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Dancelittleewok
Guest
In 2ndAdam’s recommended site Monergism.com, I think I found the answer to my question in this article.
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ralphinal
Guest
I LOVE it when they post CCC quotes and leave out the footnotes. I bet they would DIE if they knew how many times the Bible is cited in the CCC.
More anti-Catholic drivel
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zerinus
Guest
True.
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
Go to that site and type in “Catholicism” in the search drive. You will find more of the same…The theme seems to be Catholics aren’t aware of the Biblical teaching and the Mother Church’s practice/doctrines are in fact opposed to it.
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ralphinal
Guest
We looked at that site a while back. In fact, a poster on here contacted the guy’s former Dominican house!! He mentions a head injury on the website. After that injury, he totally changed. Typical.
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zerinus
Guest
Your agenda is an impossible one. You think you can win over Catholics to Calvinism by cozying up to them. You take people for a fool basically. You try to sugarcoat Calvinism for Catholics by misrepresenting it or telling lies about it. You will discover the folly of that one of these days.
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zerinus
Guest
Evangelicals and Calvinists believe that the Catholic Church is apostate.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Do you just ignore the ECT 1 and ECT II documents that I post?
Here is an article written in 2009 on Christianity Today (the leading Evangelical magazine)
christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/januaryweb-only/103-51.0.html
I think you are angry since your agenda is easy to see now.
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zerinus
Guest
Try this video to get a different perspective:
carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/are-roman-catholics-christian
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benedictus2
Guest
Protestants will go through purgatory. The only difference is we know we are going through there so are quite preprared. The protestants will be in total shock and will exclaim “If only I’d know”.Protestants don’t have to go to purgatory like our Catholic siblings because we have a pass and go Monopoly card in Jesus. Only Catholics have to go through purgatory because they believe in it, and Protestants do not. Since Paul teaches us that absent from the body is present in the Lord, Protestants go straight to the presence of the Lord after our physical death. That’s one of the benefits of sola scriptura Christians… we skip Purgatory.
2nd, why do you persist on lying with every single post you make?
It is very easy to rectify the lie in your signature and yet you have not done that. Is it a case of enjoying being the child of the father of lies?
It really is like you saying “Jesus is not the Son of God if He was unable to rise from the dead” and I made a headline splashed out in big bold letters :
"JESUS IS NOT THE SON OF GOD…" 2nd Adam.
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guanophore
Guest
I do not understand this statement. There are some people who die in a pure and sanctified state.
But purgaotory is not a 'back up plan". It is a state during which we are cleansed of all our attachment to sin, because nothing unclean can enter heaven.
I don’t understand this question either. It is impossible for any human to be “made clean based on their works”. The only way humans can be made clean is by the blood of Christ, made available to us by His grace.
As is made clear in the parable of the workers, those who come at the last recieve the same as those who come in the beginning. God is just as generous with all.
**
would that be another one who falls into the “backup plan” of purgatory?**
I do not understand this notion of “back up”. The cleansing of the soul for heaven is God’s plan from the beginning of time. He created us for Himself, and He wants us to be with Him in eternity.
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guanophore
Guest
Both things are true. The Apostles taught that the righteousness of Jesus is both imputed to us, and infused within us.
The reason we can live our life in Christ and be gradually changed from one glory into another is because of this imputed and infused righteousness. Without Him, we can do nothing.
We are made clean by grace. For some of us, the process of being sanctified (holy, blameless, pure) is not completed at the time of death. In those cases, the author adn finisher of our faith completes the good work He has begun in us.
One cannot be Catholic unless one makes this decision. There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved.
You are creating a false dichotomy. In the sacrament, one confesses to God, and the priest acts in the person of Christ, remitting the sins as Jesus authorized them to do.
In any case, God is not bound by the sacrament.
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guanophore
Guest
Purgatory is one aspect of this.
Yes. Works also “complete” our faith. This is why Catholics do not separate the works that are created by grace from the saving faith that produces them.
