Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

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my 2 cents…it doesn’t really matter if the candidate is republican or democrat.
Both parties have prolife candidates and prochoice candidates.

abortion is not going to be overturned unless the supreme court re-rules. which is highly unlikely…or at least not anytime soon.

Women need to realize that abortion doesn’t make them UN pregnant.
If they could ever get that thru their heads…

abortions would go down!
Remember what happened with the arab uprising. How overnight, established tyrannies came tumbling down overnight. I suspect there will be a growing pro-life consiousness at some point and a ground swell of support to overturn the law will happen.
 
I listen to a lot of conservative talk and abortion does come up but gets very little mention. As I was told earlier it is not an issue. How sad that it is not an issue any more. Will it ever be again?

There seems to be an implication that I must be a liberal. Despite my disappointment with the broken pro-life promises since I first voted in 1968 I have voted for only one Democrat (he was pro-life). The Republican by the way, George Ryan, is still in prison.

christianpost.com/news/tea-party-member-to-run-against-john-boehner-in-ohio-primary-55919/
 
Random fact: Canada has universal healthcare, and they do not have a budget deficit.

The more you know 👍
Yes. And Canada does not discourage petroleum, mineral or timber development the way our government does. Those things provide jobs and money to an economy. Canada, under recent governance, has also striven to reduce expenditures relative to income; something our government resolutely refuses to do.

There is no cause-effect relationship between state medical care in Canada and its balanced budget.
 
my 2 cents…it doesn’t really matter if the candidate is republican or democrat.
Both parties have prolife candidates and prochoice candidates.

abortion is not going to be overturned unless the supreme court re-rules. which is highly unlikely…or at least not anytime soon.

Women need to realize that abortion doesn’t make them UN pregnant.
If they could ever get that thru their heads…

abortions would go down!
How do you reconcile voting for a pro-life candidate whose party platform allows for abortion? And if we are ever to get abortion over-turned, we need judges who will rule in harmony with our Constitution and not find loopholes (RvW) in it that are not there. Do you think we are going to get those kinds of judges from the Dems?
 
False. We do not have socialized healthcare. The bill that past was a watered down piece of trash, in my humble opinion. 👍
I could not agree more that Obamacare is garbage. And you’re right. Obama didn’t want it, Pelosi didn’t want it, the Dem house didn’t want it. They all wanted socialized healthcare. But some senate Dems didn’t want to lose their seats by voting for it, so Obamacare came into being. It was designed to fail, and will fail. The left figures they’ll get a Canadian-type system out of the failure. The right…not sure what it wants, but will probably coalesce around a sort of mixed system like that of France. But yes, Obamacare will fail, and its failure will be a mess.
 
Pretty far out.
When the plan repeatedly fails it seems to me you have to rethink your strategy. If you are more committed to the plan than the goal then changing it up might not be important. I can come up with any number of other ideas that are less ‘far out’. How about refusing to stand and sing the national anthem to show that you can not in good conscious support a state that creates the right to kill fetuses? How about refusing to serve or encourage others to in an army that enshrines the power of the immoral government? Those aren’t all that radical and can be done quite easily.
G.W. Bush appointed two prolife justices, the absolutely incorrect slanders of Roberts notwithstanding. If one reads the Carhart decision, it is plain that Roberts did not endorse the Roe decision
You are right that I claimed Roberts said something which he did not. He said Roe was settled law. He did not say he would never overturn it. Having said that I’d be happy to bet any amount of money that abortion will not be overturned by the SCOTUS in my lifetime.
The only people who claim Republicans dont do anything about limiting abortion or trying to end it are those who claim to be pro-life but consistently vote for pro-abortion candates.
That is easily disproved by me. I do no vote for pro abortion candidates. To the best of my knoweldge I never have voted for such a candidate.
 
