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Pfaffenhoffen
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No, I loved that of Dominique !!!
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Pfaffenhoffen
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God Bless You too.I saw that quote on #78 the first time. I agree with you that these are real issues today, as is demonic possession. These are the true and present dangers of the devil. Allowing that putrid stench in our souls corrupts man to become less of what the Catholic church asks of us through Biblical proofs, hence so many religious denominations, and also disbelief in the obvious. Go visit a mental institution, and bring a rosary. Say the rosary as you walk through the halls and see what happens. You may be surprised what you see or hear.
I asked you the* question *if that was what you thought. I’m sorry you feel that way, but I did not say, “You are calling Jesus a liar.” Are you saying that the Bible is not absolute truth? Are you denying that the apostle said that Jesus Himself said to the demons, “Go.” ? The apostle in question is telling us in the scripture a story of Jesus and how Jesus himself said,“Go.” to the demons of the story. Your answers to these questions should be “No. I do not.” I am asking you what you think here.
If you read scripture, it clearly states, again, that Jesus told the demons to “Go”. The Catholic Church is built up on the Bible. It is based on what scripture says.
I’m speaking of all kinds of** infirmities** (and no my English is not faltering), including these that you’ve mentioned. Demonic possession is another story. Let me quote you scriptural evidence where Jesus himself shows a difference in infirmities and spiritual demonic possession. Are you getting your information from non-catholic teachings? If so, please don’t come onto websites such as these where people are trying to find catholic answers about topics such as these.
(Douay-Rheims Bible)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give. Matthew 10:8 If you actually read chapter Matthew, Chapter 10 from the beginning, Matthew is telling us what Jesus Christ Himself said.
Do you even read the Bible? I am quoting Bible because this is where the Catholic Church gets its teachings. Do you go to Mass on Sundays? They read 3 readings from scripture. So we read the Bible in the Catholic Church. We also believe that it comes from God, inspired by the Holy Spirit in its writings. Are you saying that you do not believe scripture to be true?
I think of and pray for stuff like that daily. To deny exorcisms or demonic possession is to deny the Truths of the Bible, where Catholic teaching comes from.
I understand this is what you think is important and we ALL need to focus on things like this rather than demonic possession. I completely agree with you when it comes to that. The person asking the question wanted to know about demonic possession. To tell him/her that you don’t believe is your choice, but an odd answer from your part when person asking the question is trying to find out the truths and facts about it. Why even mention this? It’s not about what you think. It’s about what the Bible, the Catholic Church, and scripture has to say about it, not someone’s opinion. This is not my opinion. This is what the Bible says, what Catholics choose to believe.
God bless you Pfaff. I mean that whole-heatedly. I will continue to pray for you.
I am exhausted running after pigs. Sorry. those were special kind of pigs for in the last 2000 years no more pigs behaved that way.
Sorry, it is not matter of faith that demons are in pigs. Or should I believe that too?
I have no time to spend on possessions. I am busy to fight the REAL devil like the one present in Jesus temptations (no pigs there!).
Pray for you too.
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Pfaffenhoffen
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I do not deny Devils.
But If I did not believe in Devils I could be a good Christian.
Devils are not necessary.
They are devils because they wanted so. They were angels.
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Inego_de_Loyola
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Why wouldn’t he do both? Apostolic Tradition says he does, and reason says that both are in accord with his nature.
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stanczyk
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This is wrong on a number of points.
First nobody in this thread is denying demons generally, merely the idea of demonic possession.
Second, it is fallacious reasoning to conclude that denial of demons denies the work of Christ, as it is entirely possible that the “demons” cast out by Christ were an ancient interpretation of what is now considered mental illness. Thus, it does not follow that denial of demons, even as a general proposition, necessitates the denial of the miracle of Christ.
Let’s all try to apply logic, shall we?
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Dominique1234
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I will agree that your theory is possible. Although not probable. Let me rewrite what I wrote to Pfaff.
Go into a mental institute and walk the halls whilst saying your rosary. See what happens.
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give. (Matthew 10:8)
Differentiate for me “Heal the sick… drive out demons.” Wouldn’t mental illness fall under the category of “Heal the sick” rather than “drive out demons”? Wouldn’t this be the logical choice?
Lastly,are you applying Catholic Theological logic or another christian denominational logic? Read what the CCC has to say about demonic possession & exorcism. These types of forums have questions asked by those who want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, not some random opinion of someone.
Where do you get your facts and information? I have yet to see one ounce of evidence or even a Catholic article that proves your theories. Please do so that you may add some credibility to your statements. It would help me tremendously to have a little bit more faith in what you say.
God bless.
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Dominique1234
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Agreed, as does the Church.
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Inego_de_Loyola
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Dominique Could you please make the point for me of the three degrees of Dogma? I think Stanczyk is ignoring my posts.
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Dominique1234
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I think they either got the point or decided to keep their opinions to themselves. I think they now understand that we are only backing what the Catholic Church teaches. Whether it be demonic possession, exorcisms or demons in general.Dominique Could you please make the point for me of the three degrees of Dogma? I think Stanczyk is ignoring my posts.
They brought good points to the table, don’t get me wrong***. I am happy to have these people who choose to bring their opinions up and not back up their information with factual Catholic teaching. It helps me in my faith and I’m sure it helps them as well.
A good debate always ends with people understanding each other and where the Catholic Church lies.
