Defending the Catholic Faith

[2nd_Adam]

Same gospel, just missing a few books and require in some Protestant endorsed versions, some minor edits in it’s texts, but it’s very much the same gospel, same God. Not sure it merited an entire thread, but alas, 4 pages into it, guess some people need to have a hobby, lol.

God speed with you all my brothers and sisters

Ok, back to the thread that hijacked mine into this one. Don’t expect a response from me here, this is just a crazy indulgence, figured I’d respond and point right back to it… forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=383970&goto=newpost

Well you know, there is alot of competition on this Catholic Forum site. You have to create something that is out of the ordinary if you want others to read it. I’m sorry this thread hijacked yours. I’ll check it out. I have to admit, this Catholic Christian Forum site is much more fun than your typical Evangelical Protestant Forum site.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, no Protestant nor Cathollic, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Revised Adam addition - Galatians 3

 

[why_me]

It is not loving to confirm people in error.

Not really, especially when it comes to religion. In faith, we all can confirm people in error according to our own interpretation. It becomes a hamster wheel to no where.

 

[2nd_Adam]

In your current state, you may view it this way.

In spiritual eternal reality, there are only two current states that people are in. You are either currently united to the 1st Adam, or by the grace of God alone, you are united to the 2nd Adam (Jesus Christ). You cannot be temporaily united to Christ then remove from the kingdom of His Son back to the kingdom of the devil. God’s grace is greater than that, because those who are adopted into the family of God, are secure in His Son. Maybe us confessional Protestants can spiritually see the work of Christ for wretched sinners much clearer than Catholic Christians?

Thanksgiving and Prayer

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. - our favorite Apostle Paul

 

[2nd_Adam]

This is how the pattern goes. You already have in your head what you believe to be true.

You challenge others to tell you their point of view. They tell, then you respond that they are wrong, because it does not agree with your preconceived notions. Do you see how this might make any meaningful dialogue difficult?

Indeed this is a very true statement. You are approaching this task from the position of “I doubt”. That frame of mind will make it very difficult for you to see anything from a different point of view than your own.

You are also correct that most Catholics are unable to articulate what you refer to as “the biblical gospel”. This is because it is a recent innovation of the Reformation. Catholics, if they know their faith at all, are versed in the Apostolic gospel, which predated the bible by 400 years, and did not mysteriously disappear when some of it was written down and canonized.

A little more condescending attitude to demonstrate your gentleness?

Actually, if there is a difference, it is in your perceptions of the meaning of the Scriptures. Since the NT was written by Catholics, there is nothing in it that contradicts Catholic Teaching. That was one of the standards for canonization. No books that had any content inconsistent with Apostolic Teaching preserved in the Church were permitted in the NT.

One of those conditional statements (if) and a reference that it is possible to fall from the faith.

You seem to enjoy defending the Catholic Faith, but you sure don’t seem to have a passion of proclaiming the gospel of God’s amazing grace found in His Son. The two are not necessarily the same things.

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - Paul

Ephesians 4

Unity in the Body of Christ

I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I would also like to know this. If he does want links to the Vatican website and the Catechism, he should know that they are often harder to understand than the tracts at Catholic Answers. Catholic Answers tracts all have an imprimatur and/or a nihil obstat. This means that they teach the faith correctly.

Anyway, here’s a link to the Catechism and a link to the Vatican’s website:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

vatican.va/

Thanks for the links. I’m familar with both the Catechism and sources from Catholic Answers. I’ve heard American Catholicism has too much Protestantism in it. Maybe that’s a good thing… it seems to be rubbing off on Pope Benedict (see link below).

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Catholic faith does not need defending and your faith does not need attacking nor does it need defending. You seem to be a good person who is grounded in Christ. That is good enough for me. And many catholics on this forum are also good people who are grounded in Christ.

Now of course I am mainly on the Mormon threads defending the LDS church. I think that mormons are good people who are also grounded in Christ. All different faiths and yet all striving to get closer to Christ. And that is also good enough for me. Too many christians are battling it out on the internet declaring who is right and who is wrong. Let there be love and harmony and care and nurturing and maybe we can all create a better world.