It doesn’t take a dictatorship to reverse Roe, it takes people voting against pro-abortion presidential and senatorial candidates consistently and insistently, something far too many Catholics and protestants alike, refuse to do.
One can only wonder how quickly abortion would become a thing of the past if the Catholic bishops unequivocally opposed not just abortion but the politicians who support it. Instead of offering another vague, find-what-you-want document on our political obligations, if they came out with a one sentence condemnation of politicians who support abortion there is little doubt that it could be eliminated. Catholics represent about 25% of the vote but since they evenly split between pro and anti abortion politicians, as a voting block they have little influence. What a waste.

Ender
 
Hello all,

There seems to be a lot of discussion about overturning Roe v Wade, as if that is the litmus test that will determine success of failure in the fight to defend life. Let’s be imaginative and assume for argument’s sake, that overturning Roe v Wade would end all abortions…success! Even if we can not make this happen in our lifetimes, the incremental steps that are made by pro-life candidates save bodies and souls along the way. Likewise, while Christ’s hope is that all souls on Earth will accept Him as their Lord and Saviour(…success!), He doesn’t give up on the INDIVIDUALS along the way…that is you and me. We can talk about the success ratio of pro-life tactics such as social change, political tactics, counseling, etc. all day long, and there is plenty of room for debate. BUT…there is no room is God’s law for us to support people doing the wrong thing. This is by Biblical definition SCANDAL! Therefore, while we could have an abortion doctor to our home for dinner in order to witness to them, we could not support their Planned Parenthood clinic with financial support. Likewise, we can try to witness to politicians to change their hearts and minds on this topic, but we must vote Pro-Life!

Vivat Jesus!
 
One can only wonder how quickly abortion would become a thing of the past if the Catholic bishops unequivocally opposed not just abortion but the politicians who support it. Instead of offering another vague, find-what-you-want document on our political obligations, if they came out with a one sentence condemnation of politicians who support abortion there is little doubt that it could be eliminated. Catholics represent about 25% of the vote but since they evenly split between pro and anti abortion politicians, as a voting block they have little influence. What a waste.

Ender
Well stated. I agree that this could be one BIG part of the solution!
 
Having said that I’d be happy to bet any amount of money that abortion will not be overturned by the SCOTUS in my lifetime.
I guess that’s a level of cynicism I’m not yet ready to rise (or fall) to.

I think it illustrates well the strategy of the Democrats. They would like nothing more than to move beyond the issue of abortion altogether and get pro-life people to simply despair that things can ever change and give up the fight. It’s the only way they can win when the majority of the populace do not support abortion-on-demand.

I have more hope than that. History is full of seemingly unlikely and dramatic changes. Slavery ended. The Berlin Wall came down and Communism crumbled. Abortion can certainly end within my lifetime.

The present constituency of the SCOTUS is so close to being in a position to reverse Roe v. Wade. If Obama was not the one to appoint Stevens’ and Souter’s successors, the SCOTUS could quite possibly have a pro-life majority right now.

Yes, Republican presidents and their appointed Justices are not a sure path to success. However, Democratic presidents and their appointed Justices are a sure path to defeat.

Not be partisan or anything. 😛 :o
 
I think it illustrates well the strategy of the Democrats. They would like nothing more than to move beyond the issue of abortion altogether and get pro-life people to simply despair that things can ever change and give up the fight. It’s the only way they can win when the majority of the populace do not support abortion-on-demand.
I feel like a broken record saying that I was convinced by this by Republican conservatives. I particularly remember reading the great Catholic writer Joe Sobran, who no one can deny was a consistent strong advocate for life, discuss this utter failure by Republicans to do anything.

Maybe the Democrats do have this strategy. But it is just as likely the Republicans have a strategy to keep failing to do anything serious about abortion so that they always have the vote from anti abortion folks. The latter is more likely since I’ve voted plenty of times for Republicans who are going to roll back government and end abortion. I never once got what I voted for. Never. And they had won like they said they needed to in order to accomplish their goals.

