Defending the Catholic Faith

[2nd_Adam]

First, the gospel doesn’t simply means good news. People would ask you what that good news is. It will easily expand from there. And then you will be confronted with questions if you are telling them truths or not.

Anybody can say that the gospel is the good news of salvation. And anybody can easily negate that. But how can it be distorted? Did Paul meant something more than just that? Of course! He meant also the Sacred Tradition of the Church besides the WHOLE being of our Lord Jesus Christ (as mentioned by Gabriel of 12 in here) - His life, death, resurrection, and ascension as gospel. And remember that there was no NT books at the time of Paul.

Now if I come to you and proclaim to you just the good news and I will add… “I will have to baptize you in the name of the God of Moses, the Redeemer, and the Comforter” did I distort what has been the Tradition of the Church? Is it okay to you?

I think your answer is a non-bibilical answer that cannot be supported in sacred Scripture. Please read what Paul writes about the gospel.

**Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,** and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The gospel is a proclamation of what God has done for the unrighteous and the ungodly. It is the great good news of God that we tell the world and to the church. It is news apart from what we do, but rather it is news in what God has done in His Son. God sent His Son into this sin cursed world to die!

1 Corinthians 9:16
For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!

1 Corinthians 9:18
What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:23
I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

The gospel in a nutshell:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The gospel is a proclamation of what God has done for the unrighteous and the ungodly. It is the great good news of God that we tell the world and to the church. It is news apart from what we do, but rather it is news in what God has done in His Son. God sent His Son into this sin cursed world to die!

1 Corinthians 9:16
For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!

1 Corinthians 9:18
What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:23
I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

The gospel in a nutshell:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

"]“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; **but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.”—**1 Corinthians 1:23-24.

 

[thirdn6]

OK. Granting that we preach the same gospel (as preached by St Paul) still the question remains… why are you separated from us?

 

[2nd_Adam]

OK. Granting that we preach the same gospel (as preached by St Paul) still the question remains… why are you separated from us?

I can’t answer that, unless you think the Catholics who posted that a believe in a different gospel under the curse of God made an incorrect statement. It is so dumb to say that historic confessional Protestants hold to a different gospel under the curse of God on one hand, and on the other hand call us your separated brethren. Do you see my frustration!

 

[guanophore]

As Christians, we are commanded to to proclaim and defend the gospel of God. Since I apparently believe and proclaim a different gospel, here is your chance to defend the Catholic Faith. Why is my gospel different than your gospel?

Why did you post this here, instead of over in Apologetics? A lot of the defenders of the faith don’t visit here. You are more likely to get “non-Catholic” responses, I think.

Your gospel is different because you never received the True Gospel from the Apostles.

If you look at the language of the passage you posted, the Apostle “delivered” the message to them. They “received” that message. This is the paradosis. You never participated in this, and that is why your gospel is different.

Instead of receiving the faith as it was committed to the Church, you extracted what you believe it is from Scripture. This is not the method by which Jesus intended it to be passed.

 

[guanophore]

Do you agree with Guanophore that we historic confessional Protetstants believe in a different gospel under the curse which Paul speaks of? I don’t think the links to Catholic Answer tracts are offiicial Catholic sources of dogma. Catholic Answer tracts are not considered sacred written tradition, are they?

I would appreciate if you would refrain from misrepresenting my position. I never said anything about you being under a curse, or that the Pauline curse applied to you.

No, CAF tracts cite Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. They are sources of education about dogma.

 

[guanophore]

What is the gospel that you are not ashamed of? Please proclaim the gospel to me to help me understand where I am in error.

The faith committed to the Church by the Apostles is preserved by the HS, so that it does not contain errors. That faith is to be received from those appointed by Christ and empowered by Him to preserve and promulgate it.

Jesus never intended that the Gospel be extracted from scripture by those separated from the Sacred Tradition which produced it.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The gospel is proclaimed. It is good news that exist outside of ourselves. It is news in what God has done. It is not news about what we do.

Paul’s Ministry to the Thessalonians

For you yourselves know, brothers, that our coming to you was not in vain. But though we had already suffered and been shamefully treated at Philippi, as you know, we had boldness in our God to declare to you the gospel of God in the midst of much conflict. For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive, but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts. For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness. Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children. So, being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God but also our own selves, because you had become very dear to us.

For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
Paul

 

[2nd_Adam]

I would appreciate if you would refrain from misrepresenting my position. I never said anything about you being under a curse, or that the Pauline curse applied to you.

No, CAF tracts cite Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. They are sources of education about dogma.

There are several Catholics who stated in writing that I believe in a different gospel and applied the anathema revealed in Galatians 1. Here’s your chance to clarify what you believe. Do you believe historic confessional Protestants believe in a different gospel than you?

