Dating is an Abomination

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The fact that you don’t intend to take ALL the jobs and study ALL the courses makes it no less necessary, for most people, to apply for more than one. Employers and colleges understand this, and understand that you may get multiple offers - it’s part and parcel of the process that you check out all the available opportunities first and then make a decision if needs be. You’d be remiss to do otherwise, since you may miss out on your ideal course or job if you stick with a ‘one at a time’ attitude.

Same with dates. If you sit there and wait for the perfect spouse - or any spouse for that matter - to fall into your lap without ever getting out there and dating, and dating multiple people if necesssary, then you’ve got about as good a chance of it happening as you would of getting into a college without applying for any, or getting a job without applying for any!
Your analogy implies that dating is the only way to tell if you are compatible with someone (for marriage) or not.

I disagree with this. I think you can tell if someone is a potential marriage partner by interacting with them in church, work, groups of friends, and other non-romantic situations.

Once you think someone might be compatible, you can date them, for the intention of seeing if you can form a relationship that leads to marriage.

Under your analogy, you have to date a large number of people, because you have no clue if you’re compatible with someone until you’ve gone on a few dates with them. I don’t see why this has to be true.
 
I won’t read the whole thread, I have not the time or the inclination – but I do have to ask:

Is the OP even MARRIED?
 
Once you think someone might be compatible, you can date them, for the intention of seeing if you can form a relationship that leads to marriage.
You seriously think you can determine whether someone’s good marriage material without ever having dated them in a one-on-one situation? Then you’re setting yourself up for huge disappointment. Lots of things about them simply will not come out in those sort of public situations.

Do you honestly think you can tell if someone is a potential wife-beater, for example, from how they behave in a public group situation? In CHURCH? At WORK? Of course they’re not going to get in a punch up with the boss or the priest.

How about whether they’re a drug user? Or likely to be chronically unfaithful? Why would anyone at church or work know that sort of stuff about them? Why should even their best friends know? Those are the sort of things that only spending one-on-one time with them can possibly give you clues to.
 
That’s not what I meant. You ignored the part of my post where I said “Once you think someone might be compatible, you can date them, for the intention of seeing if you can form a relationship that leads to marriage.”

Where did I say that I would marry someone “without ever having dated them in a one-on-one situation”? I said the exact opposite!
You seriously think you can determine whether someone’s good marriage material without ever having dated them in a one-on-one situation? Then you’re setting yourself up for huge disappointment. Lots of things about them simply will not come out in those sort of public situations.

Do you honestly think you can tell if someone is a potential wife-beater, for example, from how they behave in a public group situation? In CHURCH? At WORK? Of course they’re not going to get in a punch up with the boss or the priest.

How about whether they’re a drug user? Or likely to be chronically unfaithful? Why would anyone at church or work know that sort of stuff about them? Why should even their best friends know? Those are the sort of things that only spending one-on-one time with them can possibly give you clues to.
 
May I remind you that you said:
Your analogy implies that dating is the only way to tell if you are compatible with someone (for marriage) or not.
No, I never did. Nothing like. I said it is AN essential part of that process, not the only way. You seemed to be implying, by disagreeing with me, that it wasn’t even necessary. So it seems we are both agreed that you certainly can’t and shouldn’t get married without dating, then.

So the next question is how are you to determine

a) that you’re choosing the best mate who is available to you,
b) that the person you are selecting IS compatible with you and
c) that YOU are fit for the vocation of marriage

unless you do a reasonable amount of dating, both to get some comparison and to see where YOU may need to work on yourself a bit to become a good spouse as well - or perhaps to see that you’re actually not cut out to be anyone’s spouse?

Surely you don’t walk into a store and just buy the first fridge or sweater or what have you that you see, do you? Of course you look at at least a few others, try them on or try them out if you can, to be sure you’re getting the best one!
 
No, it is a very good book.

The problem I have with dating is that it is basically like trying marriage out for awhile. You have a boyfriend or girlfriend for awhile, then you break up with him or her, then you have another boyfriend or girlfriend again, then you break up again. How you are before marriage is how you will be after marriage. Having a different boyfriend or girlfriend every so often before marriage develops the habit that after marriage you may desire a new husband or wife, i.e. divorce. There are many other ways of getting to know the opposite sex; one must not be “going steady” without intention of marriage in adolescence.

