priest in advance (although some Cursillo Leaders don’t obey this rule). The reason a priest should sign-off is Cursillo breaks a person down emotionally, and any attendee who is deemed a timid, introverted, or otherwise overemotional person could be subjected to extreme duress, and suffer long-term emotional problems later. So it is important that such persons not attend Cursillo. Activities/Procedures usually include the following, although each Cursillo is regional, and slight differences occur in different Dioceses, but generally the following procedures apply: Initiates are driven/cannot drive own car. No Cell phones or outside communication allowed, Windows are covered/blacked out. Groups are formed for lessons. One member of your group may be a “worm/spy”. One person from each table will be targeted as a future leader. That is the seed person who will insure Cursillo spreads. All meals will be supurb. An evening meal will have tables in form of a cross, with candle light. You will be hugged, loved, verbally stroked, sympathized with, etc etc from sunrise to bed time. When the Cursillo is over, you will be met by many,many previous graduates welcoming you “into the fold” with songs and guitar music.
You may feel a extreme need not to betray the group, and therefore will become secretive to ousiders regarding Cursillo procedures. Husbands & Wives are encouraged to both join Cursillo to ensure they do not “backslide” on the group. For some people Cursillo becomes a “replacement church” where they begin to trust Cursillo more than they do the Catholic Church/Priest. Graduates will begin to attend monthly/bi-monthly meetings of members called Ultreyas. They will wear rainbow colored necklaces and bracelets to identify with Cursillo, and a special Cursillo Cross, rather that the Catholic Crucifix. All in All, some say Cursillo is a cult. Some say it is not. You are the ultimate decision maker. Cursillo & Marriage Encounter grads tend to not associate much with non-members/outsiders. Both organizations fill a need for some people, while just a Normal Church life satisfies other’s needs. I suggest you find more about Cursillo before you take the leap. You may undergo a permanent life-long irreversable change by attending a Cursillo. If that’s what you’re looking for, go for it. God Bless & good luck !

 

[KimberlyAnn0218]

KIMBERLY, I offer the following information re: Cursillo. All the following is true and correct, regardless of what you may have been told, and are from my own personal experience. Cursillo procedures are generally kept secret from the parish members who have not been thru a Cursillo, and group members receive a “Security Talk/Lesson” at the end of the Cursillo swearing secrecy, and emphasising that “outsiders/non-members” should never receive info about what goes on during the Cursillo. Essentially Cursillo is normally a 3 1/2 day weekend of religious study which is “cloistered”…ie: you are sealed off from the public/outside world and receive a series of lessons each day and evening. These lessons are called Rollos. In between lessons, the group will pray, attend Mass, recieve communion, etc. A priest will be present for those Holy Activities. Cursillo is held for women and men on separate weekends. The only men allowed at the Womens Cursillo is a priest. Each person attending a Cursillo is supposed to be approved by a Priest in advance (although some Cursillo Leaders don’t obey this rule). The reason a priest should sign-off is Cursillo breaks a person down emotionally, and any attendee who is deemed a timid, introverted, or otherwise overemotional person could be subjected to extreme duress, and suffer long-term emotional problems later. So it is important that such persons not attend Cursillo. Activities/Procedures usually include the following, although each Cursillo is regional, and slight differences occur in different Dioceses, but generally the following procedures apply: Initiates are driven/cannot drive own car. No Cell phones or outside communication allowed, Windows are covered/blacked out. Groups are formed for lessons. One member of your group may be a “worm/spy”. One person from each table will be targeted as a future leader. That is the seed person who will insure Cursillo spreads. All meals will be supurb. An evening meal will have tables in form of a cross, with candle light. You will be hugged, loved, verbally stroked, sympathized with, etc etc from sunrise to bed time. When the Cursillo is over, you will be met by many,many previous graduates welcoming you “into the fold” with songs and guitar music.
You may feel a extreme need not to betray the group, and therefore will become secretive to ousiders regarding Cursillo procedures. Husbands & Wives are encouraged to both join Cursillo to ensure they do not “backslide” on the group. For some people Cursillo becomes a “replacement church” where they begin to trust Cursillo more than they do the Catholic Church/Priest. Graduates will begin to attend monthly/bi-monthly meetings of members called Ultreyas. They will wear rainbow colored necklaces and bracelets to identify with Cursillo, and a special Cursillo Cross, rather that the Catholic Crucifix. All in All, some say Cursillo is a cult. Some say it is not. You are the ultimate decision maker. Cursillo & Marriage Encounter grads tend to not associate much with non-members/outsiders. Both organizations fill a need for some people, while just a Normal Church life satisfies other’s needs. I suggest you find more about Cursillo before you take the leap. You may undergo a permanent life-long irreversable change by attending a Cursillo. If that’s what you’re looking for, go for it. God Bless & good luck !

