Dating a potential non-virgin

[1ke]

If he is dating her with an eye to marriage, it is 100% his business if she has had sexual relations before

Let me repeat. See post #1: “I just recently started dating a girl…”

Not. His. Business.

Whether someone agrees with those reasons or think those reasons are stupid is immaterial if they are a deeply held belief of someone else.

See my post: “your deal breakers are your deal breakers”.

 

[Patri]

I think it is his business, recent or not, he is dating her. Another thing is when it is appropriate to ask. To the OP, I would value more the point she is at now, that she is close to God and is prayerful. Mistakes are made by all of us and God forgives us constantly. I understand that chastity is important but not being a virgin does not mean that the person is promiscuous. I advice you look at the totality of her person and don’t focus on something that if it happened, she might well want to erase from her mind.

 

[Beryllos]

seems that she takes her faith seriously, enjoys discussing Catholic Theology, and even makes a point to go to confession regularly…

This is excellent.

It sounds like the relationship is very new and at the getting to know you stage. It would too early to ask about her virginity unless it truly is unacceptable to you, in which case you should let her know of your intolerance and let her go!

On the other hand, if it’s not a deal-breaker, I urge you to be patient. If she brings up the topic, that’s perfect. If a conversation naturally leads to it, you could ask.

Whatever the circumstance, charity is key. If she’s not a virgin, don’t pout or be offended, don’t be condescending, don’t ask any questions about it, and don’t let her go into unnecessary details. Do love, respect, and honor her.

 

[1ke]

I think it is his business, recent or not, he is dating her. Another thing is when it is appropriate to ask.

I disagree.

If he only wants to date virgins, then he can make that statement and she can select out if she is (a) not a virgin or (b) not OK with his stance on the matter.

She is under no obligation to disclose personal details to him either way, if they are just starting to date, she can just go on her way, or not.

 

[scousekiwi]

Is it acceptable to break up if she has, in fact, had premarital sex?

If you are just “dating” (I’ve never really known what that term means, but everybody seems to use it these days), you can break up for any reason or even for no reason at all. Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but if you are seriously considering breaking up with this woman because you think that she might possibly have previously had sex with another person, I can’t help wondering whether it might not be best for her if you were to break up with her now so that she can meet somebody else who isn’t going to worry about whether or not she is a virgin.

 

[Usige]

Let me repeat. See post #1: “I just recently started dating a girl…”

Not. His. Business.

It goes to his intent for dating in the first place. If marriage is not on the radar and it just dating for companionship I might agree, but because he is asking questions about impact to a potential marriage it seems that marriage is not off the radar. It does not matter if it’s been 3 years or 3 days if it raises concern about a potential future marriage

Prudence might say it is better to wait until she feels marriage is on the radar too, but it doesn’t change the fact that it appears OP does have concerns about future marriage. Once the concern is raised it is his business as it will impact him and how he approaches the relationship going forward

. If it damages the relationship then it is what it is. If it’s a deal breaker for him now then get the question out of the way so that it doesn’t become a cancer that gnaws away and undermines the relationship.

If they have already discussed feelings about premarital sex then it could be as simple as OP stating that he would never marry or date someone who had been sexually intimate before.

I am speaking from having dealt with a handful of cases the past several months for petions for declaration of nullity and during marriage prep where people didn’t speak until they were already down the road to marriage and felt they couldn’t slam on the breaks. If they had discussed the issues while dating it would have been much less messy.

I just get tired of seeing people here saying “don’t worry”, “God forgave her so you should too”, or “it doesn’t matter” and then the clergy having to deal with the mess when they end up with the fallout from those unresolved issues. If it’s a concern it needs to be addressed and people need to stop saying to kick the can down the road or sweep it under the rug. Problems are not like fine wine, they don’t improve with age.

 

[Patri]

Exactly! The “not your business” does not seem like an answer to give. She is not his friend, he is dating her and he seems to have marriage on his mind regarding dating.

 

[Pattylt]

Another possibility is that when you ask, regardless of whether she answers yes, no or none of your business, is that your desire to know this will be a deal breaker for her. In other words, your feelings of importance on the virginity of anyone makes you less than desirable by her criteria. Just a risk you’ll have to take.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you are just “dating” (I’ve never really known what that term means, but everybody seems to use it these days), you can break up for any reason or even for no reason at all.

Correct, and it’s not even clear that this constitutes a “break up” because there doesn’t seem to be an actual relationship here. “Stop seeing each other” might be a more correct term.

Another possibility is that when you ask, regardless of whether she answers yes, no or none of your business, is that your desire to know this will be a deal breaker for her. In other words, your feelings of importance on the virginity of anyone makes you less than desirable by her criteria. Just a risk you’ll have to take.

Good point. Any guy I met who was overly concerned with my being a virgin or not would have gotten the boot immediately. I read “Marjorie Morningstar” in high school and, unlike Marjorie, was not interested in marrying any man who considered virginity an ideal and the lack thereof to be a defect that he might love and marry a woman “in spite of”. I will be honest, it was that sort of thinking that made me think very negatively of virginity, with predictable bad results.

