Dating a potential non-virgin

[blackforest]

Do you demand to know all of this on the first date?

Also, what are your deal-breakers? A dream of emigrating to Australia you can usually dig for over appetizers with a casual, “So where do you see yourself in ten years?”

I’d wait on things like: “Hey, how many women have you slept with? Do you masturbate? Consume pornography? Do you agree with EWTNs List of Non-Negotiables? Did you agree to this date because you might want to marry me some day?”

 

[AdamP88]

How should I go about asking her?

Don’t. It should come up naturally.

• Is it acceptable to break up if she has, in fact, had premarital sex?

Up to you. But it seems like a pretty stupid reason to lose someone you love though.

1. If she is not a virgin, how could I potentially get over this fact?

Don’t make a big deal out of it for starters.

 

[T432]

I don’t demand to know anything. I’m saying what I would ideally like. You don’t have to agree.

I don’t want to know how many woman a guy has slept with. I have not said I want to know any of the other questions either.

My dealbreakers are none of your business and likewise yours aren’t mine.

For someone I would like to date I would like to know another’s dealbreakers as soon as possible.

I’d like an overview, not someone’s personal secrets. So for example a guy could say: I’m not looking to raise someone else’s children, I want to marry a virgin etc. The big things. Nothing more than that.

I think it’s mature to chat about those things to see if you are both compatible. I’m not saying sit down and interrogate if that is what you think?! Just a chat. Most people I’m attracted to tend to be able to share their feelings and are good communicators. They just tend to be naturally open.

I mentioned the Australian example as this is something that could be something the other wouldn’t like to do but still the guy would consider marrying you anyways regardless. It’s not a non negotiable.

I don’t want to date a guy who for whatever reason would not consider me off the bat as a potential wife in the future. I dont want to get emotionally attached to someone when there is NO possibility of it working out.

Not sure what the problem is with knowing someone’s dealbreakers early on! Or it being controversial to have that as a preference. We are all different I guess.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Problem is it just demonstrates a total lack of social awareness. If I was on a first date with someone and they started grilling me about my sexual history, it would be a dealbreaker for me. Even if we were totally on the same page about sexual ethics, I wouldn’t want to continue hanging out with someone that tactless and socially unaware.

A lot of people nowadays solve this stuff by simply having long conversations over some chat app and discussing everything about their lives before they meet in person. Often people who do this will lead with the information they think is most likely to put the other person off, so that if the other person is going to stop talking to them, it happens before they’ve invested a lot of time. As someone who used to spend a lot of time in chat apps about 15 or 20 years ago, people whom I wasn’t even planning to date would share all kinds of super-personal past history within about the first five conversations.

I don’t think this was even totally limited to chat apps. I remember almost 40 years ago it was not uncommon for people who were both part of our local music n’ arts scene to know everything about each other’s pasts, including sex lives, via mutual friends before they even went out for a pizza together. Whatever beans didn’t get spilled by gabby gossippers was usually put out front on the first couple dates for the same reason people bring it up on chat now; they don’t want to invest a lot of time and then have the other person run away screaming over some zinger. I pretty much gave up on the idea of privacy by the time I was 18 and often thought I should just put my whole personal life on a billboard, where people would likely embellish it anyway.

 

[Anicette]

I don’t justify porn and consider it as destructive.

Just said it is too much to compare masturbation, when many men had engaged at a point of their life. Of course, better is to having get out of this possible habit before marriage and definititely knowing to have self control will often be a need in a marriage.

I can’t disagree more with your view of premarital sex and several partners before marriage. There is no virtue to having slept with anyone else than our husband or wife. People don’t grow or mature from it. Experience in sexuality is valorised by the today’s world, even if it mean try and discard any other person has a used product if she don’t match the need anymore (because it was sex outside of marriage is).
But in no way it is God’s will nor what the Church encourage us to follow.

Just to add- if someone is a virgin it doesn’t mean that she or he live in a fantasie world filled of pornography and erotical books. It is a false problem. We can be continent and virtuous.

 

[Rau]

I don’t want to date a guy who for whatever reason would not consider me off the bat as a potential wife in the future.

I’m guessing you’re not 18 years old. In my view young people dating do so because it’s a pleasant experience. Nothing wrong with that. They both take some risks. If one is a little more advanced down the road in seeking a spouse than the other, one or both might suffer some disappointment. That’s life. They probably don’t have much of a conscious awareness of what makes a good husband/wife - it’s part of what their experiences through dating might teach them.

In my view, it will likely be inappropriate to raise highly personal questions (of the type raised on this thread) in the early dates regardless of how curious one might be, or how key they might be to judging “suitability for marriage”.

