Defending the Catholic Faith

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Newbie2 said:
Not all of us were made to be preachers.

Perhaps it would be easier to start with what you believe to be the gospel?
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Just simply proclaim the gospel in which you hold to. It is very difficult to take you guys seriously in that I hold to a different gospel under the curse of God… if not one Catholic is able to proclaim the good news of God to someone who is sincerly asking. I am gently and respectfully asking for you to share the hope that you have according to your gospel.

1 Peter 3:15

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
 
I believe I did ask, first, that you give us YOUR gospel. Just so that we know what your idea of ‘preaching’ and gospel etc. are. I mean, we thought that giving you authoritative sources for teaching would be helpful and you’ll have none of them. So give us the example, you tell us your gospel.
 
2nd_Adam said:
Just simply proclaim the gospel in which you hold to. It is very difficult to take you guys seriously in that I hold to a different gospel under the curse of God… if not one Catholic is able to proclaim the good news of God to someone who is sincerly asking. I am gently and respectfully asking for you to share the hope that you have according to your gospel.
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🤷

OK.

Jesus is Lord.

Jesus established his Church here on earth as his bride. He left her here to instruct us about the rest of the faith.
 
See, Adam, that makes two of us. Please give us an example, according to the Scripture you were kind enough to share with us. Give us an example of what you believe so that we can tell what WE believe.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I believe I did ask, first, that you give us YOUR gospel. Just so that we know what your idea of ‘preaching’ and gospel etc. are. I mean, we thought that giving you authoritative sources for teaching would be helpful and you’ll have none of them. So give us the example, you tell us your gospel.
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You are just one of many Catholics on this site. Several Catholics claim that I hold to a different gospel under the curse of God. Therefore, share the gospel of God which saves sinners if you are able. I doubt that you know the biblical gospel.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
See, Adam, that makes two of us. Please give us an example, according to the Scripture you were kind enough to share with us. Give us an example of what you believe so that we can tell what WE believe.
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The gospel is simply good news which is outside of ourselves. It is independent of our personal beliefs, What is the gospel of God, or what is the objective good news of God?
 
we are saved by the grace of God.
God has given us the Church , which is the “bride of Christ” to lead us and teach us in the faith, so that we may hear the word.
God instituted the Church so that the faithful should have guidence.

those who are saved are those who hear the word and believe. and who do the will of God

the most important part of this is , of course, believing that Jesus Christ is Lord, the only begotten son of God. He tells us that the will of God is to Preach HIS Gospel, to follow the teachings as revealed through the Apostles, etc. (which includes a church. the bride of Christ)

the central tenets of the faith are written in the Apostles Creed. (born of the Virgin Mary, etc)

Protestants, historically,
have chosen to drop books from the Bible that make them uncomfortable… (including books that include statements about Purgatory) this is one of the most notable things that makes us suspect a false Gospel in many protestant churches The King James Bible was specifically (and by direct instruction) re translated to make it fit Protestant ideas.

they have chosen to break away form the Vicar of Christ… Christs appointed successor to the Apostle Peter. who is charged to “feed my sheep” and Shephard the flock…
Losing most of the Apostolic Succession in the same breath…

many of them have stopped celebrating the Sacrifice of the Eucharist… which was instituted by Christ himself… and many of those that still do make some observance of it no longer believe that it is truly Christ present with us.

on minor points? (or more minor)
Defamed, and lost respect for His (and our ) Mother Mary
promulgated or at least ignored murder/abortion
and more.

WE are the flock. We should heed our Shepard until the Lord returns.

and you are being less than clear about what the heck you want. and why you have refused several very excellent references.
 
2nd_Adam said:
The gospel is simply good news which is outside of ourselves. It is independent of our personal beliefs, What is the gospel of God, or what is the objective good news of God?
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We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

That is my answer to your question. 👍
 
2nd_Adam said:
Please simply proclaim the true gospel to me if you are able. No links are necessary if you truly know the true gospel which Paul preached to sinners.

1 Corinthians 9:16
For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!
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The Gospel of Paul and the apostles is: “Jesus Christ Crucified” which is the message from the Apostolic Catholic Church. The Gospels on the other hand are the written teachings and eyewitness accounts of Jesus ministry including his birth, death, resurrection and ascension.

The meat of the Gospel of Paul is “Christ Crucified” a stumbling block to unbelievers and salvation to those whom God calls to his table.

The key now is where do we find this Jesus Christ Crucified? The only “do this in remembrance of me” belonging to the Crucified Christ is in his body, blood soul divinity true presence his “Eucharist”.
 
Newbie2 said:
How come I KNEW this is how you’d respond? You ask, we tell, you reject.

So if that’s not the Gospel, I ask YOU in gentleness, where did I err?
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Please let me help my separate brethrens, step brothers, or 1/2 brothers, and I will help you understand the gospel according to the Scriptures. Now, if the gospel according to the Scriptures is not the Catholic Gospel, then someone is believing and proclaiming a different gospel.

**Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures **and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. - Apostle Paul
 
fabricdragon said:
we are saved by the grace of God.
God has given us the Church , which is the “bride of Christ” to lead us and teach us in the faith, so that we may hear the word.
God instituted the Church so that the faithful should have guidence.

those who are saved are those who hear the word and believe. and who do the will of God

the most important part of this is , of course, believing that Jesus Christ is Lord, the only begotten son of God. He tells us that the will of God is to Preach HIS Gospel, to follow the teachings as revealed through the Apostles, etc. (which includes a church. the bride of Christ)

the central tenets of the faith are written in the Apostles Creed. (born of the Virgin Mary, etc)

Protestants, historically,
have chosen to drop books from the Bible that make them uncomfortable… (including books that include statements about Purgatory) this is one of the most notable things that makes us suspect a false Gospel in many protestant churches The King James Bible was specifically (and by direct instruction) re translated to make it fit Protestant ideas.

they have chosen to break away form the Vicar of Christ… Christs appointed successor to the Apostle Peter. who is charged to “feed my sheep” and Shephard the flock…
Losing most of the Apostolic Succession in the same breath…

many of them have stopped celebrating the Sacrifice of the Eucharist… which was instituted by Christ himself… and many of those that still do make some observance of it no longer believe that it is truly Christ present with us.

on minor points? (or more minor)
Defamed, and lost respect for His (and our ) Mother Mary
promulgated or at least ignored murder/abortion
and more.

WE are the flock. We should heed our Shepard until the Lord returns.

and you are being less than clear about what the heck you want. and why you have refused several very excellent references.
Click to expand...
That is not the gospel proclaimed in the Scriptures.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
The Gospel of Paul and the apostles is: “Jesus Christ Crucified” which is the message from the Apostolic Catholic Church. The Gospels on the other hand are the written teachings and eyewitness accounts of Jesus ministry including his birth, death, resurrection and ascension.

The meat of the Gospel of Paul is “Christ Crucified” a stumbling block to unbelievers and salvation to those whom God calls to his table.

The key now is where do we find this Jesus Christ Crucified? The only “do this in remembrance of me” belonging to the Crucified Christ is in his body, blood soul divinity true presence his “Eucharist”.
Click to expand...
Please let me help you what Paul meant by Christ and Him crucified in his own words. This is the biblical gospel in a nutshell that I am proclaiming to you.

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Apostle Paul
 
Cathh(name removed by moderator) said:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

That is my answer to your question. 👍
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That is not the gospel proclaimed according to the Scriptures. Do you see Peter or Paul preaching this Christian creed in the book of Acts?

So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
Paul
 
2nd_Adam said:
Please let me help you what Paul meant by Christ and Him crucified in his own words. This is the biblical gospel in a nutshell that I am proclaiming to you.

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Apostle Paul
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Great now we are getting somewhere; The crucified one is being referenced here thank you for your confirmation scripture among the many. What you failed to include from Pauls short discourse of the crucified one is; “so that in him” has everything to do what Jesus did beginning at the last supper introducing the New covenant, and “it is finished” on the crosss. Thus the Mass and Jesus Christ crucified “remembrance” made present in his own body, blood sacifice in his Eucharist.

You do well to introduce Christ Crucified, but you have to finish it for “so that in him (his body and blood) we might become the righteousness of God”.

Unless you have another Gospel that explains how you are “in him”,( through him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit") that makes you righteous? because without the body, blood of Jesus no one is made righteous.

By the way the “in him”, clause is taken from scripture and recited in worship before almighty God in the Liturgy of the sacrificial “remembrance” in the Eucharist. In short what you have revealed here, Catholics not only read the scriptures we Live the scriptures out, when God’s word is living and True.

Peace be with you
 
2nd_Adam said:
That is not the gospel proclaimed according to the Scriptures. Do you see Peter or Paul preaching this Christian creed in the book of Acts?
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Therein lies part of your problem.

That creed is the COMMPLETE Scriptures in summary form!

The qoute in Paul’s Epistle you like is also in error since he was NOT citing the Scriptures as you have them.

Three reasons why;
  1. The Scriptures you have had NOT been determined in the form that you possess them.
  2. From the 66books of Scriptures in your possession, which ‘scriptures’ was Paul refering to?
  3. How can we or ANYONE trust that the Scriptures you possess mean anything, about anything, to anyone?
You do not need any Catholicity to validate any of the above three. But you need to ‘trust’ Catholicism, to validate ALL THREE.

It is not so much that you have an erroneous gospel, but more that you only have a portion of it, and a limited understanding to define what you have against any other Christian, be they Catholic or not.

:cool:
 
Deconi said:
Therein lies part of your problem.

That creed is the COMMPLETE Scriptures in summary form!

The qoute in Paul’s Epistle you like is also in error since he was NOT citing the Scriptures as you have them.

Three reasons why;
  1. The Scriptures you have had NOT been determined in the form that you possess them.
  2. From the 66books of Scriptures in your possession, which ‘scriptures’ was Paul refering to?
  3. How can we or ANYONE trust that the Scriptures you possess mean anything, about anything, to anyone?
You do not need any Catholicity to validate any of the above three. But you need to ‘trust’ Catholicism, to validate ALL THREE.

It is not so much that you have an erroneous gospel, but more that you only have a portion of it, and a limited understanding to define what you have against any other Christian, be they Catholic or not.

:cool:
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The creed is not the gospel which the Apostles preached! Please, let me help you.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, **“The righteous shall live by faith.” ** - Paul
 
First, the gospel doesn’t simply means good news. People would ask you what that good news is. It will easily expand from there. And then you will be confronted with questions if you are telling them truths or not.

Anybody can say that the gospel is the good news of salvation. And anybody can easily negate that. But how can it be distorted? Did Paul meant something more than just that? Of course! He meant also the Sacred Tradition of the Church besides the WHOLE being of our Lord Jesus Christ (as mentioned by Gabriel of 12 in here) - His life, death, resurrection, and ascension as gospel. And remember that there was no NT books at the time of Paul.

Now if I come to you and proclaim to you just the good news and I will add… “I will have to baptize you in the name of the God of Moses, the Redeemer, and the Comforter” did I distort what has been the Tradition of the Church? Is it okay to you?
 
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