Dating a potential non-virgin

[Lara]

You should know what a straw man fallacy is. In this case, there was never any mention of crappy wife vs. good wife. He’s choosing between a good wife who is a virgin or a good wife who is not a virgin. You’ve already said, his girlfriend can do better, but he’s a virgin and he’s sincere so you have no basis on which to say this unless we learn more about him. That WAS an ad hominem attack. Textbook case.

 

[Bernoulli]

For comparison, if I recall correctly “Handbook of Moral Theology” by Dominic M. Prummer, O.P. (1922) stated that someone discerning marriage would have to disclose by themselves if they are not a virgin, so that their potential spouse can consider it.

 

[lwest]

I wasn’t insinuating that any virgin would be a crappy wife or any nonvirgin be a good wife. Nor should it be assumed that any nonvirgin would be a bad wife. I was just pointing out that a woman can make mistakes, repent, turn her life around and be a wonderful wife and mother. I see that you don’t get that. That’s ok. I’m not going to insult you for it. The guy asked for opinions and I shared mine. I said nothing contrary to Catholic Teaching and my opinions don’t need your approval. And is that ‘Handbook of Moral Theology’ official Teaching of the Church? Because, if it’s not, I owe it no obedience. Just curious, though, does it also require that a man reveal all of his past sins to a future wife? And if you’re using 1922 as a basis of how relationships should work, I would imagine that women taking out the garbage or men changing a diaper would also be (gasp) horrid. And that’s your business but please…stop judging everything around y ou using a 1922 book that isn’t even binding.

 

[T432]

T432:

If he said for example, I wouldn’t like to raise someone else’s children or I’m looking for a virgin

To expand on this…what would a person say if she was raped? The definition of virginity can be tricky (e.g. I have a friend who have answered something along the lines of “Weeell…uh…I technically am.” which leads to questioning about her hesitation. Also side note, she was eventually dumped because he didn’t consider her as an actual virgin and was more focused on the fact that there’s sexual contact vs chastity)

It’s more about social etiquette, i think. Body count is such a private matter and while it seems practical, it’s not polite. While I don’t care if some people choose to do this, I would hope it never becomes a social norm.

I think in regards to your friends situation it was something the guy couldn’t get over and reflects on him and not her. He placed virginity as a stone cold deal breaker regardless of the situation. Do I personally think that is wrong? Absolutely. Is it her fault? No. Is that his choice? Yes. To be honest it sounds like she deserved someone who doesn’t have that mindset.

Just as a side note I think when someone tells you their deal breakers you can ask questions back such as would you date a non virgin who was raped? and then give a response that doesnt go in to details such as its been nice to get to know you but i don’t think we are a great match. I wish you all the best.

I don’t believe you need to go into personal details.

 

[Lara]

And if you’re using 1922 as a basis of how relationships should work, I would imagine that women taking out the garbage or men changing a diaper would also be (gasp) horrid. And that’s your business but please…stop judging everything around y ou using a 1922 book that isn’t even binding.

Bernoulli is not judging everything around him by a 1922 book. Straw man argument. I felt the post was useful.

A woman can make mistakes, as you say, but very few people here are willing to even admit that her mistake could cost her in a way that could affect a man’s interest in her, or damage her in any of the myriad ways it can damage her. Denise wanted me to point those things out, but they seem obvious to me. It would take a long time to write out those effects.

All things being equal, Billy is the most correct in pointing out the benefits of marrying a virgin. As Catholics, we need to teach children why the Church believes as it does.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

Its funny how we are all different. I’d personally respect a guy who was upfront about his dealbreakers quickly. I think it shows respect to me , my time and shows that the guy doesn’t want to lead me on.

If he said for example, I wouldn’t like to raise someone else’s children or I’m looking for a virgin. I would not be the right woman for him so I would warmly wish him well with his request to find a spouse.

He could provide an application form with all of his prerequisites and use Excel Solver to score you:

“Have you ever had vaginal intercourse?”

“Have you ever, even once, tried any of the following: cocaine, marijuana, smoking, vaping?”

“Have you ever not honored your mother or father?”

“In a given year, approximately how many times do you use the Lord’s name in vain: _____?”

Come on. This is not how relationships are built.

 

[lwest]

And she could give him an application, too. In fact, isn’t this how dating sites work? Maybe there’s something to that. And…people never lie. And…a woman can be a ‘technical virgin’ while engaging in all types of sexual activity. He should probably ask about that, too.

