Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

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You are claiming that an attack that multiple investigations by both the US and Israeli government concluded was an accident was in fact intentional. If you believe the investigators were wrong unintentionally, you clearly have an opinion of our government that is far too low. If you believe it was a coverup intended to hide the fact that the attack was intentional, you are pushing a conspiracy theory.
That “conspiracy theory” as you call it is not only supported by the testimony and accounts of the sailors who were there and the evidence (especially that leading up to the attack) but also by Secretary of State Dean Rusk, NSA Deputy Director Louis Tordella, CIA Director Richard Helms, and a long list of other Administration officials and Admirals.
 
Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It’s also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event! :mad:
If I had made a statement like that in another thread I wold be accused of anti-semitism.

this is why as long as the US supports Israel I would rather sit in a jail cell before ever thinking about a military career. Draft or not - Count me out.
 
The difference is that the U.S. Coast Guard has never dropped armed commandos onto a civilian humanitarian vessel 80 miles into international waters and gunned down the people onboard let alone with the premeditated intention of hijacking the vessel…
I can assure you that if the Coast Guard met with an armed response when boarding a vessel, they would have used deadly force as well.

So then it becomes, were the activists armed when the IDF came aboard. Did they attempt armed resistance?

If they were armed, then it was not a humanitarian ship.
 
That “conspiracy theory” as you call it is not only supported by the testimony and accounts of the sailors who were there and the evidence (especially that leading up to the attack) but also by Secretary of State Dean Rusk, NSA Deputy Director Louis Tordella, CIA Director Richard Helms, and a long list of other Administration officials and Admirals.
There are always those who are wholly uncritical about Israel, who consider any criticism of that state as antiSemitism, and who defend it even in indefensible circumstances. After all, they are “the only democratic country” in the region so they are to be forgiven anything and everything on that account. 🤷
 
After all, they are “the only democratic country” in the region so they are to be forgiven anything and everything on that account. 🤷
Any true believer in democracy and liberty would support a liberal democracy before supporting tyranny.
 
Any true believer in democracy and liberty would support a liberal democracy before supporting tyranny.
Being a democracy is no guarantee that it is a good nation. That is not a rug under which all their wrongs can be swept.
 
Brinksmanship in 2010. My guess is I could be critical of Isreal or Hamas or the such, but I think we are just waiting for more developments on nuclear warheads and rockets.
 
That’s up to the Japanese, not up to us.

Interesting that you don’t differentiate between allies and enemies.

There is no date certain. There are those still seriously angry with the Union about the Civil War. But, tell me, what would you like? A century, 75 years, a dozen years?

I know we do. But, I don’t give a rat’s patootee about whom we spy against. I do about who spies against us. Or should we overlook Chinese and Russian espionage against us the same way? Gee, we spy against Russia so it’s just grand that they do it against us.
Ok so you dodged every point. Nicely done.
 
Your source for that?
ussliberty.org/ncitext.htm
From the U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry- “Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on LIBERTY on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity.”

thelibertyincident.com/docs/CIAreports.pdf
From the CIA-“The attack was not made in malice toward the U.S. and was by mistake, but the failure of the IDF Headquarters and the attacking aircraft to identify the Liberty and the subsequent attack by torpedo boats were both incongruous and indicative of gross negligence.”
 
Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It’s also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event! :mad:
Quite right, quite right. Israel has placed itself beyond the pale - it’s a rogue state, pure and simple. I for one will firmly be supporting a boycott of all Israeli goods, as is being called for by many in this country. I sincerely hope that Britain follows Turkey’s example, and promptly expels the Israeli ambassador, as a precursor to real sanctions against this nation.

Those who have said that the activists were armed are wrong. Everyone on the convoy went through airport-style security checks before being allowed onboard the vessels. Those who confronted the Israeli commandos defended themselves with sticks, they were no real threat to a heavily armed, well trained group of Special Forces.

This deplorable attack (to use the words of UK Foreign Secretary William Hague) has had a particular effect on me, as one those onboard the convoy was the brother of an old schoolfriend of mine, speaking to another member of the family today, they as to his condition. The family aren’t Islamic extremists - his father is a University professor here in Scotland, and none of the women wear the burqa. None of the convoy were Islamic extremists - they included a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and a survivor of the Holocaust.