God bless!
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Pfaffenhoffen
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Both?
Look: the Devil wants you in Hell, the devil does not want you to make strange faces and to spit and do crazy things on earth.
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Dominique1234
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Quote by Loyola “Why wouldn’t he do both? Apostolic Tradition says he does, and reason says that both are in accord with his nature.”
Pfaffenhoffen, I know what you’re saying. I understand that the devil is immediately in all men trying to veer us away from God through greed, lust, envy, gluttony, etc… the Capital sins, etc… the devil wants our souls in hell.
God allows demonic possession so that there isn’t any doubt that the devil is absolutely real, hence the spitting, convulsions, strange faces, floating chairs, moving objects without anyone touching them getting flung across a room, etc… If there wasn’t such a thing, there wouldn’t be exorcisms preformed on people who are possessed by demons.
A person who refuses to acknowledge sin is already damned, unless they go to confession and truly repent for their sins. The society we live in today wants us to NOT believe in exorcisms, making it as if it’s just Hollywood effects, and deny the existence of evil, as there is in demonic possession. No evil= no God. Can’t have Good without evil, therefore if there isn’t a God, there isn’t a devil. It all starts by people not believing in something the Catholic Church obviously teaches. Exorcisms mean that there are demonic possessions. This is what the Catholic Church teaches.
Just like God is within all of us, demons want the same thing. Some are more possessive demons that take over their ‘host’… hence demonic possession.
Does this clarify what you don’t understand? If not please feel free to question what you don’t understand and I will try to give you more evidence that there is such a thing. To me it seems that your continuous denial means that you’re still searching. And if you say it’s not denial, then show me where to find facts that there is no such thing as demonic possession. Prove to me there is no such thing. Find facts that shows the Bible, as well as what the Catholic Church says, is wrong.
Thanks
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Dominique1234
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The person you need to speak to is a local Catholic priest, one who is from the Latin rite, as you claim to be as well. He will guide your doubts about this, and tell him that you do not believe in it, tell him what you’ve been discussing here on this website. Show him our posts if you wish. Ask him for guidance. He will help you.
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Pfaffenhoffen
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Look: I have done philosophy and theology studies enough to become a priest but I was told by the Bishop that my vocation was marriage. So, I am married and with 2 kids.
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Inego_de_Loyola
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…and that means that you have authority to deny dogma? I’m really not seeing the logic here.
Do you understand the psychology of the Devil? I made a post earlier to help demonstrate why he wants to possess people, and I see no reason we can’t debate on the level of whys and hows, but at the end of the day the church teaches possession exists, and nothing anyone says on an internet forum is going to change that teaching or the reality it represents.
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Pfaffenhoffen
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Demoniac possession a dogma?
Can you prove any proclamation of the Pope “Ex Cathedra”?
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Dominique1234
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The person you need to speak to is a local Catholic priest, one who is from the Latin rite, as you claim to be as well. He will guide your doubts about this, and tell him that you do not believe in it, tell him what you’ve been discussing here on this website. Show him our posts if you wish. Ask him for guidance. He will help you.
Having all this knowledge in philosophy and theology, yet you have not once quoted from any Catholic source stating what you say is true…
I have given you Biblical quotes, Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes, and some dogmatic content about exorcisms. Why have exorcisms if there is no such thing as demonic possession? Are you denying what the Church teaches on exorcisms? What is the use for exorcisms if there is no such thing as demonic possession?
Please, for your own credibility, state where you get your information.
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Dominique1234
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Very good point.
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Dominique1234
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Me too. And also tired of explaining the story to you in a way you can understand. There are no demons in pigs today, if that’s what you’re saying. Jesus allowed the demons to possess those pigs at that time because He is God. He can do what ever He wants.
I am glad that you are human and that you are fighting temptations. I do that on a daily basis, and we both know this is a reality. But where we are segregated is in the fact that I believe what the Catholic Church teaches about demonic possession, because the Bible says so (and there is a difference between mental illness and demonic possession because the Bible differentiates them in the same sentence, negating any possibility of them being one and the same). You unfortunately do not believe.
We must then also disagree in exorcisms as well. I believe that demonic possession exists simply based on the fact that there are such things as exorcisms. Exorcisms means there is demonic possession, or the Church would not allow exorcisms to be done if there wasn’t such a thing. This can only conclude that there is such a thing as demonic possession. When I say the Church, I don’t mean the people in it.* I mean that it is written that this exists, for a purpose, doing God’s Holy Will.*
Please don’t disbelieve just despite me. That would be sinful. All I have said comes from a Catholic source. I have yet to see Catholic sources that disprove demonic possession from your part. Remember, this is not my opinion.*** It is what the Catholic Church teaches, what the Bible states, and actual facts about Jesus Christ’s life. It’s even historical.***
In other words, don’t shoot the messenger.
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perro_sarnoso
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Any exorcism must be notified to and authorized by the local Bishop. Every priest is potentially an exorcist but special training is important.
The possession is broken at death and the demon is relegated back to the infernal chasms. Remember the pigs that ran off over the cliff and died. The demons simply fled.
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Pfaffenhoffen
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boom,boom,boom, I am shooting the messenger… kidding…
You say that it is what the Scripture say. That sounds Protestant…
You say that it is what the Church teaches. Can you quote an “ex-cathedra” dogma saying that there are demon possessions?
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