This is a good question. Catholic doctrines, unlike those of our separated brethren, are not distilled from the Scriptures. Catholic doctrines come from Jesus, through the Apostles. They existed prior to the NT being written. They are reflected in the NT, but the NT was never designed to contain all of the Teaching of the Apostles.
and well you should hesitate! There are all kinds of extra-biblical doctrines that lead many astray, Sola Scriptura probably the biggest.
Fortunately, it is not our beliefs and doctrines that unify us, but the HS.
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guanophore
Guest
On the contrary,2nd, the “pass and go” provided to us by the blood of Christ is the very think that enables us to be purified for heaven.Protestants don’t have to go to purgatory like our Catholic siblings because we have a pass and go Monopoly card in Jesus
I honestly don’t understand the purpose for making such silly comments. No Truth exists because any person “believes in it”. Truth is revealed to humanity by God, and does not emanate from the imaginations of men. Persons do not experience cleansing for eternity because they “imagine” that they do!
Well, 2nd, apparently you are under some misapprehension that people who are being purified for heaven are “absent from the Lord”. this is ridiculousl. Why would those who die in Christ be any “less” present with Him than they are here on earth?
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guanophore
Guest
Actually, it is not a bit strange. It is the human condition. We all interprete what enters through the senses in the light of our percpetions, which are formed by our experiences and education (or lack of it).That’s strange how we can read the same chapter and come up with a different conclusion.
This is the reason that we need infallible interpretation. Without it, “each man does what is right in his own eyes”, and we see the division in Christendom that results.
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zerinus
Guest
There are biblical references to something equivalent to a Purgatory. Mormons do not believe in a Purgatory as such; but their theology provides for something equivalent. In Mormonism Purgatory is just hell, except that it doesn’t last forever. You stay there until you are punished enough for your sins; and then are taken out and saved in one of the three kingdoms of glory (usually the lowest one). Here are some biblical references that suggest some such arrangement in the afterlife:
Luke 12:
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
That suggest that hell is not a place where everyone receives the same punishment. And after your “stripe” are ended, then you come out. You don’t stay there forever. The metaphor is coined on earthly punishment. Here is another reference:
Matthew 5:
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
This is also a metaphor for punishment in the afterlife, coined on earthly punishment. You don’t stay there forever. After you have paid the “uttermost farthing,” you come out. That is how it is on earth; and that is how it will be in the next life.
Another interesting factor to note, with regard to the first quote especially, is that the servant who was punished with “many stripes” was not an outsider from the ranks of discipleship. He was a true servants of his Lord, but one who did not do his duty as he should. He had been negligent. He was not an infidel or unbeliever. That has other serious implications for Protestant theology, who believe in “once saved, always saved!”
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Shaken
Guest
What version of the gospel are you reading? Is it a Catholic or a Protestant version? You can go through each at your leisure and tick off the language differences.
Other than that, if you think there are no differences, then why not go to a Catholic church instead of a Protestant one?
In the gospels, Jesus said, if they aren’t against us then leave them be. He maybe meant, it is good advertising for Me.
Other than that, if you think there are no differences, then why not go to a Catholic church instead of a Protestant one?
In the gospels, Jesus said, if they aren’t against us then leave them be. He maybe meant, it is good advertising for Me.
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ralphinal
Guest
Oh, Irony of Ironies, they thought that by breaking from the Apostates, they would not be apostate any more.
There is no proof that leaving one wrong road puts you on the right one.
At least the Mormons restarted, not that they were right, either
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Now that appears to be slander and breaking Forum Rules. Please post where you think I said that. I will give you an opportunity to clear yourself for apparent slander before reporting this post to a moderator. I think I was just quoting Scripture, so if you knew the Scriptures, you would not make such a slanderous intentional statement. I think we need to start another thread about abusing Scripture by personal interpretations. In addition, unintentional and intentional slander is sin against God and your siblings in Christ
http://menscrhp.com/images/cross_sunset.jpg
For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder.
2 Corinthians 12:20
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Love_is_Patient
Guest
The way you quote Pope Benedict XVI in your signature is taking him dramatically out of context.
The previous poster was just trying to illustrate that to you by demonstration.
You found that offensive.
We similarly find your butchered quotation of the pope offensive.
Love is Patient- Status