De-spoiling a child

[Allegra]

I know the obvious answer is to not allow the child to get spoiled in the first place, but does anyone have tried and true advice for undoing the damage? My friend has got two girls and she has recently split up with their father. The whole situation was very hard on all of them and as a result, my friend has been over-indulgent for some time. This is compounded by the fact that she has been living with friends and is now in a small apartment and is terrified of letting her kids “cry it out” because she’s been afraid of being thrown out, or now, evicted because of the noise. Her biggest issue is getting the girls to go to bed. They both scream when they are left in their beds and can go on for some time. Her older child insists on sleeping on top of her and won’t even let her get up to go to the bathroom or get anything done and she is losing her mind. Eating is also a battle and the older child is becoming disobedient as well. She is never disobedient at school though, and it seems to be a power struggle with her mother. She is in child therapy and the therapist told my friend that while this probably is related to emotional issues because of the separation, that doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t be working on the behavior problems. My first thought is to let them cry and begin the process of learning that crying doesn’t get you what you want. I figure that it will be hard, since this has gone on so long, but it’s only going to get harder the longer it goes. I know she doesn’t want to hear that though. Any gentler methods that have been successful?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Because these children are going through the biggest trauma a child can go through, the breakup of their family, can anyone doubt that fear of losing another parent while they sleep is causing the children to behave this way?

I would advise my friend to seek the assistance of a Family Sleep Consultant.

Food and toilet are the two things kids can control when they cannot control anything else. I would not make food a battleground until the children are far more secure.

Prayers!!

 

[Lee1]

If the mother has time she might try spending a half hour with them reading aloud some wholesome bedtime stories. That may reassure them, and maybe get them sleepy?

Speaking of sleepy, it would be good to keep them away from screens and tv for a while before bedtime too.

 

[Allegra]

I know she reads to them every night, or at least to her older child. I can suggest turning the TV off. I think she’s actually used it to play soft music, thinking it might help them to sleep.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve never heard of that before. Is that a medical professional? She doesn’t have much money.

 

[Allegra]

PS- I don’t think anyone is confused about what is causing the behavior. She’s overwhelmed with trying to stop it without getting evicted from her apartment.

 

[PetraG]

This is not a simple matter of undisciplined children you are talking about. This is a matter of children who have had the problem of their lives turning upside down being treated by also withdrawing discipline (which is actually a comfort, not a form of oppression). It is not at all uncommon for children who are having serious emotional problems to choose to “keep it together” in one setting and to act out in another.

In her shoes, I would work with the therapist who knows the children to set a course about how to handle these problems, including what Plan B and Plan C and Plan D are going to be when Plan A does not work.

What your friend does not want to do is to set boundaries and then again withdraw the boundaries by failing to keep them. She needs to think of her boundaries not as fences to keep them in line but rather as walls to help them feel safe and attended to. They need to feel a sense of unassailable normalcy…that is, that there are some things that are givens and can be counted on. That shouldn’t just be in the area of discipline, but in many areas of their lives where they know there is a Plan A and when Plan A doesn’t work there is a Plan B and a Plan C, not just a free-for-all with no structure left at all.

I agree that it would be a mistake to make food a battlefield. With eating, you cannot force a child to eat. What you do is to set boundaries, such as: until you eat this (the nutritious stuff) you don’t get any of that (the desserts). This is also something to talk with a professional about, because of course a child who has had her life torn apart is at a much higher risk of developing an eating disorder of some kind, either by exerting control in her life by her food choices or by using food as her comfort or a way to get back at her parents.

The therapist will probably also bring this up, but this is also a matter for co-parenting. The marriage may be over, but the work of parenting is still shared. The parents have to suck it up and do their best to parent together. Again, this is a matter of giving the children a safe structure to live in. If they see their parents aren’t fond of each other but will put aside any issue in order to work together for the welfare of the child, that makes an impression on children. Expressions of contempt for the other parent need to be avoided, just as we try to avoid expressions of contempt for teachers, even when the teacher is driving us nuts. We don’t always get to choose everything about the other adults in our childrens’ lives; that is just a fact of life.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Google will help you find professionals in her area. The friends I have who’ve used them have been very pleased. The kids mental/emotional health is the first priority. I’d at least check into it, speak with their pediatrician and ask if they can recommend someone.

Also, are the kids involved at their parish? Kids need spiritual support as much as we adults do. Maybe reading a chapter of a Bible Story Book every night, then, lighting a candle and praying Night Prayers together would help the kids get a safe, quiet routine to the night.