Our misunderstanding may be due to the definition of “to date.”
Geremia, I do hope you are not suggesting teenage marriages???

Well Geremia when I was in my teens many years ago when there was still some sanity left in the world, if the fellows I dated thought for one minute that marriage was on my mind, they would have high tailed it to the nearest garage, baseball, or football team. In other words, I wouldn’t have been able to see them for the dust. Dating is a try out time (done chastely), a time of getting to know one another. This friendship MAY grow into something deeper, then it may NOT. Only time will tell.

Going steady, or having an UNDERSTANDING while in one’s teens is a different situation and I would advise against it. But there is nothing wrong with dating people of the opposite sex having different personalities, outlooks on life etc. How else are you going to know what to look for in a husband or wife? How are you going to know your own mind unless you are sure of what you DO or DON’T want in a future mate? Try to always give yourself a chance to compare in just about any situtation you come across in life. You can dream all you want about that perfect person, that when you are ready to get married s/he will suddenly appear and you will live happily ever after. Taint so.

As far as multple dating forming habits that carry over into marriage, ie. a lot of dates, a lot of husbands, or wives, this would be very rare, not that I have studied it. But, we humans, when we mate seem to want to mate for life and that is the way it should be. There are those, however, whether they have dated many, or a few people before marriage, can’t seem to stay with one person after marriage. But don’t blame this on dating. Usually people in this situtation, and not necessarily both of the people involved, haven’t grown up enough to be able to withstand the ups and downs in marraige. There are all sorts of reasons why people don’t stay together after marriage, but frequent dating with different partners before marriage is not one of them.😉
 
Are you equating dating to a seminary?
What she was saying G. is that as a priest doesn’t just decide one day to become a priest and say Mass the next. He must study many years for the seminary. Those called to the vocation of marriage also need some experience in understanding, being with, talking to, being around the opposite sex. You can’t decide one day, “I’m getting married tomorrow”, go out grab someone who is willing to spend the rest of his or her life with you on short notice and get married.

Centuries ago and in some cultures today husbands and wives have arranged marriages. Their marriage partner is chosen by their parents. BUT this is their culture. This is something the boy and girl have been exposed to all their lives and have become attuned to. No shock, when at fourteen, or fifteen, Mom and Dad say, okay Yussef, tommorrow you meet your bride. How would you like for that to happen to you? Would that make you feel safer? No dating, very little courting, just get married. And usually the man and woman have no say in this, they cannot refuse, or they will no longer belong to their famlly.🙂 .
 
Are you equating dating to a seminary?
uh…I’m 19…do I count?

I have never been on a date before, but I’m at least looking to court a young woman for romantic reasons only…
I think I saw somewhere in the original post, the implication that wide experience in dating means dating multiple people before you finally settle down with one person.

For me that is a tough one to digest, simply because I’m 28 and have never dated or had a boyfriend. Sometimes one relationship can last for some time, only to break up. And there can a big gap between the breakup of that relationship and finding someone else. And that next relationship may not work out either. In the process, years go by and you wonder if you’ve wasted them or not.

I kind of wish I could be one of those rare(?) people who marry their first boyfriend. Because I don’t think I have enough years left to be going through a string of failed relationships anymore. Considering how much having a family means to me.

Sorry if this seems too naive or anything.
Sometimes with age comes wisdom. Look for quality, not quantity whether you date a lot, or very seldom.👍
 
I would be curious how many people that advocate the theory of dating one person instead of dating several people, are in a situation of dating someone and use this as an excuse to accuse the one who wants to break up with them as being sinful. People in a dating situation often lack the perspective of what is best and confuse it with what they want, even if what they want is a good thing.