Thank-you for your very thoughtful reply–I appreciate it!!! BUT this is an old thread and I did take the leap last March and was so glad I did!!! So…>DeColores sister in Christ!

 

[BlueRoses12]

GraceofStars, thank you for your post. You confirm what several others have said, and what is increasingly being evident. Your spontaneous and disinterested (name removed by moderator)ut is valuable.

Yes, this is an old thread, so it may not be of use to the original poster, but this thread has grown far beyond being “just” about the original poster; it’s about important things that have needed to be aired, in fact are long overdue for an airing. As one who has participated in it, I appreciate your further confirmation of the facts, GraceofStars.

The reason a priest should sign-off is Cursillo breaks a person down emotionally, and any attendee who is deemed a timid, introverted, or otherwise overemotional person could be subjected to extreme duress, and suffer long-term emotional problems later.

Or someone who is considered, in the founder’s own insulting and belittling words, to “not have a personality at all.”

At this late date, I’d like to ask a question, if any of the former participants are still reading here. Some time ago, people said they were going to inform some level of Cursillo management about this thread, to warn them of problems that are occurring, and give them an opportunity to fine-tune. Did this ever happen? Was there any response from Cursillo management? I have my suspicions, but am open to being pleasantly surprised.

I’d like to further recommend the book Cursillo: Little Courses in Catharsis by Brian V. Janssen. I finally took the plunge and ordered it, and wow, is it packed with information! It’s a bit pricey (only in hardback, not paperback or Kindle), but it was worth the cost.

If anyone is seriously thinking of attending a Cursillo, I’d strongly advise them to obtain and read it.

I would also, again, recommend reading the pertinent chapter in Carol Bonomo’s book The Abbey Up The Hill, where she reports her Cursillo experience. I believe it’s pages 182 through 185, in the edition I read. Unlike the Jansen book, this is easily found in a library.

gh4, once again, I’m so sorry you were so badly hurt.

MaryJK and Iloveangels, you were awesome on this thread. You kept the dialog going, forcefully and doggedly, preventing it from being shut down. Thank you.

Finally, I’d like to take back something I said, something that cast a negative light on someone.

I apologized for seeming to make fun of Cursillo. I later read posts from Iloveangels that did exactly that. (“Cursillo is pitifully passe and it’s completely possible that its time as a fad is just up. Going to a cursillo is like wearing a mullet, saying GROOVY, and flashing the peace sign out car windows. It’s vintage 70-80s.”) Did I think her mockery out of line, or wish to upbraid her in any way? No.

According to Leroy Jethro Gibbs, character in NCIS whom some in this thread seem to emulate, “Never apologize. It’s a sign of weakness.” I tend to be overly scrupulous and err in this direction. I certainly did not receive an apology for a vicious personal attack aimed at me in this thread. I misread this thread as being about genuine love of God and love (iow, protection) of people. For many participants it wasn’t; it was about protecting their turf. More like a gang war.

 

[Nina237]

Hi! I’m new here and not sure where I should post this question. I’d like to make a Cursillo, however how can one do that when they are on call for work at all times? I’ve asked people in my Parish and the Cursillo office in my area and the answers ranged from ‘I don’t know’ to ‘I don’t think that’s possible.’ Can anyone give me a suggestion of what to do?
Nina

 

[gh4]

Hi! I’m new here and not sure where I should post this question. I’d like to make a Cursillo, however how can one do that when they are on call for work at all times? I’ve asked people in my Parish and the Cursillo office in my area and the answers ranged from ‘I don’t know’ to ‘I don’t think that’s possible.’ Can anyone give me a suggestion of what to do?
Nina

I doubt that you can go on a cursillo weekend if you have to be on call. They take your watch away (most, but not all) and it would be very disruptive if you were coming and going during the rollos or mass etc. You aren’t supposed to have a car there (you are taken to cursillo and returned home via your sponsor) and a plethora of other reasons that it wouldn’t work. They are on a schedule that is tight. The meals etc. are planned out for certain times etc.
No cell phones or beepers or any electronic gizmos allowed to be had by those who are on the weekend.
I also think you would get less out of it if you are sitting there waiting to be called away. And how rude would it be to get up in the middle of someone’s talk and leave?

Even though I am not a fan of cursillo by a long shot, I would have been even more unhappy if there had been someone there who was coming and going at her whim.

Not sure what you do, but I would think it would be best to plan on taking some vacation days if you want to go to cursillo, or find someone who can cover for you while you are gone Thurs. eve through Sunday eve.

 

[Nina237]

Thanks for your response. Although I would not have to leave at any point and could deal with things on a ‘break’ I guess it is a no go for me. Very sad about that.