 

[Lara]

Go and find thee a virgin. A virgin (in which category we will include victims of rape who, through no fault of their own, were unable to keep their virginity) is . . . often . . . a better bet for marriage and there are plenty of them for you to find if you are in your early twenties. Later, they are rare.

. . . .

 

[Pattylt]

You want a wife who respects what her elders teach her.

Too bad there’s no guarantee the children will be the same! Just sayin…:hugs:

 

[Regi]

People can have a change of heart at any time. Maybe she made a mistake and has regretted it. Most likely, she has confessed it. It is not our place to judge. I speak from experience here - I was that girl. I still regret some of the decisions I made, but I am happy God forgave me and my (future, at the time) husband, could look past that at the person I was when I met him and forgive me also. We have been married for over 25 years now. That was her past, it needs to be forgotten and let go - judge who she is now.

 

[Psalm30]

To everyone arguing over whether it’s his business or not…I think if nothing else, it’s reasonable to be concerned about possible sexually transmitted diseases. No, it’s not something you discuss on the first date, but if they are seriously discerning marriage, it’s definitely something he has a right to know about.

People change, as long as she respects wanting to wait for marriage with you before having sex again there shouldn’t be any reason not to move forward.

Sexual sin is certainly something to be avoided, in that, well…it’s sinful. However, I think being a virgin on your wedding night is overly emphasized by Christians to the point that it may be harmful. It’s potentially harmful because people who have committed the sin—even though they have repented, resolved to sin no more, been absolved, and refrained from committing the sin going forward—are almost viewed as irreparably damaged or inferior because they’re not virgins. I don’t think those emphasizing virginity intend to make that implication, but it is sometimes the way it appears. I say all of this as someone who’s never even kissed anyone other than my husband, and he’s never kissed anyone other than me. I think that’s special, but he and I are no better or holier than those who have made mistakes in that regard and then gone and sinned no more.

 

[Psalm30]

Go and find thee a virgin. A virgin (in which category we will include victims of rape who, through no fault of their own, were unable to keep their virginity) is a better bet for marriage and there are plenty of them for you to find if you are in your early twenties. Later, they are rare.

Just like a non-smoker is a better bet. If a person has tried drugs, they’re also too rebellious. People who do bad things are likely to try other bad things. They haven’t had a strong parental training so you will end up having to navigate that deficit later when you two are raising children together. She will be the one making excuses for your children’s behaviour, and accepting situations in which they choose to rebel. You want a wife who respects what her elders teach her.

I have to say this post is very sad. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone…

 

[CTBcin]

It does not matter if it’s been 3 years or 3 days if it raises concern about a potential future marriage

That is never a question you ask on day 3. Year three, sure. But you don’t go into a relationship asking for deeply personal information from the get go to make sure they check all your “potential spouse“ boxes. Those things take time, after a build up of trust.

I just get tired of seeing people here saying “don’t worry”, “God forgave her so you should too”, or “it doesn’t matter” and then the clergy having to deal with the mess when they end up with the fallout from those unresolved issues.

I don’t want to sound like I’m treating this topic flippantly, because I do think couples should have serious discussions about these matters before marriage, especially if there’s questions or insecurities surrounding this.

But on the other hand… it shouldn’t be a big issue. The obsession with virginity that some men have (because let’s face it, it’s usually men) seems very unhealthy to me. Our sins are forgiven in the confessional, so why aren’t hers?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

People who do bad things are likely to try other bad things. They haven’t had a strong parental training

This is completely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who did have a “strong parental training” and rebelled against it for one reason or another. You can have two kids from the same family receiving exactly the same training and one will grow up to live a good and responsible life and the other might go off the rails. Happens all the time.

It’s fine for someone who wants to marry a virgin (or a non-smoker, or someone who has never used drugs, etc.) to go find one of those, but to make these blanket assumptions about everybody who has not lived their life in a perfect way and say that they’ll do “other bad things” suggests a seriously jaundiced attitude towards humanity, as well as a very judgmental and unrealistic view not consistent with how Jesus viewed the imperfect (which was pretty much everybody).

As someone else said, this sort of attitude towards virginity is unhealthy for Catholicism generally as it suggests that anyone who’s no longer a virgin is somehow “damaged goods”, which is not only wrong but can motivate people to just go commit more sins because they figure, “I’m already second best or no good, so why bother even trying to clean up my act.”

 

[CTBcin]

I have to say this post is very sad. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone…

I thought that post was meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek. That is pretty sad if they’re being serious.

 

[Irishmom2]

Perhaps it is going to far to say that it is a deal breaker, but it is still concerning because of the timeline of when in her life it would have happened.

Look, you either believe it is in the past or not.

Personally, it doesn’t really sound like it is something you would be able to overlook. Enough people here have told you it shouldn’t matter, but you do you. But please remember that we all sin. Don’t judge someone by that sin when we all have sinned.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I thought that post was meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek. That is pretty sad if they’re being serious.

In view of the posting history of the poster, I presumed it was a serious post, as this is not the first time they have posted stuff like this.

I agree it is sad that people think this way, but it takes all kinds to make a world, I guess.

 

[Irishmom2]

@RhodesianSon and @RolandThompsonGunner, you two have given the most honest and revealing insights by your posts that I have ever seen on CAF.