"Dark Night of the Soul"

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Were your ears burning, Dave?
Sirach, very good to see you again … and Alan too! I really haven’t been around here much lately but happened to pop by and saw this thread. And as it always seems to happen, words just filled my mind and the only way to get rid of them is to to type them down. Guess that’s my way of saying my ears were burning!

Hopefully something in there was of use.

Dave:)
 
Thanks DBT-Dave? I have kind of wondered about that and have really no language with which to inquire!

Part of my process is to be a “good student”. I want to know what and more importantly, how I am doing. Spiritual growth however, seems to have no grading system! Specifically I have had a lot of ups and downs recently, yet sense that I am being guided. Kind of like that wheat seed on rocky ground trying to find a way to get a rootlet into the soil and find water and a place to stay. It is like someone says, “try this” or “yes, that was OK”. and my spirit (soul) goes Ahhhhh. It goes better if I can keep myself out of the way. 🙂
 
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DBT:
  1. The “experience” of night is not so much at the time of prayer but, rather, at all our other times. We are continually brought face to face with our imperfections.
The growth in self-knowledge is probably the best indication of being in some form of the night, as we struggle to please Our Lord, but find ourselves with a great many imperfections. No wonder the saints would accuse themselves of being great sinners!
Anyone reading these works would be scratching their heads, saying, "If this saint believes s(he) is a sinner, then where does that leave ME? :eek:

But as we grow closer to God, the light increases and p(name removed by moderator)oints many of those thoughts that are displeasing to Him. I am honestly edified when I read about a few of these incidents in St. Faustina’s in her Diary. She wrote:

1802 "But when the day for confession came, I prepared a whole mass of those sins of which I was to accuse myself. However, in the confessional, God allowed me to accuse myself of only two imperfections, despite my efforts to make a confession according to what I had prepared. When I left the confessional, the Lord said to me, "My daughter, all those sins you intended to confess are not sins in My eyes; that is why I took away your ability to tell them."
 
The growth in self-knowledge is probably the best indication of being in some form of the night, as we struggle to please Our Lord, but find ourselves with a great many imperfections. No wonder the saints would accuse themselves of being great sinners!
Anyone reading these works would be scratching their heads, saying, "If this saint believes s(he) is a sinner, then where does that leave ME? :eek:

But as we grow closer to God, the light increases and p(name removed by moderator)oints many of those thoughts that are displeasing to Him. I am honestly edified when I read about a few of these incidents in St. Faustina’s in her Diary. She wrote:

1802 "But when the day for confession came, I prepared a whole mass of those sins of which I was to accuse myself. However, in the confessional, God allowed me to accuse myself of only two imperfections, despite my efforts to make a confession according to what I had prepared. When I left the confessional, the Lord said to me, "My daughter, all those sins you intended to confess are not sins in My eyes; that is why I took away your ability to tell them."
Hi Sirach -

Yes, in the context of this discussion, self-knowledge is the key to everything. It’s at these moments of Light I can say, to paraphrase Brother Lawrence, that “He treats me as a king and sits me at His table.”

And thank you very much for the quote from St. Faustina … it was very timely for me! Three times in the last year (from three different priests) it was “suggested :)” in confession that I confess on a weekly basis. Of course I resisted … precisely because so much of what I had to say was in the realm of imperfection and I was afraid of being misunderstood and tagged with the dreaded “S” word … scruples. Of course this was an unfounded fear … perhaps even the wiles of the evil one. So much harm came to me not following the advice I was given! The Light I recieved is that Jesus WANTS me to confess these imperfections and as a sign of His love I have not once ever heard boo from a priest about my unfounded fear. And more directly to your point, more than once I have found my intended mental list of imperfections somehow edited down on the fly to only that which needed to be said. It amazes me when that happens … so thank you so much for the reassuring words!

Perhaps a little too personal with this … but oh well!

BTW, happy Feast Day tomorrow!

Dave 🙂
 
…so much of what I had to say was in the realm of imperfection and I was afraid of being misunderstood and tagged with the dreaded “S” word … scruples. … The Light I received is that Jesus WANTS me to confess these imperfections and as a sign of His love I have not once ever heard boo from a priest about my unfounded fear. Dave 🙂
Dave, often times it is the personal sharing strikes a cord on another’s heart. The Light you received also confirms what I have been doing is what Jesus wants of me.

