Dangerous Catholics

[TheLittleLady]

who claim they are Catholics (and probably believe they are)

A person who was validly baptized in the Church IS a Catholic. They remain Catholic for eternity. Even if their politics, lifestyle are not what I want them to be, even if that person ends up in hell, they will be Catholic in hell.

What we need to do is stop kicking our brothers & sisters when we think the are wrong, we need to love them, pray for them, and remember that public words online may be read by that person. Reach out with love and encouragement.

 

[Taras_Bulba]

Jim Caviezel.

 

[Polak]

What we need to do is stop kicking our brothers & sisters when we think the are wrong, we need to love them, pray for them, and remember that public words online may be read by that person. Reach out with love and encouragement.

You think I am kicking them?

If they publicly espouse views as Catholics, clearly contrary to our faith, I think it’s a cause for concern. I am not looking in to their life, pointing at them and calling them sinners. I am simply saying, it’s one thing to sin, and it’s another to give sin a free pass, in public. What they are now doing is giving their mass audiences assurances than morally reprehensible behaviour is okay. Now, if they engage in that behaviour themselves, that’s one thing, but if you convince others to, that is another.

Let me put it to you another way. Say a man or woman told your child to do something you knew was wrong. Would you simply stand there, let him do it, and pray for him, or would you tell them not to do this and try to stop them doing it if possible?

 

[TheLittleLady]

I will refer you back to the answer in post # 14.

If it’s a politician, I can withhold my vote from them, assuming they are on a ticket in my district. Other than that, why should we have to spend all day long “admonishing” celebrities?

Again, if they are my personal friend, family member, guy I know from a parish group, fine…but we do not have the responsibility of “admonishing” the entire world of celebrity self-identified Catholics.

Admonishment is a very specific thing.

 

[Zach]

Since we will be admonished (I mean admonished in the general sense, not the specific Catholic canon sense) for admonishing them it’s best just not to vote for them, pray for them, and leave the rest up the their pastor and God.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Amen. Amen. Amen.

 

[StarMapp]

This is what I believe is partisan Catholicism. I believe as Catholics we hold our faith to be our proper environment which ensures we remain in the world and not of the world. I am conscience of the …here, but I’m not from here. I am if you will directing my life to the stimulas that this reality presents for my handling, and to better it. For that task I use the directives of the founding Leader of our true world. Every experience we find ourselves in while exiled here is to be scrutinized through that prism of faith. It matures, or obtains optical clarity, by the grace of God who hones our conscience if we prove to remain vigilant in making proper choices, some very difficult at times. We need to stand fast, and do what we can, and if we fail brush ourselves off and do better next time. These are what is termed as little crosses. We have all been tempted to save a friendship by forsaking truth, or to remain popular among the electoral crowd, or seek gain for temporary wealth or profit.

We are tempted to do the reverse, where the “party” or allegiance lies first with the republic, or it could be a fraternity, individual or collective, or belief of some form.

It is imperative that our Faith is the first context, so that from that viewpoint we can perfect our secondary allegiances. Every influence or decided choice must take a number and stand in line to obtain permission to be let loose in the world. God’s world is not deserving of any imperfection from me.

This is why if we are to perfect this world, Catholicism must be the life to live firstly as our principle goal, and from there, that template betters the nations to see. There only leaves for them to ask, “What IS that principle that we wish to emulate?.”

 

[po18guy]

Heads or tails. Same coin. Let those in a position to admonish do so. Our job, should we choose to accept it Mr. Phelps style, is to pray. Of course, I find that blathering is so much easier. I do not watch/read/listen to the media - choosing to break the chains of slavery to those who would dictate my thoughts. I don’t need the stomach acid. I have more than enough, thank you very much.

Why are we disputing? I was under the impression that life is short(?)

 

[Emeraldlady]

I know as a parent trying to bring my children up well as Catholics, it’s not the ‘bad’ Catholics who ignore the clear moral teachings of the Church that most worried me. It was those Catholics who use the teachings of the Church under the guise of devotion, to lead others away from the ultimate virtues of faith, hope and love demanded by Christ. They are the modern day Pharisees that Jesus reserved His strongest, condemnatory language for. Especially the most dangerous of all, those who undermine the teaching authority of the Pope.

That is the type that I have most ardently warned my kids to flee from.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I think what is more difficult is raising your family and their uncle decides to live with his girlfriend, and they have a baby. Or the oldest kid moves in with his girlfriend and the younger ones are waiting for some lightning bolt to come down and it doesn’t. Or maybe dad won’t go to church and does lawn work while mom is trying to take the kids to church without the support from dad.

For young kids to see close up that people who do not practice the faith can live their lives and nothing bad seems to happen is tough. God makes the sun shine on the good and the bad, so why put in all that effort and follow all those rules? Tough place to be in.

 

[TheLittleLady]

You think I am kicking them?

