Daytona Beach father beats man he found raping son, police say

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Burt_Macklin said:
Vigilante justice is a very serious serious crime. That is why it is so good that the father only did the bare minimum to restrain the perp and then called the police. Until you find yourself in a similar situation there is no way that you can realize the amount of restraint that the father showed.
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Ah the old “unless you experience it yourself shut up” argument. I guess unless one experiences what’s it like to be a pedophile, one should not judge child rapists either.

I’m trying to be charitable here but this is not a Catholic position you’re advocating.

The perp’s face is all blue and swollen. That’s not restraint. In fact he need not even have restrained him. His job was to protect his son. Unless the man needed the pounding to his face to stop him molesting his son this was uncalled for. The police are there for the rest, as is the justice system.
 
Tenofovir said:
Ah the old “unless you experience it yourself shut up” argument. I guess unless one experiences what’s it like to be a pedophile, one should not judge child rapists either.

I’m trying to be charitable here but this is not a Catholic position you’re advocating.

The perp’s face is all blue and swollen. That’s not restraint. In fact he need not even have restrained him. His job was to protect his son. Unless the man needed the pounding to his face to stop him molesting his son this was uncalled for. The police are there for the rest, as is the justice system.
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Even the majority of tribal and primitive forms of justice have recognised the heinous nature of paedophilia and its truly cancerous nature, so it’s not outside of justice that the fathers actions don’t carry the same criminal value as regular assault does. Of course that stance would be more of a concession than a guiding principle.
 
Tenofovir said:
Ah the old “unless you experience it yourself shut up” argument. I guess unless one experiences what’s it like to be a pedophile, one should not judge child rapists either.

I’m trying to be charitable here but this is not a Catholic position you’re advocating.

The perp’s face is all blue and swollen. That’s not restraint. In fact he need not even have restrained him. His job was to protect his son. Unless the man needed the pounding to his face to stop him molesting his son this was uncalled for. The police are there for the rest, as is the justice system.
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You’re Monday morning quarterbacking. If the father had let the perp walk away without restraining him and the perp returned his kindness by killing the witnesses to his crime you would be on here wondering why the father didn’t do more to remove the threat before calling the police.

The police found no excessive use of force so his actions not being in line with Catholic teaching is nothing more than conjecture on your part.
 
I hope he gets a very longggg sentence but also I hope This evil man will see the terrible things he has done and repent and be changed. Same with perpetrators of all serious sins. No good wanting him dead surely better to want him to repent? I pray first for the victims.
 
LongingSoul said:
Even the majority of tribal and primitive forms of justice have recognised the heinous nature of paedophilia and its truly cancerous nature, so it’s not outside of justice that the fathers actions don’t carry the same criminal value as regular assault does. Of course that stance would be more of a concession than a guiding principle.
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I’m not sure if that’s correct. I don’t think it’s a Catholic thing to do that. I understand it may be very difficult to control and so on. But one should not promote it. It’s a bad thing which was done, if any excessive violence was used, any more than was necessary to stop the man from assaulting the youngster.
 
Tenofovir said:
I’m not sure if that’s correct. I don’t think it’s a Catholic thing to do that. I understand it may be very difficult to control and so on. But one should not promote it. It’s a bad thing which was done, if any excessive violence was used, any more than was necessary to stop the man from assaulting the youngster.
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I don’t think anyone would advocate vigilante justice by saying ‘this is what I’d do in that situation’. The justice system does recognise the unique aspect of family ties, obligations and loyalties in different ways. Spouses aren’t required to testify against each other for example.

So if a father is moved to act by the principle of self defense (which recognises defense of a loved one) that factor carries a greater degree of weight than if some stranger off the street had come across this paedophilic act and thumped the abuser.

While there can’t be two laws for different people, the justice system does recognise the value of family bonds and legitimate defense in determining culpability
 
LongingSoul said:
While there can’t be two laws for different people, the justice system does recognise the value of family bonds and legitimate defense in determining culpability
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OK, but was that determined justly? Would a cop who is a dad too, be an impartial assessor of this? Was the amount of violence used appropriate?

And strictly speaking is what this father did the ideal Catholics should strive for? Is this the same highest standard or not? If not, it needs to be pointed out. Likewise, if a husband does not provide sex to his wife, is it OK for the wife to cheat on her husband, or vice versa? One can understand why it happened, but it’s still wrong. Or is this different. Honest questions.
 
IMO, if you come across a violent crime being committed and you have the means to put an end to it, you have a rather broad latitude of judgment about the amount of violence necessary to incapacitate the perpetrator. It sounds nice and easy at the keyboard to say that you simply incapacitate the guy, but in the real world pulling your punches may be a good way to let the bad guy recover and fight back and victimize you too.

I say benefit of doubt goes to the rescuer, not the criminal. You’d have to prove to me that he deliberately went over the top as vengeance, not as an immediate emotional reaction and desire to stop the crime.

As for the police, I suspect many would lend the guy a baton…
 
manualman said:
IMO, if you come across a violent crime being committed and you have the means to put an end to it, you have a rather broad latitude of judgment about the amount of violence necessary to incapacitate the perpetrator. It sounds nice and easy at the keyboard to say that you simply incapacitate the guy, but in the real world pulling your punches may be a good way to let the bad guy recover and fight back and victimize you too.
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I think there are two issues. The practical, on the ground issues, which are determined by the situation, the emotional state, the assessment made by the rescuer, state of the victim, state of the aggressor and so on. If it’s a big dangerous guy, you may want to knock him out ASAP, sure. I’m asking rather about the moral aspect, which we can philosophise about from behind keyboards.
I say benefit of doubt goes to the rescuer, not the criminal. You’d have to prove to me that he deliberately went over the top as vengeance, not as an immediate emotional reaction and desire to stop the crime.
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Yes. Sure. But is the ideal not to try to be above emotion? Are we called to do the minimum or maybe a reasonable amount or are we to try to be as holy as possible?
As for the police, I suspect many would lend the guy a baton…
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Well we know police violence also exists.
 