Mine too is in the realm of imperfection. It works well with my SD and my regular Confessor. But there was one time I could neither get to my SD (far away in another city) nor my other confessor (25 minutes away), so I went to our new Vicar. After hearing me, he seemed irritated and told me I was scruple, seeing sin where there was no sin. This made me realize if the priest does not know me and my “working toward holiness”, confessing imperfection could easily be thought as scrupulous. You are very blessed not once ever heard a boo. Now I make sure I either confess to my SD or my regular confessor. They are both great to hear my expression of my self-knowledge and help me receive God’s abundant grace . I am very blessed too.
 
Now I make sure I either confess to my SD or my regular confessor.
This is good advice … and I wish I could follow it. But I don’t have a SD and in my parish we’re very fortunate to have 3 full time priests and a regular Vincentian visiting priest. So finding consistency in confession done weekly is difficult. They rotate 8AM daily mass and confession so it could be up to 4 weeks before I get the same priest back. This inconsistency, of course, fed my unfounded fears … nobody really knows me. But they all seem to sense the same things about me, regardless. All things considered, though, too many priests is a good problem to have!!!
I am very blessed too.
That I know 🙂

Dave:)
 
Seeing this is the eve of the Solemnity of St. Teresa, it would be good to note that being misunderstood in confession was an important part of the Dark Night as she experienced it. Fears of being unable to express onself and explain God’s many favors in a way that makes sense in all matters mystical are many. Perhaps the greatest fear is self-deception … which is compounded if one’s confessor is not well versed (or lacks personal experience) in these areas.
 
Anyone reading these works would be scratching their heads, saying, "If this saint believes s(he) is a sinner, then where does that leave ME? :eek:
St Theresa of Avila, comes to mind with a considerable use of “wicked”. 🙂
 
St Theresa of Avila, comes to mind with a considerable use of “wicked”. 🙂
That she does! 😃

OTOH, I find it helpful that she had an equally prolific use of the word “determination.”
I would imagine that’s what made her a saint.
 
In one of my favorite classics that is out of print, the author talks about the dark night as a “tunnel experience.” His words:
It is essential that we allow God to strip us of our dependency on feelings. To accomplish that, God takes us through what may be called a tunnel experience. In the tunnel there is no feeling. It is dark all around and I say, “Lord, are you still with me?” No answer. But I do have my flickering candle-lamp. “Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, a light unto my path.” So there it is, God’s Word. I’m going to have to learn to trust God’s Word, regardless of how I feel.

What if I panic? I’ve been in tunnels and panicked and found the Lord right next to me asking, “Did you call?”
“Yes Lord. I just wanted to be sure You meant it when you said you wouldn’t leave me.”
“Of course, I’m here. I’ll reconfirm My presence to you so you’ll feel better.”

But what happens now? The tunnel must be extended, because what God wanted to accomplish in my life was interrupted by my panic at the absence of feeling. Ther are some who are unwilling to go through the tunnel. They panic halflway through: “Lord, please, I don’t feel spiritual any more. I want to feel you, Lord. I want to back out of this faith-walk.”

Once you come through the tunnel, there is new light on the other side, a deeper understanding of God’s Word, a stronger faith, and with it, responsibility for what we’ve learned.
While I have not been in a tunnel in ages, I did drive through a horrible fog in the middle of the day, which made it impossible to see the next street, the next red light, or anything else in front or behind me. I think it was an analogy God used to show me that, despite my fearful inability to see but a few feet ahead, there was always just enough light to drive to the next block. I liken the dark night to living in the present with moment-to-moment dependency on God with pure faith and trust in His loving providence.
 
Seeing this is the eve of the Solemnity of St. Teresa, it would be good to note that being misunderstood in confession was an important part of the Dark Night as she experienced it. Fears of being unable to express oneself and explain God’s many favors in a way that makes sense in all matters mystical are many. Perhaps the greatest fear is self-deception … which is compounded if one’s confessor is not well versed (or lacks personal experience) in these areas.
I have been pondering what you said above. If I understand it correctly, I think the fact of being misunderstood in confession became part of the Dark Night to Teresa is because her unique mystical experiences could not be understood by her confessor who did not experience what she has experienced. Therefore, the lack of identification and affirmation of her mystical experiences brought the fear of self-deception, thus became part of the Dark Night for Teresa. Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

While I have no worry about expressing any mystical experience in confession since there is none, I do express myself in depth for the self knowledge the Holy Spirit brought to my attention. And I find it fruitful to be brutally honest and transparent in front of the persona Christi, though it does make myself quite vulnerable.
 
Seeing this is the eve of the Solemnity of St. Teresa, it would be good to note that being misunderstood in confession was an important part of the Dark Night as she experienced it. Fears of being unable to express onself and explain God’s many favors in a way that makes sense in all matters mystical are many. Perhaps the greatest fear is self-deception … which is compounded if one’s confessor is not well versed (or lacks personal experience) in these areas.
Yes, I can see that a lack of consolation in the confessional (in Persona Christi) can be a big part of a dark night…did she give up trying to explain things?
 