 

[thirdn6]

If you were born as a protestant you are not to be blamed of your beliefs BUT it is important for you to know that proclaiming the gospel means also proclaiming the truth. Absolute truths not distorted truths. And we all can trust that the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church teaches us all truths in matters of faith and morals. It’s time for you to come home.

God bless you.

 

[2nd_Adam]

If you were born as a protestant you are not to be blamed of your beliefs BUT it is important for you to know that proclaiming the gospel means also proclaiming the truth. Absolute truths not distorted truths. And we all can trust that the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church teaches us all truths in matters of faith and morals. It’s time for you to come home.

God bless you.

Nobody proclaims the entire truth of an Infinte God on this side of glory. However, the truth of the gospel can be known by those who believe.

Galatians 2

Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the** truth of the gospel **might be preserved for you. And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul Opposes Peter

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Justified by Faith

We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Gal 2

 

[guanophore]

I think several staunch die hard Catholics have turned up the discussion and friendly debate a few notches.

Are you suggesting that I am a “die hard Catholic” ?

I was told that I believe in a different gospel.

It is not your fault.

Therefore, in light of the Apostle Paul, someone is believing in a false gospel under the curse of God.

I think you have misunderstood Paul. That passage does not apply to you, no matter which side you are on, the delivery, or the receiver. You seem to be confused about which side should be cursed! Or do you think they are both cursed?

Please help me understand the true gospel by simply proclaiming the true gospel to me.

The Truth of the Gospel committed to Christ by the Church resides among those who are authorized. Jesus trained and commissioned His Apostles. They passed their authority to their disciples, the bishops. The Bishops were charged to guard what had been entrusted to them. Many have come along over the course of the last 2000 years and separated themselves from the Apostolic Succession. The largest separation occurrred 500 years ago during the Reformation. At that time, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented. Men who were separated from the paradosis had no recourse but to attempt to extract the Gospel from the pages of scripture.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I think several staunch die hard Catholics have turned up the discussion and friendly debate a few notches. I was told that I believe in a different gospel. Therefore, in light of the Apostle Paul, someone is believing in a false gospel under the curse of God. Please help me understand the true gospel by simply proclaiming the true gospel to me.

More specifically, you believe in a slightly distorted and incomplete gospel.

You have rejected those sent by Christ, but you cling to the Truth as you comprehend it.

Jesus has so much more for you if you will humble yourself and truly seek the truth.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Are you suggesting that I am a “die hard Catholic” ?

It is not your fault.

I think you have misunderstood Paul. That passage does not apply to you, no matter which side you are on, the delivery, or the receiver. You seem to be confused about which side should be cursed! Or do you think they are both cursed?

The Truth of the Gospel committed to Christ by the Church resides among those who are authorized. Jesus trained and commissioned His Apostles. They passed their authority to their disciples, the bishops. The Bishops were charged to guard what had been entrusted to them. Many have come along over the course of the last 2000 years and separated themselves from the Apostolic Succession. The largest separation occurrred 500 years ago during the Reformation. At that time, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented. Men who were separated from the paradosis had no recourse but to attempt to extract the Gospel from the pages of scripture.

I wil continue to ask you as well as many other Catholics, please proclaim the true gospel to me according to the Apostles.

 

[guanophore]

I think when Paul and the Apostles proclaimed the good news of God, it was something much different....  What is the gospel according to the Apostle Paul?

It would be an error to think that what Paul preached as “gospel” was any different than what all the Apostles taught.

No Other Gospel - by Paul

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

If you look at this passage, you will see that Paul is writing to those who received his Apostolic preaching. You have never received this.

 

[2nd_Adam]

More specifically, you believe in a slightly distorted and incomplete gospel.

You have rejected those sent by Christ, but you cling to the Truth as you comprehend it.

Jesus has so much more for you if you will humble yourself and truly seek the truth.

Okay, if I believe in a distorted and incomplete gospel, please proclaim the true complete and undistorted gospel according to the Apostles.

 

[2nd_Adam]

It would be an error to think that what Paul preached as “gospel” was any different than what all the Apostles taught.

If you look at this passage, you will see that Paul is writing to those who received his Apostolic preaching. You have never received this.

You guys write about everything except the gospel. I am convinced that Catholics are unable to proclaim the true gospel to me.

Romans 1:15

So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Okay, if I believe in a distorted and incomplete gospel, please proclaim the true complete and undistorted gospel according to the Apostles.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”

This is the crucial piece that you are missing.

 

[2nd_Adam]

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”

This is the crucial piece that you are missing.

I’m sorry… but LOL (not to be disrespectful). I am asking for you to proclaim the gospel to me.

Acts 8:25
Now when they had testified and spoken the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel to many villages of the Samaritans.

Acts 8:40
But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

Acts 14:7
and there they continued to preach the gospel.

Acts 14:21
When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,

Acts 15:7
And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Acts 16:10
And when Paul[1] had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.

Acts 20:24
But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.