 

[Rau]

A lot of people nowadays solve this stuff by simply having long conversations over some chat app and discussing everything about their lives before they meet in person.

The online format (parties may be anonymous at this point) may be an Avenue where certain matters can be raised at the outset that would be less polite face to face.

 

[T432]

No, I’m not 18. I’m a woman in my 30s. Age does actually make a difference. That is a good point.

 

[blackforest]

My dealbreakers are none of your business and likewise yours aren’t mine.

Fair enough, but I when you jumped into this conversation to disagree with me, I wasn’t talking about you and whatever your dealbreakers are. I was addressing the OP and his concerns about non-virginity.

Either way, there are appropriate topics for a first date, and there are some to avoid.

Not sure what the problem is with knowing someone’s dealbreakers early on!

There are a few problems with it, actually. First, it depends on the “dealbreakers” and the context.

Second, it bears repeating that there’s no need to judge “suitability for marriage” on a first date. That’s a lot of pressure to put on the encounter. Please see The Dating Project if you haven’t already. https://www.thedatingprojectmovie.com/

Catholics go through a rigorous screening process prior to marriage to make sure that any serious “dealbreakers” are outed before the wedding. Even that’s not a guarantee of a successful marriage.

Also, I’ve been married for over 20 years. In retrospect, I’m glad that I got past some of what I considered “dealbreakers” in my youth because we’ve both grown and changed together.

 

[T432]

@blackforest I actually jumped in when you was debating with another poster not the OP.

Its great that you got over the dealbreakers. Some people class dealbreakers as stone cold never evers and some people view deal breakers as preferences and work past them. So, they aren’t really dealbreakers but preferences.

If you meet someone who’s deal breakers are non negotiable. I think then it’s kind and charitable to let their date know as soon as possible. Just my personal opinion like I said. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think I said first date just as soon as possible.

If a dealbreaker is a no go and there is no chance of the relationship going as far as marriage prep because of it, it needs to be put out there as soon as possible I think.

If it’s a preference type dealbreaker then sure take your time, see how it goes and see if you can work through it.

 

[rosejmj]

I did not say it was good or better to not be a virgin. However, a habit of masturbation or porn is much worse than past sexual partners in my opinion. And even though you consider it sinful, I’d say masturbation and pornography use is usually more self-centered and selfish than sexual relations with a person especially if that person was a previous boyfriend or girlfriend and not just a hookup meaning there was probably some focus on the other.

If I considered losing ones virginity a dealbreaker it would only make sense to consider masturbation and pornography use a dealbreaker as well even if that was in the past. The problem is that there are very very few people who have never engaged in masturbation at some point in their life

 

[Anicette]

If I considered losing ones virginity a dealbreaker it would only make sense to consider masturbation and pornography use a dealbreaker as well even if that was in the past. The problem is that there are very very few people who have never engaged in masturbation at some point in their life

That’s why to consider past masturbation as a deal breaker as it is for non virginity does not hold a lot of sense.
And anyway it is not farfetched or wrong or stupid to want to avoid a person who as not touched someone else. Experience in that field can become a burden for many reasons, and the other person will be impacted in many way.
In any scenario possible at the minimum they will not discover all together.

 

[rosejmj]

It does make sense. But both are kind of unreasonable. And from my experience, the main thing that comes out of people having previous partners is -experience. Which isn’t necessarily a negative in my opinion. I’d definitely be scared of marrying a virgin and then finding out he is too uptight about sex and it’s more mechanical than anything. I’d honestly think some exposure to it from a non religious perspective and in a loving relationship would make it better within a marriage. I have yet to see any negatives unless someone gets jealous easily in which case any previous dating would probably make the person feel insecure.

However, I have seen the negatives in porn and masturbation habits in men and those I know who had those habits were overall less respectful of women and desiring to do almost degrading things in the bedroom with women and were selfish and entitled in relationships and probably in the bedroom as well.

 

[Anicette]

No, definitely it is not unreasonable to except a virgin spouse. It is even what is excepted and what all would come in mariage if we all followef the divine’s law.

It is only otherwise because of our sins, because of our fallen nature and because of the society current’s values. Having those sorts of discussion between faithfull catholics where virginity being reduced to ad best to an unimportant addition and wish to save each other for a marriage as machist would be unkinkable some decades ago.

We are only here now because of the divorcing between the consequences -mainly procreation- and sexuality. Otherwise, in any traditional society, loosing your virginity with someone you will break up after will probably mean that the woman will bear the consequences for at least nine months. So a marriage will follow, or the child will be abandonned or the woman will struggling to raise him alone.
It will not a breakup for a grass greener after, but all a drama.