We have spoken about the tendency to commit many imperfections, but what jolted me this morning as I thought about St. Teresa was her explanation concerning the very last mansion - AFTER the dark night. Chapter 4, section 3:
Nor should it pass through your minds that, since these souls have such determination and strong desires not to commit any imperfection for anything on earth, they fail to commit many imperfections, and even sins. Advertently, no, for the Lord must give souls such as these very particular help against such a thing. I mean venials, for from what these souls can understand, they are free from mortal sins, although not immune. That they might have some sins they don’t know about is no small torment to them.
They also suffer torment in seeing souls go astray.
How humbling this is, to realize that the holiest among us who may have already passed, or are going through the trials of the dark night, [tunnel, fog, whatever we call it] are still capable of committing venial sins, and have many imperfections. How kindly we should esteem others in our thoughts and judgments. We cannot even rid ourselves of failings, so how can we expect another to do be free of them? This may be the problem I’ve seen with some folks who cannot believe someone is a saint, due to the biographies that depict some of their faults. Yes, I’ve seen it even here at CAF.

May God give us patience and help to lovingly bear with our neighbor’s failings.
 
I have been pondering what you said above. If I understand it correctly, I think the fact of being misunderstood in confession became part of the Dark Night to Teresa is because her unique mystical experiences could not be understood by her confessor who did not experience what she has experienced. Therefore, the lack of identification and affirmation of her mystical experiences brought the fear of self-deception, thus became part of the Dark Night for Teresa. Please let me know if my understanding is correct.
Hi Inlight -

Yes, St. Teresa had many difficulties in confession … and in being misunderstood in general. In short, she was often given bad advice … advice she followed none the less out of obedience. Hence the Dark Night effect. So she came to greatly prize those whom she called the “learned men.”

And yes her difficulties were often about things like the meaning behind her visions and navigating the cross-currents of the various factions within the Order and broader Church … those who wanted to help her found her houses and those who sought to thwart her. But the things we’re talking about are no less mystical in their own right … but in the “ordinary way.” With Teresa, in particular, it’s easy to lose sight of that. Remember, self-knowledge in the manner we’ve discussed is infused … passively received. Very much a gift. And it’s very easy to be misunderstood when discussing such things … in the confessional and elsewhere … on these forums and in Carmel community.

So when I read the writings of Sts. Teresa, John, Therese et al … it’s good to remind myself that the things they describe might be of a higher order of magnitude than what I experience … because of the special mission they were given to the Church. They’re Doctors after all. I’m pretty darn sure I’m “just” meant to be a regular ‘ole run of the mill saint: plain vanilla, no sprinkles. 🙂 But the parallels ARE there … and mystical in their own right. Prayer states and stages … nights of both the active and passive variety … they’re meant for everyone. We just might taste them to a lesser degree.

And that reminds me of something St. Therese said in Story of a Soul (or was it Pauline?): It doesn’t matter if we are a cup or thimble … if we are full we’ll all be happy. 🙂

Dave 🙂
 
St Teresa wrote that if you find a good confessor, hang on to him for dear life.

My former confessor was such a priest. Unfortunately he retired and moved out to Arizona.

I sure do miss him!

I praise God that my dryness ended yesterday. Felt his presence deeply as I prayed the LOTH.

Jim
 
And that reminds me of something St. Therese said in Story of a Soul (or was it Pauline?): It doesn’t matter if we are a cup or thimble … if we are full we’ll all be happy. 🙂
And for some of us who are on the way, half FULL is far better than half empty.

 
St Teresa wrote that if you find a good confessor, hang on to him for dear life.

My former confessor was such a priest. Unfortunately he retired and moved out to Arizona.

I sure do miss him!

I praise God that my dryness ended yesterday. Felt his presence deeply as I prayed the LOTH.
Thank you, Lord! Maybe St. Teresa had a hand in that, Jim, since yesterday was the vigil of her feast day. I found her help last week in answer to a troubling personal problem when I read Ch. 6 of Foundations. Isn’t it a blessing to have these precious moments?
 
Thank you, Lord! Maybe St. Teresa had a hand in that, Jim, since yesterday was the vigil of her feast day. I found her help last week in answer to a troubling personal problem when I read Ch. 6 of Foundations. Isn’t it a blessing to have these precious moments?
Today is also my Birthday.

Teresa and I share the day in celebration. 🙂

Jim
 
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