 

[PetraG]

Google will help you find professionals in her area. The friends I have who’ve used them have been very pleased. The kids mental/emotional health is the first priority. I’d at least check into it, speak with their pediatrician and ask if they can recommend someone.

Also, are the kids involved at their parish? Kids need spiritual support as much as we adults do. Maybe reading a chapter of a Bible Story Book every night, then, lighting a candle and praying Night Prayers together would help the kids get a safe, quiet routine to the night.

Catholic Charities sometimes has resources for those who need counselling help and can’t afford it; it depends on the area.

 

[PetraG]

Her biggest issue is getting the girls to go to bed. They both scream when they are left in their beds and can go on for some time. Her older child insists on sleeping on top of her and won’t even let her get up to go to the bathroom or get anything done and she is losing her mind.

I’d go to the therapist and start here. This is way beyond the purview of what parents of a “spoiled” child have to contend with. I don’t think the “cry it out” strategy is going to work at all, though. You’re probably going to see something more like setting a timer and sitting with them in their room (in a chair, not in bed with them) for a certain amount of time after they turn the lights out. The therapist might also want to know how much the children’s desire to touch their mom had changed and in what ways, so that an appropriate course can be set to give them whatever they are trying to get by that physical clinginess.

If you are in a position to visit her during go-to-bed times, that support might actually be helpful. I know in her shoes I might want someone to hand me a cup of tea and help me debrief when I’m riding out that storm. Even being there for her to send texts to might be very comforting for your friend.

She is going to need endurance and a big sense of humor. It might feel like gallows humor, but the right attitude is to realize that what you want is to some day be able to relate this wretched ordeal to the children when they are adults as if it were all in the many day’s work you were willing to do in order to raise such lovely women. You want to take the attitude that the day will come that you’ll be able to laugh about it. (One of our examples would be: we knew when we started thinking we should have installed a garbage disposal in the laundry room that we had barfers on our hands.)

Laughing with your beloved adult children about all of this some day is the goal, after all.
The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. (Steven Covey)
In parenting as in aviation, there will be times when any landing you walk away from is a good one.

 

[Allegra]

Unfortunately, and unless some considerable changes occur, it appears as though their father’s greatest contribution to their upbringing is going to be the consistency of his absence.

 

[Allegra]

I actually just did google the term and I found two local results. One appears to be associated with a group of child therapists and one appears to be a “freelancer”. Neither appears to be affiliated with a medical hospital or group, so that’s why I was wondering how reasonable it would be for her to get access to them. She is still in the process of gaining stability in her home environment and means to provide electricity, food, childcare so she can work, so unfortunately, mental health really isn’t the first financial priority. She is able to get free therapy because of Medicaid and Catholic Family Services. Unless this consultant is something covered under Medicaid, it probably is unrealistic for her at this time, though I will pass the idea on.

 

[PetraG]

Unfortunately, and unless some considerable changes occur, it appears as though their father’s greatest contribution to their upbringing is going to be the consistency of his absence.

In a way, a consistent absence is easier to work around than an inconsistent and unpredictable presence. Childhood is so much more difficult when it is full of unpredictable adults who cannot be relied upon.

The more predictable and consistent adults she can get into her girls lives (and into hers!!), the better. If she can find a time when there are family volunteer things going on at her parish, for instance, where she and her girls can make predictable and stable friends, all the better. At this point in life, routines are very good. It is more stability for the children and less decision-making stress for her. Always be up-front about Plan B, though, so when something happens to disrupt things, the next thing will be foreseeable and it won’t really be a “disruption” so much as a different part of the original plan. That’s less stress for the kids, but also less stress about “things going wrong” for her.

 

[Allegra]

So, based on the advice of his attorney, and in order to avoid having to financially support his children, he demanded 50/50 custody. The judge ordered it and handed them a schedule. She was able to get her employer to adjust to that schedule.

After two weeks, it was obvious that the father wasn’t going to abide by the schedule and he claimed that it didn’t work with his job and refused to pick up the children. She was put on notice at her job after her third episode of calling in because he wouldn’t pick up the kids at his appointed time. It took a month to get a court date for the revision of the schedule, during which, she lost the job.

She went to the court after six weeks of not being able to go to work because he would not pick them up and not receiving a dime of financial support, and the judge did not change the custody order but changed the schedule in order to accomadate the father’s schedule.

My friend found a new job that would give her hours during the time she did not have the kids and when they were in childcare. Again, the father refused to pick them up on time and she lost that job as well as the childcare. After explaining the situation, the first job agreed to keep her on as a “seasonal extra”, who came in when times were really busy, until she could get her custody arrangement “worked out”.