Women had more conscious at that, so they will try to save themselves.
Today to approove this culture also mean that we condone many more sins against procreation.

 

[blackforest]

I actually jumped in when you was debating with another poster not the OP.

It was all in reference to the topic at hand, not unknown dealbreakers of other CAFers. But no harm done - we’ll move on.

I think then it’s kind and charitable to let their date know as soon as possible.

Once again, it’s impossible to generalize. I can only speak to the OP and his case. “Hey, just so you know, I won’t marry you unless you’re a virgin” are not words to disclose “early on.” Fortunately, I think the OP has gotten past that. But I’d think that during these “early on” phases, you can be much more discreet and respectful and learn through mutual conversation about how faithful you both are to Catholic teaching.

Still on the topic of this thread, here’s another hint: People who disagree about abstinence before marriage are going to want sex from their date. Early on.

If a dealbreaker is a no go and there is no chance of the relationship going as far as marriage prep because of it, it needs to be put out there as soon as possible I think.

You do you. If you’re single and dating, let us know how it works.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It’s a lot easier to fall in love with the IDEA of a woman than with a real woman. The latter have flaws and pasts and faults and even sometimes get the flu and throw up in the car.

I think insistence on virginity is an aspect of the IDEA of a woman. Without it, a real woman does not vaporize and turn into a mist, because she’s real. But as an IDEA she does.

 

[T432]

I think we should just agree to disagree. I think we probably have the same amount of time of relationship experience nearly. So, it’s just a matter of opinion. Found your last comment to be condescending to be honest but always good to debate.

 

[blackforest]

It is even what is excepted and what all would come in mariage if we all followef the divine’s law.

My husband and I were neither Catholic nor virgins when we married. It didn’t destroy our marriage. I promise. I’m all for waiting for marriage as the Church teaches, but it’s senseless to bemoan couples who didn’t.

It’s a lot easier to fall in love with the IDEA of a woman than with a real woman.

This is a great post, thank you. It’s also a reminder of how when set to high, our expectations of others can be dehumanizing.

 

[Anicette]

I’d definitely be scared of marrying a virgin and then finding out he is too uptight about sex and it’s more mechanical than anything. I’d honestly think some exposure to it from a non religious perspective and in a loving relationship would make it better within a marriage. I have yet to see any negatives unless someone gets jealous easily in which case any previous dating would probably make the person feel insecure.

Here we have the reason.
Being a virgin is not only not necessary and ridiculous, but more precisely: scary.

Scary because of what?
because the person have made no proof that he is “good enough” or “interested enough” or “have enough knowledge” to satisfy his wife or her wife sexually speaking.

It’s all about pleasure…

I will answer that you are not the only one to have this fear. It is somewhat common (at what extend, i don’t know) for youngs people who have not been married and built their life yet.

It is possible to find someone that is not interested in sexuality. But mostly it is a fear, and that fear leads us often to poor choices. (when it is irrational, not because we fear Gods’ commands). Years after, we may feefs that it was stupid.

I remember that you have said previousely that you are struggling with your catholic faith, so it’s possible that you have already make others choices or what I say will not make you questionned more.

When I was younger and didn’t know a lot of life. I had fears and false ideas. Some like yours; some differents.

And finally I see now that I was mostly lead by fear. And irrational fear. It is the worst driver ever. Because,

When one is not a virgin, it will lead much more problems than It may fixed.

Having a relationship and thinking of a marriage when one feels that catholicism is the most important think and the other is unbeliever is the the worst unbalanced thing ever. One or both will have to make compromises at least with sexuality, which is wrong or sinful.

Being married with a secular man may be a cross. basically the risk is very high to draw apart more and more and being in disagrement with everything. It may become the unhappinest marriage. it basically mean that both will not have the life they want with the choices they would want to make and don’t (want) understand the other.

Sexuality is important. But the most important part is to be confortable in our values. The rest almost always follow if there is love and respect. But it is not the most important part of a marriage. It can be a mirage if we thank previousely it was.

Life can be hard without adding presonal problems.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

It’s a lot easier to fall in love with the IDEA of a woman than with a real woman. The latter have flaws and pasts and faults and even sometimes get the flu and throw up in the car.

I think insistence on virginity is an aspect of the IDEA of a woman. Without it, a real woman does not vaporize and turn into a mist, because she’s real. But as an IDEA she does.

Very well said. It’s easy to love a hyper-idealized woman who is always sweet and demure, a picture of modesty, and has the body of a Victoria’s Secret model. You never have disagreements, she never calls you on your flaws. But do you want a relationship with a flesh and blood woman or just an alabaster doll that you put on display?