Opposition to the state of Israel is nothing to do with anti-Semitism. I support the right of Jews to defend themselves, whether in the Warsaw Ghetto, or against the real anti-Semites of the modern age. I would never have anything to do with the tiny groups claiming to support the Palestinian people who use their suffering as an excuse to broadcast anti-Semitic ideas. What I strongly oppose is the use of disproportionate violence against peaceful civilians by the Israeli state. The Israeli state does not represent the Jewish people, as so many Jews will tell you. In this country for example, we have an organisation known as ‘Scottish Jews for a Just Peace’, which does a lot of excellent work around the Palestinian issue.
 
Quite right, quite right. Israel has placed itself beyond the pale - it’s a rogue state, pure and simple. I for one will firmly be supporting a boycott of all Israeli goods, as is being called for by many in this country. I sincerely hope that Britain follows Turkey’s example, and promptly expels the Israeli ambassador, as a precursor to real sanctions against this nation.

Those who have said that the activists were armed are wrong. Everyone on the convoy went through airport-style security checks before being allowed onboard the vessels. Those who confronted the Israeli commandos defended themselves with sticks, they were no real threat to a heavily armed, well trained group of Special Forces.

This deplorable attack (to use the words of UK Foreign Secretary William Hague) has had a particular effect on me, as one those onboard the convoy was the brother of an old schoolfriend of mine, speaking to another member of the family today, they as to his condition. The family aren’t Islamic extremists - his father is a University professor here in Scotland, and none of the women wear the burqa. None of the convoy were Islamic extremists - they included a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and a survivor of the Holocaust.

Opposition to the state of Israel is nothing to do with anti-Semitism. I support the right of Jews to defend themselves, whether in the Warsaw Ghetto, or against the real anti-Semites of the modern age. I would never have anything to do with the tiny groups claiming to support the Palestinian people who use their suffering as an excuse to broadcast anti-Semitic ideas. What I strongly oppose is the use of disproportionate violence against peaceful civilians by the Israeli state. The Israeli state does not represent the Jewish people, as so many Jews will tell you. In this country for example, we have an organisation known as ‘Scottish Jews for a Just Peace’, which does a lot of excellent work around the Palestinian issue.
Unfortunately there’s another organization that is far more powerful - AIPAC.
 
and you can’t stand when somebody speaks the truth about Israel and its racist policies.
No - I’m not a leftist before you carry on about it.
Was I talking about you? The answer is “NO”

The left does not like it when ANYONE uses self-defense. Hence, gun-control laws.
 
Was I talking about you?
You weren’t talking about one person, but you seem quite happy to use ‘Left’ as a dirty word to discredit genuine supporters of the Palestinian cause.

I’m not a Leftist, I have never voted for a Socialist party, yet I firmly support the rights of the Palestinian people and oppose the disproportionate actions of the Israeli state.
 
Was I talking about you? The answer is “NO”

The left does not like it when ANYONE uses self-defense. Hence, gun-control laws.
It has nothing to do with defense those are two completely different issues. The Right is run by evangelical christians who believe Iraael must be protected at all costs - after all the Jews are “Gods chosen people.”
The left has no such beliefs. This is one area where Catholicism and the left agree - Jews are NOT Gods chosen people.
 
Was I talking about you? The answer is “NO”

The left does not like it when ANYONE uses self-defense. Hence, gun-control laws.
And it’s my understanding that a lot of the more radical Leftist groups, such as the Black Panthers in the 1960s in your country, actually marched against gun control.
 
Let’s get a grasp on the legal issues here, shall we?

" Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;" *

'Nuff said…unless, of course, one WANTS to blame “those dirty Jews!” for everything. Israel, once again, has defended itself, after having given more than ample warning.

Source: icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce
*

(continues to (f), but only these first two are relevant in this case)*
 
and you can’t stand when somebody speaks the truth about Israel and its racist policies.
No - I’m not a leftist before you carry on about it.
LOL
Israel is just about the LEAST racist country on the face of the planet! Jews come in from across the world: Ethiopia, China, Africa, Europe, South America, Russia, etc. Israel is an ethnic melting pot!
Even the Arabs, who chose not to do as they were told by the Arab states during Israel’s War of Independence and flee, are free citizens, with the same rights as Jews - and not, obviously all of the same duties!

So cut this populist BS about Israel being “racist”. It’s anything but.
 
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