Thank you for the kind words. I believe there are Catholics and Protestants, Orthodox, and Anglicans who are united to Christ because those who are in Christ know God through the biblical Jesus Christ. I have good friends who are of the LDS Faith. According to the light of biblical revelation, I do not believe that LDS Christans are part of the true body of Christ. But thanks again for sharing. You can trust the Scriptures alone to point you to the living Jesus Christ. Historical Christianity was never apostate; therefore, the restoration movement of the LDS Church is not true. Repent my LDS friend and turn to the Jesus Christ as revealed in the Scriptures. The Triune God is the One True God worthy of all of our affection, worship, loyalty and love. Jesus is God incarnate, who was sent by the Father to rescuse sinners from their sins. I sincerely believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints preaches a different gospel and a different Jesus than the one true gospel and the one true Jesus Christ.

Matthew 16:18

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (this verse is not owned by Catholic Christians).

John 8:24

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. (application to the LDS gospel and LDS understanding of Jesus).

 

[2nd_Adam]

First of all I am don’t know what sort of Gospel you are proclaiming so I have no way of knowing whether you are preaching a different Gospel.

So first of all you really need to lay out exactly what gospel you believe. Then we can tell you whether we have a different gospel or not.

For us Catholics, the Gospel is Jesus Christ Himself. And when I say that I mean the whole Christ as proclaimed in the NT not just little bits and pieces of Him.

Thanks for asking. The gospel in a nutshell is 2 Corinthians 5:21.

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

http://www.nloma.org/Portals/0/sunset_cross.jpg

For additional understanding of what I believe to be the gospel, here’s a link for further reflection and study:

monergism.com/directory/link_category/Gospel/

The gospel of Christ in general is this: It is the good tidings that God has revealed concerning Christ. More largely it is this: As all mankind was lost in Adam and became the children of wrath, put under the sentence of death, God, though He left His fallen angels and has reserved them in the chains of eternal darkness, yet He has thought upon the children of men and has provided a way of atonement to reconcile them to Himself again…Namely, the second person of the Trinity takes man’s nature upon Himself, and becomes the Head of a second covenant, standing charged with sin. He answers for it by suffering what the law and divine justice required, and by making satisfaction by keeping the law perfectly, which satisfaction and righteousness He tenders up to the Father as a sweet savor of rest for the souls that are given to Him…And now this mediation of Christ is, by the appointment of the Father, preached to the children of men, of whatever nation or rank, freely offering this atonement unto sinners for atonement, requiring them to believe in Him and, upon believing, promising not only a discharge of all their former sins, but that they shall not enter into condemnation, that none of their sins or unworthiness shall ever hinder the peace of God with them, but that they shall through Him be received into the number of those who shall have the image of God again to be renewed unto them, and they they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
Jeremiah Burroughs

…and Heaven have mercy on us all - Presbyterians and Pagans alike - for we are all dreadfully cracked about the head and desperately in need of mending.
Herman Melville Moby Dick

We must not suppose that if we succeeded in making everyone nice we should have saved their souls. A world of nice people, content in their own niceness, looking no further, turned away from God, would be just as desperately in need of salvation as a miserable world.
C.S. Lewis

We must have the full message. . . ‘deliver the whole counsel of God’. . . . It starts with the Law. The Law of God … the demands of a righteous God, the wrath of God. That is the way to bring men and women to conviction; not by modifying the Truth… We must confront them with the fact that they are men and that they are fallible men, that they are dying men, that they are sinful men, and that they will all have to stand before God at the Bar of Eternal Judgement…And then we must present to them the full-orbed doctrine of the Grace of God in Salvation in Jesus Christ. We must show that no man is saved ‘by the deeds of the Law’, by his own goodness or righteousness, or church membership or anything else, but solely, utterly, entirely by the free gift of God in Jesus Christ His Son. . . . We must preach the full-orbed doctrine leaving nothing out-conviction of sin, the reality of Judgement and Hell, free grace, justification, sanctification, glorification. We must also show that there is a world view in the Bible … that here alone you can understand history-past history, present history, future history. Let us show this great world view, and God’s Eternal purpose… Let us at the same time be very careful that we are giving it to the whole man … the gospel is not only for a man’s heart, that you start with his head and present Truth to it … Let us show that it is a great message given by God which we in turn pass on to the mind, to the heart, to the will. There is ever this danger of leaving out some part or other of man’s personality… Let us be certain that we address the whole man-his mind, his emotions and his will.
D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones The Weapons of our Warfare pg. 21-22

 

[guanophore]

You seem "Stuck on Paul".  There are other aspects of the Gospel not found in Paul's writings.