If the Catholic Church has not spoken, then one is free to choose, even if that choice hurts. No amount of theology will ever take the pain away from rejection, or make choosing a marriage partner easy.
:yup: :yup: :yup: :tiphat:
 
Who says dating usually happens between strangers? Most of the dates I know of will be between people who know each other reasonably well - people who meet at work or university or through other friends and get acquainted that way first. Besides which, every spouse starts off as a stranger, no? What’s wrong with getting to know strangers?
Nothing. And here’s the point: getting to know people doesn’t have to happen through romantic interaction. One doesn’t have to be romantic with an attractive stranger of the opposite gender to get to know that person. It can happen without kissing and cuddling.
Again, the mere fact that not all dates will lead to marriage and some dates will be rejected as future partners is not a problem, and I am having difficulties understanding why you would see it as one.
The mere fact is not what I’m talking about. Dating while knowing the person is not a potential mate, that’s something not so great.
The way I see it - everyone almost certainly will need to apply for several different courses of study for university if they intend to get into one, or several different jobs if they want to obtain one. Both processes are usually lengthy and may involve multiple interviews, testing sessions and so on. And you may get more than one offer and have to decide which one is best for you and reject the others.
Doesn’t work with marriage. Marriage is not really about getting one. Surely, if it were about just getting anyone willing and fitting. But it is not. I find the idea of concurrent romances to be an expression of polygamy and something which is against nature.
The fact that you don’t intend to take ALL the jobs and study ALL the courses makes it no less necessary, for most people, to apply for more than one.
But you get only one contract signed for the same hours.
Employers and colleges understand this, and understand that you may get multiple offers - it’s part and parcel of the process that you check out all the available opportunities first and then make a decision if needs be. You’d be remiss to do otherwise, since you may miss out on your ideal course or job if you stick with a ‘one at a time’ attitude.
What you talk about compares to meeting people, talking to them, who knows, maybe even somewhat flirting. But definitely not a try-before-buy romantic relationship, especially not with several people at the same time. Or are you actually talking about it, really? I mean, are you talking about multiple concurrent romances or just about one coming after one, while considering many people for it?
Same with dates. If you sit there and wait for the perfect spouse - or any spouse for that matter - to fall into your lap without ever getting out there and dating, and dating multiple people if necesssary, then you’ve got about as good a chance of it happening as you would of getting into a college without applying for any, or getting a job without applying for any!
Objection. I got my job after sending my CV around, but I did the first short-term contract with only one employer full-time, instead of a couple of short-term part-time contracts at the same time.
 
You seriously think you can determine whether someone’s good marriage material without ever having dated them in a one-on-one situation? Then you’re setting yourself up for huge disappointment. Lots of things about them simply will not come out in those sort of public situations.

Do you honestly think you can tell if someone is a potential wife-beater, for example, from how they behave in a public group situation? In CHURCH? At WORK? Of course they’re not going to get in a punch up with the boss or the priest.

How about whether they’re a drug user? Or likely to be chronically unfaithful? Why would anyone at church or work know that sort of stuff about them? Why should even their best friends know? Those are the sort of things that only spending one-on-one time with them can possibly give you clues to.
Well, you can’t know everything about the person you want to marry before marriage, so there must still be faith.
 
Well, you can’t know everything about the person you want to marry before marriage, so there must still be faith.
I don’t know, you can get pretty darn close, neither my husband or my self can think of anything we didn’t know about each other before we got married.
 
Nothing. And here’s the point: getting to know people doesn’t have to happen through romantic interaction. One doesn’t have to be romantic with an attractive stranger of the opposite gender to get to know that person. It can happen without kissing and cuddling.