It’s evident that this man has no intention of spending any time with his children, and is just using this 50/50 custody nonsense to avoid paying child support for as long as he can get away with it. My friend is now going on four months of no financial support and having no ability to work consistently except for the three weekdays she can put her kids in childcare for free, due to a need-based scholarship, and assuming that her part-time job can use her at those times.

Her next appointment is still three weeks away and she’s completely financially depended on the church, aid, and her elderly parents to keep her afloat until hopefully a judge provides a reasonable custody order. So yeah, the best thing this man could do is step away and write a check.

 

[PetraG]

O, Heaven help this poor woman. She is deep into Serenity Prayer territory, the poor thing.
May the Just Judge give her justice for her situation soon.

In the meantime, yes, I think the best thing for her is to work with the therapist to set boundaries she will be in a position to enforce. What she does not want is to have either no boundaries or inconsistently-enforced ones. That’s going to be a matter of choosing projects (not battles) and having a sense of humor (even if it is gallows humor) around the things she cannot change.

Speaking of the Serenity Prayer, the library usually has copies of Co-Dependent No More and other books by Melody Beattie. A lot of what both co-dependents and people with addictions have to learn are just very good life skills for anyone who has had an unpredictable life thrown at her. Melody Beattie has been through a lot and writes with a lot of compassion and common sense.

Her next appointment is still three weeks away…

OK, so what can she do now? Well, since at least one of the girls is in school, she can frame the bedtime matter as something that is not working for her or the girls or the neighbors, something no one is happy with, and brainstorm a routine that would work for the girls, for herself and for the neighbors. That means she sets what she and the neighbors need as part of the framework and then lets the girls have (name removed by moderator)ut about the framework and find solutions within that. When she does that, though, I would suggest that Plan B not be a punishment but natural consequences or a lack of a reward. As in, “If you do your part to make Plan A work, I’ll do my part to get you the reward. If you don’t deliver your part of Plan A, then the reward part of Plan A isn’t happening, either.”

Notice she’s not setting a set of steps but goals that need to be met. She might be surprised about solutions that the girls come up with, but it helps to keep an open mind. She might say, “I don’t think this is going to work, but we’ll make your way Plan A and if you don’t follow through (which is measured in this way), then we’re going to my way, which is Plan B.”

She’s still the decision-maker, she needs to be clear about that, but she’s letting the girls have some hand in coming up with solutions that are more to their liking but still meet her goals. Having the attitude that getting what you need or want depends on the ability to consider what others need and want is a good habit for the girls to develop as they go forward in life.

 

[Allegra]

Yeah. It’s not good. She’s doing everything she can and she has gotten some miracles to help her keep afloat on the way. She is a “single parent” in the truest sense of the phrase, but she is quickly burning out. She needs to be able to get things done in the evening after the kids go to bed, but she can’t count on that. She is so stressed out from all of this and it would help her out immensely to have some procedures and consistency in place. The problem is, after almost a year of chaos, it’s really hard to instill order.

 

[PetraG]

She needs to be able to get things done in the evening after the kids go to bed, but she can’t count on that.

Showing the girls what she has to get done in a day is part of the overall matter of bedtime, by the way. I can easily see them volunteering to do some of it or to make themselves no-care at a different time of day in order to free up more time for her to spend with them.

I’m not suggesting that she place her problems on their shoulders, by the way. I’m suggesting that she explain why the limits on what solutions they can have are there. They need to know that their mom is not disappointing them or limiting them for arbitrary reasons, but because it is her responsibility to take care of everyone in the house, including herself. That means they’ll know the walls around them keep out the wind and the rain and hold the roof up, rather than just keeping some of the fresh air they might like from getting in.

If she’s strapped for funds, I’ve found Melody Beattie’s books are both very practical and also available at most public libraries.

 

[Roguish]

I’ve only just scanned this thread, so it’s possible I missed something, but I don’t think you’ve mentioned whether your friend and her girls are Catholic or not. Are they? Or are they otherwise Christian, or religious?

 

[Allegra]

They are 4 and 2, so I don’t think they are quite old enough to understand this. Maybe the 4yo on some level, but definitely not the 2yo.

 

[Allegra]

They are Catholic, but not particularly devout. She is getting a lot of help from the parish right now and she’s really embarrassed about it. She feels like she hasn’t really been part of the parish until she needed help. They’ve been helping her with her rent and utilities and she has been seeing a Stephen Minister there as well. She’s trying to find ways to give her time to others, but it frequently doesn’t work out because of lack of childcare.