Reformed Evangelicals have been taught that only in Paul can there be found a systematic and organized accounding of the “biblical doctrine” of justification. They are taught that Jesus did not have a lot to say about justification, since He was preaching to Jews, and that none of the other Apostles has the organized and systemic doctrine like Paul.

So, they focus on Paul, and extract all the verses that seemt to support the TULIP, abrogating the other verses as “not really relevant” on that point.

Duh.  It wasn't written until long after the Apostles were gone.  However, it proclaims the essentials in the faith that they did preach.

Duh.

Not in a way you'll accept; in this way, you're absolutely correct.  So why do you persist in this thread if you're convinced of such?

I think the answer to this has been made clear in the repeated posting of the verse from Paul “So I earnestly desire to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome”. He is an evangelical, and we are clearly in need of evangelizing. Everyone who does not interpret the NT like he does needs to be evangelized to his point of view.

This is like having a discussion with a five-year old.  You've obviously set you mind on what the Gospel message is, reject everything else, yet still issue a challenge.

Yes. Some are not yet ready for solid food, but need milk. But I don’t think discussion was really ever part of the plan.

Homey don’t play that. Good luck.

 

[guanophore]

Protestants do not see Paul in a vacuum.

You are right! Not all of them do. Reformed Evangelicals and fundamentalists, though, specialize in this.

Well you know, there is alot of competition on this Catholic Forum site.  You have to create something that is out of the ordinary if you want others to read it.

You seem to be one of those flash in the pan members. Since when is talking about matters of faith some kind of “competition”? I think this is your ego and your testosterone talking.

I have to admit, this Catholic Christian Forum site is much more fun than your typical Evangelical Protestant Forum site.

I think it might be very helpful to your spiritual development to reflect on why this might be.

 Revised Adam addition

Indeed, this seems to be the basis of your entire approach to theology.

Not really, especially when it comes to religion. In faith, we all can confirm people in error according to our own interpretation. It becomes a hamster wheel to no where.

Exactly! This is why Jesus appointed a teaching authority to guide His Church, and preserved them with the gift of infallibility. He wants us out there doing His works, not running in a hamster wheel!

In spiritual eternal reality, there are only two current states that people are in.

Perhaps you can provide some Scripture that supports this assertion? Hope you got some good sleep. Then we can discuss scripture that seems to indicate otherwise.

  You are either currently united to the 1st Adam, or by the grace of God alone, you are united to the 2nd Adam (Jesus Christ).  You cannot be temporaily united to Christ then remove from the kingdom of His Son back to the kingdom of the devil.

Such a statement requires that one ignore and awful lot of scripture. The primary being that a person who comes to faith, then leaves “his last state is worse than the first”. So, if people who have never come into grace are better off than those who came, and then fell way, how is it there are only two states?

God’s grace is greater than that, because those who are adopted into the family of God, are secure in His Son.

Indeed, God’s grace is all sufficient, and greater than all of our sins. His grace is so great, He has created us with free will, and He has ordained that we should choose. He allows us to choose to abandon Him.

Maybe us confessional Protestants can spiritually see the work of Christ for wretched sinners much clearer than Catholic Christians? :shrug:

I am sure you believe that you can.

I am also sure that there are many of my separated brethren that better understand the work of God’s grace than many uninfomred Catholics.

And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

It is amazing that people can read this, and still say there is no visible church, or that the fulness of Him is not found in that Body.

You seem to enjoy defending the Catholic Faith, but you sure don’t seem to have a passion of proclaiming the gospel of God’s amazing grace found in His Son. The two are not necessarily the same things.

It seems that you are pursuaded they are not.

It is true that I am not passionate about playing your hamster wheel game.

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. - Paul

Perhaps you believe this verse describes yourself? If that is true, then you have no idea that you have carried a great deal of theological baggage into CAF.

Ephesians 4 . There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

This is why there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

 

[thirdn6]

Now I know…

His signature quoting a Catholic pope says everything about him. He quotes some phrases and then distort their true meaning in order to deceive people.

The devil can do that. He’s the original. The devil can quote scriptures but he will not proclaim the truth because he is the father of lies. What the devil can do with the truth is to twist or distort it so it would look like the truth. And then he can manipulate…

Look around you guys and be ever watchful for there are many ravening wolves, false teachers, that come in sheeps clothing always trying to pull you away from your Catholic faith.