The Constituion Party actually has the completely correct platform regarding abortion. If you are going to get political results switch to voting for them. If abortion is so bad and people are so willing to undo it by the political process it should be no problem getting all those folks to switch their support to this party. But it will never, ever happen. As soon as people start talking about the Constitution Party folks say they have no shot of winning. Maybe so. But when I the argument that the Republicans have won and have done nothing I’m told to keep trying with them. I guess I just dont get it.
 
Maybe the Democrats do have this strategy. But it is just as likely the Republicans have a strategy to keep failing to do anything serious about abortion so that they always have the vote from anti abortion folks. The latter is more likely since I’ve voted plenty of times for Republicans who are going to roll back government and end abortion.
Name a single Republican who ever claimed he could end abortion. Is this a claim the Constitution Party makes?

Identify those things that are “serious about abortion” that could be done but haven’t been done.

Given that no law can prohibit abortion, just exactly what would you expect from the Constitution Party that you claim the Republicans have not done?

Ender
 
Given that no law can prohibit abortion, just exactly what would you expect from the Constitution Party that you claim the Republicans have not done?
Oh, well the Republican party gave us the court that produced Roe vs. Wade, creating a federal right to abortion. Republican courts subsequently upheld that decision. So I would be hoping for a party that did not create abortion and sustain it.
 
I’ve talked to several lawyers, one I knew was pro-life, and they just don’t see it as a possibility that Roe V Wade will be overturned in any circumstance besides maybe judicial activism.
 
I feel like a broken record saying that I was convinced by this by Republican conservatives.
That’s not an uncommon phenomenon in these threads. 😃

I understand where you’re coming from. Is it possible that Republicans are taking advantage of the pro-life voting block? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion for every single Republican. Even if Roe v. Wade was overturned tomorrow, the pro-life issue would not disappear. Pro-choice people still vote based on a politician’s pro-choice voting record, even though abortion is the law of the land. Politicians will still need to work for keeping abortion illegal (or at least in the hands of the states) even after Roe v. Wade is overturned. So I’m not sold on the idea that Republicans need to covertly maintain the status quo of abortion-on-demand in order to garner votes. I don’t think they do.

Yes, I am aware of the historical makeup of the SCOTUS at the time of Roe v. Wade on down to the present. And, yes, the Republicans don’t have a spotless record when it comes to appointing pro-life Justices to the Supreme Court. But their record is much better than the Democrats which is precisely zero. I’ll take anything over zero.

I would love it if a third party more in-line with Catholic teaching had a legitimate shot at the presidency. But we’re not there yet. I think a party would have to establish itself and meet with some proven success on the local level before they would ever have a good shot at the presidency.

I have difficulty understanding why so many pro-life people seemed to switch gears in 2008. For me, it was like a runner stopping five steps shy of the finish line and deciding to go back and retrace his steps to find a better route to the white tape. We knew that Stevens and Souter would be retiring soon. And we knew that Obama would replace them with pro-choice Justices. We didn’t know for certain that McCain would replace them with pro-life Justices. But the chance was better than zero. And even if just one of the two were pro-life, that would have tipped the balance of the Court to the pro-life side.
 
I’ve talked to several lawyers, one I knew was pro-life, and they just don’t see it as a possibility that Roe V Wade will be overturned in any circumstance besides maybe judicial activism.
Well, judicial activism is what led to the decision in the first place…

I guess I’m more optimistic than that. History is full of bad SCOTUS decisions that were overturned (e.g. Plessy vs. Ferguson). I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to think it would happen again. If we get one more pro-life Justice on the Court, have a red state pass a law criminalizing abortion which gets challeneged and makes it’s way up to the Supreme Court. Then, voila, we have a great opportunity for Roe v. Wade to be overturned.

It’s certainly possible that I am naïve in my optimism. But I think naïve optimism puts us in a better position to overturn the decision than self-fulfilling pessimism.
 
Well, judicial activism is what led to the decision in the first place…

I guess I’m more optimistic than that. History is full of bad SCOTUS decisions that were overturned (e.g. Plessy vs. Ferguson). I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to think it would happen again. If we get one more pro-life Justice on the Court, have a red state pass a law criminalizing abortion which gets challeneged and makes it’s way up to the Supreme Court. Then, voila, we have a great opportunity for Roe v. Wade to be overturned.

