DC archbishop slams Trump visit to Catholic shrine

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Adamek said:
Which part of the picture made you throw up?
Was it
a/Trump
b/Trump standing
c/Trump standing there
d/his wife

What did you find so disgusting?
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His wife lol.

Kidding aside, it’s just the political posturing. I am not judging his faith. I cannot read his heart. But the composition of that photograph reminds me of reality TV shows where the camera man just happens to be in the space where the star ‘spontaneously’ decides to go. It’s showy, it’s artificial, it’s inauthentic.
 
StudentMI said:
Kidding aside, it’s just the political posturing.
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Political posturing, as we all know, is a Trump invention. Shouldn’t he be given credit for that?

But seriously, at a time when the churches of worship are all but closed by the governors, Trump’s presence at a sanctuary is a powerful message to us. And I am less concerned with his religious beliefs. The message is political. He is standing up for religious rights. This, I think, is important.
 
He is the Archbishop. I can understand criticism, as no one is above it, but there is no way I would stand with anti-Catholics like LSN to attack an Archbishop. If Trump was sincere, why the cameras? Are they a worship aid for ego?
 
Wait, so sincerely is never seen if ‘cameras’ are there as well? Would you say the same about say Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden if they were photographed visiting a church?
 
stpurl said:
Wait, so sincerely is never seen if ‘cameras’ are there as well? Would you say the same about say Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden if they were photographed visiting a church?
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I know I would. Know you weren’t asking me but just saying.
 
I know there is a whole separate aspect with them all being politicians, who always seem to play to the camera, just as there might be expectations about say actors or entertainment figures.

My point though was that there are complex factors out there with regard to the POTUS. For one, it is rare for him to be able to go anywhere where cameras are NOT, due to the office he holds.

But above all, I’d like to note that God sees the heart. We don’t.

For all we know, the whole thing was an opportunistic sham as so many want to believe. . .but it may also be a totally genuine submission of the heart and worship of God.

I would hate for people to judge me based on what they ‘think’ my motives are, or how my ‘appearance’ comes across to them.

You would think that right now in our country’s state with the racism and sexism —both of which deal with the perceptions of other people regarding the worth of someone based on what ‘they think’—people would be more careful about casting aspersions and making judgments. Yes, even about ‘politicians’.
 
I do not accept that sort of whataboutism. In cases like this, I take it as an insult to my integrity. Let me just say that I agree with Jesus on the subject about those who “pray to the camera.”
The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
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President Trump is a leader, and he is leading. He does not choose to be in front of cameras, that is something that comes with the office of President.

Why don’t we substitute “Trump” with “Pope Francis” in this news story and see how that reads?

Pope Francis made a visit to the Plague Cross in an empty street in an empty city with only a security detail and a camera man. Did the Holy Father pray to the camera? Please be fair.
 
Anesti33 said:
Did the Holy Father pray to the camera? Please be fair.
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Am I unfair, or are you, for as Pope, leading liturgy is kind of his job!

Comparing the two is as stark as black and white. One clears the street of the riff-raff to go hold up a Bible. The other rides the bus back to the hotel after being chosen pontiff. Only one claims to he the best, the most, the greatest, etc.
 
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I am not criticizing the Holy Father but for one, his early decisions for whatever reason did involve a lot of extra work and also some job losses even if many were quickly ‘reshuffled’ or reassigned. Two, and again, I absolutely am not accusing the Holy Father, we do not KNOW his reasons for his actions. It is highly probable that he had the most altruistic and humble reasons in his heart. But we cannot know that for sure. And I think you have enough intellectual honestly to acknowledge that you cannot know FOR SURE.

Therefore, again in order to be intellectually honest, you have to acknowledge that whatever your OPINION is regarding the heart of Mr. Trump and how he really felt ‘inside’ regardless of what he did ‘outside’, you cannot KNOW that he did not have praiseworthy feelings in that heart.

You cannot assign to him the feelings of the Pharisee based on cherry-picking Scripture and assigning a superficial resemblance to a human being whose heart is known to God alone. Not to you and not to me.
 
Note, while I cannot know his heart when he prays, I can listen to the words that come out of his mouth and ask if he is exalting himself or humbling himself. That part doesn’t take a stable genius with the best words and a really high IQ.

When I see an accusation of proof-texting, and I believe it to be misapplied, I like to ask how did the passage not apply to one going to a Church with cameras following, or what other passages might shed a different light. For Scripture cannot be dismissed for inconvenience.
 
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I’m not attacking the President for the visit to the JPII Shrine. I’m calling out Archbishop Gregory’s statement. Cokie Roberts, at whose funeral he presided, was an unrepentant supported of abortion. Nancy Pelosi supports abortion through all 9 months of pregnancy. His presiding over the very public funeral with a vehement supporter of abortion giving the Eulogy is scandalous and was very political.

I pray for the conversion of all - especially mine.
 
This is an example of what frustrates me about the current state of our Church. It saddens me to witness the Catholic Church speak out against a president who is the first in many years to defend our religious freedoms and to stand with us in our fight to end abortion. Where was this same outcry from Catholics when Obama’s presidency threatened our rights? Where were our Catholic leaders when the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage in all 50 states? Where were our Catholic leaders when the governor of New York joyfully legalized the murder of full term infants? I am appalled and disappointed as I watch our world change for the worse, and our churches changing with it. Are these bishops so afraid of losing parishioners that they would submit themselves to an immoral and corrupt regime just to appear current and relevant? Trump is as much of a sinner as any of us. Instead of trying to shoot down the pilot of the plane that they (and all of us!) are on, why don’t they pray for him instead? And heed the words of Our Lord “let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
 
cjsm93 said:
I am appalled and disappointed as I watch our world change for the worse, and our churches changing with it. Are these bishops so afraid of losing parishioners that they would submit themselves to an immoral and corrupt regime just to appear current and relevant?
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Sadly it seems the more the Church confirms to the world the more members it loses. What’s the point, after all, if the Church just stands for the same things as the rest of society?
 
Anesti33 said:
He does not choose to be in front of cameras
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The photos here weren’t taken by the press. They were taken by a photographer and the released to the press.

He went to the shrine with a photographer, who climbed behind an altar to get their picture.
 
Was he supposed to climb up on an altar to get a picture?

If the photographer is there, than the image of Jesus behind the altar is obscured by the photographer.
 
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