Peace to all. But truth is more important…

 

[guanophore]

I’ve heard American Catholicism has too much Protestantism in it. Maybe that’s a good thing… it seems to be rubbing off on Pope Benedict (see link below).

Well, Pope Benedict is not an “American Catholic”, so I hardly see how he would have become contaminated with these heresies. In any case, I can assure you that he has not fallen into any of them. As you do with the scriptures, you are misundersatanding what he has written.

 Historical Christianity was never apostate; therefore, the restoration movement of the LDS Church is not true.

If you believe this, then how do you justify the behavior of the reformers, who departed from the faith that is evident in historical Christianity?

I sincerely believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints preaches a different gospel and a different Jesus than the one true gospel and the one true Jesus Christ.

I guess this means, according to your own standards, that they are accursed?

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (this verse is not owned by Catholic Christians).

You are such a hoot!

When it serves your purpose, you will use the Catholic interpretation,and when it does not, you abandon it!

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. (application to the LDS gospel and LDS understanding of Jesus).

Where in scripture does it say this applies to the LDS, but not to you?

 

[guanophore]

Now I know…

His signature quoting a Catholic pope says everything about him. He quotes some phrases and then distort their true meaning in order to deceive people.

The devil can do that. He’s the original. The devil can quote scriptures but he will not proclaim the truth because he is the father of lies. What the devil can do with the truth is to twist or distort it so it would look like the truth. And then he can manipulate…

Look around you guys and be ever watchful for there are many ravening wolves, false teachers, that come in sheeps clothing always trying to pull you away from your Catholic faith.

Peace to all. But truth is more important…

I dont’ think his motives are evil. He really believes that what he has been taught is true, and that Catholics do not “get it”. He sincerely wants us to benefit from the gospel of grace, and when he read the papal documents, he construed them to mean what he wanted them to mean, just like he does the scriptures.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Reformed Evangelicals have been taught that only in Paul can there be found a systematic and organized accounding of the “biblical doctrine” of justification. They are taught that Jesus did not have a lot to say about justification, since He was preaching to Jews, and that none of the other Apostles has the organized and systemic doctrine like Paul.

So, they focus on Paul, and extract all the verses that seemt to support the TULIP, abrogating the other verses as “not really relevant” on that point.

Duh.

I think the answer to this has been made clear in the repeated posting of the verse from Paul “So I earnestly desire to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome”. He is an evangelical, and we are clearly in need of evangelizing. Everyone who does not interpret the NT like he does needs to be evangelized to his point of view.

Yes. Some are not yet ready for solid food, but need milk. But I don’t think discussion was really ever part of the plan.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just like all Christians who know in part. I would have to respectfully disagree with your posting. The most Calvinistic book in the Bible is the gospel of John. From my perspective, Jesus Christ taught the truths of Calvinism. My comment about Paul preachng the gospel to you who are in Rome is just a joke my friend. I have respectfully called all Catholics as Catholic Christians… and I have intentionally left out the phrase “Roman” Catholic. . The gospel is meant to be preached to the world and the church alike. Think about it, Paul is preaching the gospel to the church in His letters. I have always posted my belief that Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc makeup the true body of Christ… of course only those from the named communites that are born from above would qualify in my view. I have also clearly posted that this is an iron sharpening iron relationship between brothers and sisters in Christ. I’m your half brother, don’t you remember?

 

[2nd_Adam]

I dont’ think his motives are evil. He really believes that what he has been taught is true, and that Catholics do not “get it”. He sincerely wants us to benefit from the gospel of grace, and when he read the papal documents, he construed them to mean what he wanted them to mean, just like he does the scriptures.

Thank you for not labeling me a child of the devil. An iron sharpening iron realtionship only works with those who may see things differently within the body of Chrsit. Without Protestants on this Catholic Forum site, the non-Catholic religion section would be dull and boring. Take the thread challenge by defending the Catholic Faith. . I’m sorry your spiritual offensive weapon is only kung fu. Try a samarui sword sometime.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Now I know…

His signature quoting a Catholic pope says everything about him. He quotes some phrases and then distort their true meaning in order to deceive people.

The devil can do that. He’s the original. The devil can quote scriptures but he will not proclaim the truth because he is the father of lies. What the devil can do with the truth is to twist or distort it so it would look like the truth. And then he can manipulate…

Look around you guys and be ever watchful for there are many ravening wolves, false teachers, that come in sheeps clothing always trying to pull you away from your Catholic faith.