 

[lwest]

Sure there are benefits to marrying a virgin. I’m sorry you think it’s a ‘straw man’ argument that he discuss these things right up front. I’m sorry you think it’s ok to lead on a nonvirgin…but she’s a nonvirgin, damaged goods…who cares how she’s treated, right? Only virgins are worthy of being treated with dignity and respect. And if she was a rape victim and her hymen wasn’t intact…she’s still damaged goods? And I never said we shouldn’t teach our children what the Church believes. Kids don’t always listen, do they…I think it’s unfortunate that someone who has repented and been forgiven by God has to wear a scarlet “A” around for the rest of her life. So much for forgiveness and mercy…and humility…and…to reiterate…there are other mortal sins out there besides premarital sex that can send you to hell for eternity. Why is premarital sex the only one to worry about? And…no one is without sin…not even you. If I remember the Bible correctly, wasn’t Mary Magdelene one of Jesus’ favorites? She had a past.

 

[DeniseNY]

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-does-the-church-teach-about-virginity

In his treatise on the subject, St. Augustine calls virginity a “greater gift” than marriage, but warns virgins against looking down on non-virgins, especially those whose call to marriage gave life to the virgins. Augustine saw the two states as complementary:

> [Indeed] in them [who married] were being prepared and brought forth future things, which now we see fulfilled in a marvelous and effectual manner, whose married life also was prophetic: whence, not after the wonted custom of human wishes and joys, but by the very deep counsel of God, in certain of them fruitfulness obtained to be honored, in certain also barrenness to be made fruitful.

Calling people “damaged goods” is certainly looking down on them.

And it’s interesting when these discussions come up, it’s never a matter of lost virginity having anything to do with God, but usually the OP feeling they personally have somehow been slighted by a potential partner.

 

[T432]

I actually am pretty comfortable chatting and going into deep conversation with people and am attracted to people who are honest and do the same. I do appreciate people being honest with their dealbreakers so I know where I stand. I think I’m allowed to have that opinion and live by that. I’m not saying anyone else has to.

I’m not sure why those questions and your comments. I’m not saying I have a tick chart of questions . Thought that was with respect rather rude.

 

[blackforest]

I don’t think that not covering every last personal detail on each other on the first date is “leading on” anybody. On the contrary, it shows healthy boundaries.

Nobody has to make up their mind on the first date whether or not to stay together, and nobody is obligated to divulge all of their secret “deal-breakers” right at the beginning. There’s no need to rush and determine if this person is The One.

 

[rosejmj]

too.

A habit of masturbation or pornography is definitely more off putting and I think more likely to lead to problems in marriage and problems with sexual compatibility as well, due to how easy it is to mistake porn for reality and seek out more and more hardcore porn.

Having had sex with someone else before we started dating is much less off putting and at least he has a better understanding of what it really is and how to engage with a partner and not be solely focused on oneself and fantasies

 

[lwest]

I’m just thinking of some nonvirgin who thinks there’s a future when he would dump her in a heartbeat upon learning she’s a nonvirgin. I consider it leading someone on. You don’t. And such is life…

 

[Rau]

I wonder if the OP is still on the thread? He didn’t answer the question way back of how it is he comes to think she is not a virgin…

 

[lwest]

I used the term ‘damaged goods’ because that’s how the OP seemed to perceive anyone not as pure as him.

 

[rosejmj]

I agree. There is almost an obsession with virginity and sex as if it’s the most important part of a marriage and of a person. And it’s the same people who call out the secular culture for being obsessed with sex. Premarital sex is not the worst sin at all. It also doesn’t just change you to your core. A virgin is not necessarily any holier and not necessarily going to make a better spouse

 

[blackforest]

Holy strawman, batman. I never said not to discuss it. Just not on the first date. You always take a risk in romance that you’re going to learn something about someone you’re dating and have to break up as a result. Yes, that could mean dealing with a creep who leads you on. That doesn’t have to mean the First Date = Battleground Zero to hash all of this stuff out.

 

[Inbonum]

A virgin is not necessarily any holier and not necessarily going to make a better spouse

They probably think that virginty is proof that marriage will be successfull and that their spouse will be bounded just to them. Not so connected and logical.
I remember read some article how body “remembers” first intercourse (through hormons and emotions) and people cannot forget that first person. An article was used as proof why virgins are more trusted.
But I don’t agree it is proof or whatever author wanted to say with it because we are not animals who act without free will. We have choices and our bodies do not act without our mind and will involved, like we are robots with written commands until we die.
We have free will to chose or not to chose that we will act according to promises given at wedding, live in accordance to conscience.

Except that, people are not properly cathecised and have wrong mindset.

 

[lwest]

I hear ya. In fact, I heard of one virgin who, after marrying, thought sex was so awesome, she started sleeping with everyone.

 

[T432]

See to me that would be more like finding out the guy has always dreamt of emigrating to Australia and would like to go by the time he’s 40 for example.

To me in the ideal situation I’d like to know the non negotiable dealbreakers very early on. I feel like I can pull up my big girl girlie pants and deal with it. I don’t want to start dating a guy who would never be interested in dating me for marriage.