The mere fact is not what I’m talking about. Dating while knowing the person is not a potential mate, that’s something not so great.
Well, back to my analogy - it’s like taking a job that you know you won’t stay at permanently. As long as you’re upfront with the employer and don’t pretend you WILL stay there forever, fact is you gain a lot by the experience - and they get something they need and want from you too.
Doesn’t work with marriage. Marriage is not really about getting one. Surely, if it were about just getting anyone willing and fitting. But it is not. I find the idea of concurrent romances to be an expression of polygamy and something which is against nature.
But settling down to marry someone without having at least some romantic experience with others IS, to my mind, exactly about ‘just getting anyone’ WITHOUT particularly making sure that they’e ‘willing and fitting’. Marrying AFTER dating around a bit is showing that you’re being more selective and careful with both your choosing of a potential life partner and with your discerning of your own readiness for marriage.
But you get only one contract signed for the same hours.
But you’re not prohibited from working another job during the hours you’ve got spare, at least not unless the employment contract states as much, are you?
What you talk about compares to meeting people, talking to them, who knows, maybe even somewhat flirting. But definitely not a try-before-buy romantic relationship, especially not with several people at the same time. Or are you actually talking about it, really? I mean, are you talking about multiple concurrent romances or just about one coming after one, while considering many people for it?
But you WOULD try absolutely everything else before you bought, wouldn’t you? Heck, I make sure to try on a formal dress that I might only wear a handful of times, and examine it very carefully to make sure it’s good quality and so on, and make sure I try other dresses to see that there’s nothing more suitable out there. How much more necessary is it to get to know yourself and plenty of people of the opposite gender before settling down to marriage!

Now I wouldn’t say multiple simultaneous romantic relationships are always OK. But in certain circumstances they are. For example, if you have a long-distance relationship and you meet someone who lives closer who may be more compatible, you can surely overlap the dating of the two a little while you’re discerning if it’s worth continuing with the long-distance one. Always assuming you’re upfront with all concerned.
Objection. I got my job after sending my CV around, but I did the first short-term contract with only one employer full-time, instead of a couple of short-term part-time contracts at the same time.
And that was your choice, and for whatever reason you were neither willing nor able to work other jobs during the hours you weren’t working at that one. Doesn’t mean there would’ve been anything wrong with your doing so if you were able and willing, as long as you weren’t dishonest with any of the employers about it, and weren’t contractually bound to exclusively work for the one employer alone. 🤷
 
In the one instance you’re discerning your vocation to the sacrament of marriage, in the other you’re discerning your vocation to the sacrament of Holy Orders. Dating prepares you for marriage, seminary prepares you for Holy Orders. The comparison is reasonable.
OK
 
Well, you can’t know everything about the person you want to marry before marriage, so there must still be faith.
You’re right you can’t know everything about someone before you get married. But you can’t necessarily learn what you don’t want until you’ve tried it.

I dated guys who are perfect on paper. They seemed like everything you could want. Then something happens. They don’t handle their anger well. They drink to much. They have different priorities, or gasp their a Yankee fan. I dated guys who were not so good on paper, but ended up being pretty good guys, some I sparked with others, not so much.

My fiance is one of the latter guys. He’s not my “type” I always dated the tall skinny and handsome. He’s neither tall nor skinny,
he’s not conventionally handsome. But he’s smart. He makes a good living, he is a kind person, he doesn’t anger easily. He knows when he should shut up. He tells me when I’m being a horses patoot. He is a good listener. He has flaws, some that drive me completely batty. He’s a little loose with his money. He drives like a crazy person, he’s loud. But I can live with those in all but my least finest moments.

I never would have known that his qualities were what I was looking for if I hadn’t dated guys who were in the end controlling, or manipulative, or in one case actually litterally certifiably insane.

Dating is not an abomination, unless your only dating someone to make yourself feel better by not being ALONE.
 
Well, back to my analogy - it’s like taking a job that you know you won’t stay at permanently. As long as you’re upfront with the employer and don’t pretend you WILL stay there forever, fact is you gain a lot by the experience - and they get something they need and want from you too.
Objection. It is not good to have a pointless romantic relationship (with a pre-agreed ending moment) for the sake of experience alone. I believe that our faculties which are involved in such relationships are not for free use without the proper cause for which they are intended, i.e. marriage. It may be good to some extent to use them in finding the right person or seeing if a given person is right, but not for fun, enjoyment or experience.
But settling down to marry someone without having at least some romantic experience with others IS, to my mind, exactly about ‘just getting anyone’ WITHOUT particularly making sure that they’e ‘willing and fitting’.
Objection on moral grounds. I’ve heard even very wise people telling younger ones to break up with whomever they are, then have new relationships and see what’s next. I disagree, however, with all of that. It is too objectifying and appears to be selfish.
Marrying AFTER dating around a bit is showing that you’re being more selective and careful with both your choosing of a potential life partner and with your discerning of your own readiness for marriage.
Only so long as dating around does not include kissing around or cuddling around. If it involves going to cafes or dances with many people, then sure, really, so long as there is any sense to it and it isn’t merely experience gathering (what fans of roleplaying games refer to as “exping”). We always ought to remember that the other person is not our tool.
But you’re not prohibited from working another job during the hours you’ve got spare, at least not unless the employment contract states as much, are you?
Actually, the labour law prohibits that, if your contact is full-time, regardless of most full-time contracts containing a prohibition anyway, unless your employer consents.