It’s certainly possible that I am naïve in my optimism. But I think naïve optimism puts us in a better position to overturn the decision than self-fulfilling pessimism.
I agree. But I will also say that overruling Roe isn’t all there is to think about.

During the last previous administration, there were a lot of actions taken to limit abortion and to avoid taxpayers having to fund it. Obama has dismantled those. As we know, Sebelius recently required that abortifacients like Ella and the “morning after” pill be paid for 100% by insurers (meaning their customers) and left almost no room for conscientious objection to carrying policies like that. The forces of death march on, and nothing will stop that march except throwing them all out of office, starting with Obama and the Democrat majority in the Senate.
 
I have difficulty understanding why so many pro-life people seemed to switch gears in 2008. For me, it was like a runner stopping five steps shy of the finish line and deciding to go back and retrace his steps to find a better route to the white tape. We knew that Stevens and Souter would be retiring soon. And we knew that Obama would replace them with pro-choice Justices. We didn’t know for certain that McCain would replace them with pro-life Justices. But the chance was better than zero. And even if just one of the two were pro-life, that would have tipped the balance of the Court to the pro-life side.
For me it was 2000. I knew Bush would be like his dad. In my opinion he could turn on the religious charm much more authentically than many politicians which frightened me. His campaign promise of a humble foreign policy was quickly forgotten even by his supporters. When he and the Republican party pushed through the biggest expansion of the welfare state since LBJ my suspicions were confirmed.

But, if you need some reason why folks have given up on the Republicans here is one from today.
Conservatives Stop New Boehner CR That Permitted Funding for Obamacare, Planned Parenthood, Palestinian Authority
cnsnews.com/news/article/conservatives-stop-new-boehner-cr-permitted-funding-obamacare-planned-parenthood

Republicans could defund Planned Parenthood right now as they could have any time they have controlled the House. They never have. The leadership and *most *Republicans want to keep funding it.
 
For me it was 2000. I knew Bush would be like his dad. In my opinion he could turn on the religious charm much more authentically than many politicians which frightened me. His campaign promise of a humble foreign policy was quickly forgotten even by his supporters. When he and the Republican party pushed through the biggest expansion of the welfare state since LBJ my suspicions were confirmed.

So it was “religious charm” he turned on?. I know this is hard to believe for someone who
holds your views, but the many times Bush was private with people who had gone through
a tragedy (some revealed by the families) and a few revealed by reporters who had caught
wind of a visit to the wounded, he used that “charm” to pray with them and to thank them
for their prayers for him. Those were the actions of a person who prays, not one who
just “charms”. As for his “humble” (?) foreign policy, the events of 9-11 changed that and
rightly so.

Don’t have time to comment on the rest now, but will do so later
 
So it was “religious charm” he turned on?. I know this is hard to believe for someone who holds your views, but the many times Bush was private with people who had gone through a tragedy (some revealed by the families) and a few revealed by reporters who had caught wind of a visit to the wounded, he used that “charm” to pray with them and to thank them for their prayers for him. Those were the actions of a person who prays, not one who just “charms”.
I judge it to be a put on. It is not like it is unusual to put on religion. There are plenty of regular folks who do. Anything a politician does should be met with extra skepticism. None of us know how he really is in private. We do know when he thought the mikes were off he called someone a ‘major league *******’. The stories you relate are really public events with restricted attendance. Ultimately I dont know his true convictions, nor do you. I find it safer to ignore his proclamations, especially when his actions are largely inconsistent with his words.
As for his “humble” (?) foreign policy, the events of 9-11 changed that and rightly so.
9-11 didn’t really change things it just amplified them and by things I mean the US prerogative to make war on the world. I dont think 9-11 dictated invading another country based on a web of lies. You can still be humble when defending yourself. In fact character is most revealed in difficult situations, not easy ones.
 
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