Tenofovir said:
Ah the old “unless you experience it yourself shut up” argument. I guess unless one experiences what’s it like to be a pedophile, one should not judge child rapists either.

I’m trying to be charitable here but this is not a Catholic position you’re advocating.

The perp’s face is all blue and swollen. That’s not restraint. In fact he need not even have restrained him. His job was to protect his son. Unless the man needed the pounding to his face to stop him molesting his son this was uncalled for. The police are there for the rest, as is the justice system.
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If I found anyone sexually assaulting a child, (mine if I had one) or anyone’s child, I would immediately view that child’s life as being in danger and I would pound the living snot out of them. Anyone who finds it necessary to assault a child does not need sympathy. They need a full proof jail cell (that is the kindest I can get for them) and the key tossed. They are not sound enough to be free in society.

For those who do find it possible to have sympathy for them, you house them in your house around your kids. Let the rest of us go with knocking the snot out of them and tossing em in jail.
 
I’m sure the dad didn’t beat him…the perp just fell down the stairs a few (dozen) times…

…even if it was in a ranch house with no basement…
 
This entire event is sad. But I can help but wonder if the beat down wasn’t necessary to all concerned. Certainly a catharsis for the father. But the son now knows that his Father will defend him. For the perpetrator this may have been necessary to start him on the long road to recovery, and redemption.

Remember there is always hope.
 
Maybe we ought to be asking why people like this criminal have the feelings they do for younger kids rather than other adults, as normal people do? Is it a mental defect, disease, or…? It seems to effect alot more people in modern times, as everytime I watch the news, there is someone else accused of trying to or having sexual relations with someone young! Has to be something causing them to feel this way?
 
mikekle said:
Maybe we ought to be asking why people like this criminal have the feelings they do for younger kids rather than other adults, as normal people do? Is it a mental defect, disease, or…? It seems to effect alot more people in modern times, as everytime I watch the news, there is someone else accused of trying to or having sexual relations with someone young! Has to be something causing them to feel this way?
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I’m sure this behavior goes back to our very beginnings. Civilivation, and peer pressure went along way towards shaping our modern behavior patterns.

ATB
 
Wow. I am thankful that the father caught this pervert so that now justice can be served. I am going to pray for this poor child that he heals from the trauma of being molested over years.
 
mikekle said:
Maybe we ought to be asking why people like this criminal have the feelings they do for younger kids rather than other adults, as normal people do? Is it a mental defect, disease, or…? It seems to effect alot more people in modern times, as everytime I watch the news, there is someone else accused of trying to or having sexual relations with someone young! Has to be something causing them to feel this way?
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It’s reported more now. Also child abuse was tolerated more in the past. Read up about the history of child pornography in the world and see how it was pretty much legal in many places or at least there were no laws against it or it wasn’t policed actively. People didn’t consider it much of a problem. Our staunch Western ally Japan for example only banned child porn production in the 1990s and only made child porn ownership illegal this year. It’s still not punishable over there for another year.
 
Cricket2 said:
If I found anyone sexually assaulting a child, (mine if I had one) or anyone’s child, I would immediately view that child’s life as being in danger and I would pound the living snot out of them. Anyone who finds it necessary to assault a child does not need sympathy. They need a full proof jail cell (that is the kindest I can get for them) and the key tossed. They are not sound enough to be free in society.

For those who do find it possible to have sympathy for them, you house them in your house around your kids. Let the rest of us go with knocking the snot out of them and tossing em in jail.
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I can understand your empathy. And definitely there are also different types of sexual assault. One could be outright violent rape and another could be someone putting his hand on a child’s buttocks or breast. I would think beating the perp to a pulp would be inappropriate in the latter instances, as I don’t think their life was in immediate danger.

But I think there is a danger, and an agnostic poster illustrates this in a thread on another forum about the Sacrament of Reconciliation and a priest not revealing that a child abuser made a confession to him. I think our faith should be No 1, or rather God is No 1 and we should act in that manner as much as possible, and even when not possible acknowledge that perhaps we may be wrong to exact unnecessary violence in particular situations. Maybe a natural law theorist could chime in. I could be wrong but I think that the approach of this father while not significantly immoral was in some degree less than ideal.
 
That father has far more restraint than I would have had in that situation. All reason goes out the window for me when it comes to kids and animals. I think killing people who abuse kids or animals is too quick a punishment. I prefer seeing them paralyzed from the neck down so they can spend the rest of their days living with the consequences of their actions. (I know, not very nice)
 
Dawnia said:
That father has far more restraint than I would have had in that situation. All reason goes out the window for me when it comes to kids and animals. I think killing people who abuse kids or animals is too quick a punishment. I prefer seeing them paralyzed from the neck down so they can spend the rest of their days living with the consequences of their actions. (I know, not very nice)
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HA, that is amazing, I feel the same way about people who abuse kids or animals, I would rather them suffer from being paralyzed versus a quick death any day! I think their inability to move or do anything would be the worst thing possible for them!
 
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