Peace to all. But truth is more important…

Do you consider historic confessional Protestants to be your seperated brother and sisters? Or do you see us as evil wolves and wild boars who belong to the devil? Maybe the verse below fits Joseph Smith better than Martin Luther? What makes my gospel to be a false one?

Matthew 7:15

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

 

[brb2]

Maybe the verse below fits Joseph Smith better than Martin Luther? What makes my gospel to be a false one?

Matthew 7:15

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

No. St Francis de Sales appropriately used Matt. verse against M. Luther and his ilk.

 

[guanophore]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just like all Christians who know in part.

Thank you! this is very generous of you, considering how ignorant you believe Catholics really are.

From my perspective, Jesus Christ taught the truths of Calvinism.

Yes, of course it would seem that way from your perspective. Otherwise, you would not embrace it.

I will agree that some of the truths of Jesus can be found in Calvanism.

  My comment about Paul preachng the gospel to you who are in Rome is just a joke my friend.

I don’t find it funny at all. Especially in the context of your repeated aspersions that Catholics do not know the gospel. No, I don’t think you are joking. Maybe you have no realized that your agenda is a violation of the forum rules, so you are back pedaling.
2nd Adam;5805149:

I have respectfully called all Catholics as Catholic Christians… and I have intentionally left out the phrase “Roman” Catholic.

.

Thank you!

 I'm your half brother, don't you remember?

No, 2nd, you are not half of anything.

. Without Protestants on this Catholic Forum site, the non-Catholic religion section would be dull and boring.

Not entirely. There are plenty of lapsed Catholics here.

However, it is for people like you that CAF exists.

Take the thread challenge by defending the Catholic Faith.

You are mistaken, 2nd Adam. You are not interested in learning about Catholicism, but you want us to play your game of “repeat the gospel just as I understand it, or you are wrong”.

Anyway, the appropriate context for such a thread is over in apologetics. That is where we make a defense of the faith. This section of CAF is for comparing and contrasting differences. Perhaps you will consider reading the forum rules.

I'm sorry your spiritual offensive weapon is only kung fu.  Try a samarui sword sometime.

Such a statement reflects a number of errors. With all due respect, you do not know anything about my spiritual weapons.

You are simultaneously asking for me to defend my faith, and criticizing me about what you perceive are my “offensive weapons”. So what do you want? offense, or defense? I think you are just wanting to pick a fight, and be contentious under the guise of iron sharpening iron.

By the way, I do not practice kung fu, another inaccurate assumption you have made, and you have no idea what I know about the Sword (which you have mispelled above).

Do you consider historic confessional Protestants to be your seperated brother and sisters?

This is the Catholic Teaching. There are some Catholics who don’t understand it.

Or do you see us as evil wolves and wild boars who belong to the devil? Maybe the verse below fits Joseph Smith better than Martin Luther?

Both things can be true. Christians do fall into error. Look at Peter! Right after Jesus changed his name to “Rock” and told him he was the rock upon which the Church would be built, he said "get thee behind me Satan!’ Musta hurt ol’ Pete’ s feelings really bad.

What makes my gospel to be a false one?

I am not sure “false” is the best word. It is incomplete, and your theology departs from what the Apostles taught. However, it seems clear that you are preaching what you believe to be true, and you are fervent about it. I do not believe that you have evil intentions, or that you are trying to sow weeds among the wheat. You stand in the tradition of Apollos.

 

[2nd_Adam]

No. St Francis de Sales appropriately used Matt. verse against M. Luther and his ilk.

I think the all knowing Magestrium called us confessional Protestants your seperated bretheren. The Joseph Smith clan does not get that same special treatment.

 

[brb2]

I think the all knowing Magestrium called us confessional Protestants your seperated bretheren. The Joseph Smith clan does not get that same special treatment.

Separate, but not equal. Only UNITY counts with Christ.

Both Protestants and LDS … are separate from the Church of the Apostles.

 

[guanophore]

I think the all knowing Magestrium called us confessional Protestants your seperated bretheren. The Joseph Smith clan does not get that same special treatment.

The Magesterium is not “all knowing”. This is another veiled and condescending insult. You must realize these sarcastic remarks are not lost on us.

Yes, the Magesterium has made an infallible proclamation that you are our separated brethren (not “half” brethren). This applies to all who have been validly baptized. Mormons are not validly baptized.