With our words we can build up, heal, comfort, encourage one another or with our words we can tear down, discourage, incite, ridicule, yes kick, one another.

Joe Biden, Michael Moore, Piers Morgan and others, who claim they are Catholics (and probably believe they are)

Imagine if any of these real, flesh and blood people, your brothers in Christ by virtue of baptism, read your words. Would they feel encouraged, built up, loved or would they feel attacked?

How would you feel if I publicly questioned your Catholicism? Would that edify you?

Always think “what would I say if this person were sitting next to me at Mass”.

 

[phil19034]

Would you consider well known people such as Joe Biden, Michael Moore, Piers Morgan and others, who claim they are Catholics (and probably believe they are) to be dangerous, because they are giving people a false image of what Catholicism is and accepting sin as being completely okay?

Yes and no.

I do not think they lead many Catholics away from the faith. But I do think they confuse non-Catholics.

For example: one of the major issues that Muslims have with Catholics is we (according to them) accept porn, immodesty, fornication, homosexual acts, etc,

In other words, they see Catholics not living upto Catholic teaching without punishment and therefore believe that we are actually tolerant of sin.

 

[halogirl]

Well said 123456

 

[Convert3]

For example: one of the major issues that Muslims have with Catholics is we (according to them) accept porn, immodesty, fornication, homosexual acts, etc,

In other words, they see Catholics not living upto Catholic teaching without punishment and therefore believe that we are actually tolerant of sin

And we could say the same back to them. Man is weak and we need to pray.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

because they are giving people a false image of what Catholicism is and accepting sin as being completely okay?

I think this part of your question hits the nail on the head. As someone else said, it is the image of Catholics and Church teaching they are giving people that is a problem.

things they say in public hold a lot of weight and are seen and heard by a lot of people.

very true. If they are speaking in public about their faith and voicing incorrectly what the Church teaches on certain issues, I do not see a problem speaking up when needed and when possible and saying that these public people are wrong.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

 

[otjm]

My personal experience is that not particularly well catechized but practicing Catholics can be and are lead astray by the collection of leftists noted by the OP; and what seems to be a significant part of the cause of such Catholics buying into what the leftists say is that they (the Catholics led astray) are dyed-in-the-wool Democrats who cannot hear what the other side is saying.

And that is not to say I want to give Republican Catholics a free pass; more that there do not seem to be the same number of rightist Catholic leaders clearly departing from Church teachings.

My base reference has more to do with how the poorly catechized Catholics (who are Democrats) respond to homosexuals; they cannot seem to grasp Church teaching of loving the sinner and hating the sin. It is a “right” now to sin… (sigh).

 

[tafan2]

Well, one never knows for sure, but I have been told that Clarence Thomas frequents daily mass on a semi regular basis and he gave a really good commencement address at Christendom College a couple of years ago that indicated he takes the faith fairly seriously.

As to celebrities, off the top of my head I think Jim Caviezal, Patricia Heaton, Martin Sheen, and Mark Walberg are rather serious about their Catholic faith. Perhaps they don’t all get everything right, but we can all suffer from that to varying degrees.

 

[Mountie]

There are certainly Catholics in the public sphere who hold positions contrary to the Catholic faith. Pray for them. Pray for those who are seeking Truth but are led astray by false teachings too. Perhaps they are led astray by these public figures. Perhaps these people are also led astray by our own sins. Pray for yourself too. When G.K. Chesterton was asked what the problem with the world was, he responded “I am.” I can’t act for others or force them to believe anything that I believe. But I have control over my own actions. I know that there are many times where I can be a better disciple of Christ.

Many times people are asked if they want to go to Heaven. This question is rather silly. Of course you want to go to Heaven. Everybody does. Even those who don’t believe in Heaven. Ask anyone, if you had a choice between eternal joy or eternal suffering, which would you choose. I think a better question is “who do you want to take to Heaven with you?” I try to be the best person that I can be in every interaction or action that I choose (at least I like to believe that I do), whether with family, friends, strangers, or even when I’m alone. And I often fall short. I sin every single day. There is not a day that goes by that I think, “wow, I was perfect today!” Rather, when I reflect on my day, I find areas where I struggled and I strive to improve in that area the next day. Hopefully, at the end of my life, by God’s infinite grace, I can enter Heaven, and upon my entry, I will know that I brought many others with me, including people that I had not know. But it all starts with me focusing on how I can be better. Maybe there is a point in time where I meet a fellow brother or sister who holds positions contrary to the faith and I will need to provide an account of why they are in error. But I cannot do that unless I am responsive to God’s call in my own life.

 

[upant]

Would you consider well known people such as Joe Biden, Michael Moore, Piers Morgan and others, who claim they are Catholics (and probably believe they are) to be dangerous, because they are giving people a false image of what Catholicism is and accepting sin as being completely okay?

not dangerous but they need to be handled according to church teaching and I think the policy of the bishop in South Carolina is the right procedure.