The analogy is not very accurate, however, since there is no romantic, sexual or reproductory part in a job. Employee/employer exclusivity is of a commercial nature, akin to being an exclusive dealer or an exclusive supplier. The reasons are purely economic.
But you WOULD try absolutely everything else before you bought, wouldn’t you?
Not really. Sometimes I just look people in the eye or listen to the pitch of their voice and I know if the deal is good. Sometimes I actually take their word on something.
Heck, I make sure to try on a formal dress that I might only wear a handful of times, and examine it very carefully to make sure it’s good quality and so on, and make sure I try other dresses to see that there’s nothing more suitable out there. How much more necessary is it to get to know yourself and plenty of people of the opposite gender before settling down to marriage!
One thing missing. Marriage is not something we wear and the spouse is not an item or a pet. Is a fully human person just as we are. He or she is not a means of satisfying our needs and is not a commercial product we buy.
Now I wouldn’t say multiple simultaneous romantic relationships are always OK.
I would say never, regardless of consent.
But in certain circumstances they are. For example, if you have a long-distance relationship and you meet someone who lives closer who may be more compatible, you can surely overlap the dating of the two a little while you’re discerning if it’s worth continuing with the long-distance one. Always assuming you’re upfront with all concerned.
Nope. Meeting and spending time, talking and so on, yes. When it crosses walks and coffees, chess and discussions about the meaning of life (;)), and begins to include romantic expressions such as kissing, cuddling and others, then no, it should not overlap.

Basically, I would say that dating doesn’t need to be exclusive, but things like kissing and cuddling do need to be. Doesn’t include friendly hugs or cheek pecks, obviously. I mean the more romantic and more obvious gesture.
And that was your choice, and for whatever reason you were neither willing nor able to work other jobs during the hours you weren’t working at that one.
With no moral component to it other than I wouldn’t break a contract, especially not a valid and honest contract, and/or without a good reason. With marriage or even a simple romantic relationship the moral component is much stronger.
Doesn’t mean there would’ve been anything wrong with your doing so if you were able and willing, as long as you weren’t dishonest with any of the employers about it, and weren’t contractually bound to exclusively work for the one employer alone. 🤷
Yes, in contrast to kissing around.
 
…I never would have known that his qualities were what I was looking for if I hadn’t dated guys who were in the end controlling, or manipulative, or in one case actually litterally certifiably insane.

Dating is not an abomination, unless your only dating someone to make yourself feel better by not being ALONE.
:clapping:

As a 41 year old craddle Catholic married mother of 2, I am having a really hard time with the entire premis of this post. How do you know you want to “court” someone, if you don’t “date” them first? What are you proposing happens??? And is this something you read about in a book, or did it really lead you to finding your forever husband?

Since I was 12 years old, I have known many guys. Gone out with them to parties, movies, dances, etc… on dates (chasely of course). Then if they passed initial scrutiny (ie became my boyfriend - that is an exclusive relationship), I introduced them to my family. I got their feedback. Continued to date exclusively. As I would get to know the person better, I would find things that didn’t gel, and the relationship would die. Soon another started dating, exclusivity, the person passed more scrutiny, and I decided to court (date with intention to perhaps marry). I even got engaged to 1 guy, and that didn’t work out. And finally I met my now husband, went through dating, boyfriend stage, then courting, then engagement, then marriage. Constant prayer has guided me throughout my entire life, not just in finding a life partner, but in all aspects.

To me this seems like the normal, orderly, logical sequence in acquiring a life partner. Where am I going wrong here?

My son is 11 now, and I’d be interested in your perspective.
 
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