Dems, Media Outraged After Trump Calls MS-13 Gang Members 'Animals' | Breitbart

  • Thread starter Thread starter MonteRCMS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
MonteRCMS said:
Please … right here and now … condemn MS-13 in your strongest possible language.

Also, in your own words, explain your understanding of what MS-13 is.
Click to expand...
Would you offer condolences and sympathy to the victims of MS-13?

Still waiting.
 
I already responded to you, in the other thread. If you want more, you’ll wait forever.
 
To call anyone an animal is SEVERELY un-Christian. It cannot be defended by actual Christians.
 
dvdjs said:
In post #70, I noted that Christ is authorized to judge; we are not.
His calling out is authorized and just; ours is not authorized.
Instead, what Christ demands from us is perfect love.
Click to expand...
There is a logical and moral inconsistency in your points above.

Let’s break it down:
  1. Christ loves perfectly.
  2. He does not refrain from calling out those who need calling out for what they do.
  3. Christ demands from us “perfect love.”
  4. Christ’s perfect love authorizes him to judge (although he said he did not come to judge: For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. John 12:47)
  5. Although Christ came to save the world and not to judge it, he still called those who needed calling out by terms that accurately described what they were all about.
  6. Perhaps perfect love needs to be truthful and accurate rather than being falsely or disingenuously polite or “respectful.”
  7. Perhaps an inordinate need to garner respect from others is a motive for being falsely respectful to them?
  8. Does perfect love entail being respectful to others who do not deserve respect? That didn’t seem to be the case for Christ who was the epitome of perfect love and yet wasn’t “respectful,” in the sense you seem to imply, to the scribes and Pharisees.
  9. Perhaps perfect love sometimes means being truthful with those who do disrespectful and inhuman things to others?
  10. When you continue to insist that Trump possibly meant all illegal aliens when he used the word “animals,” despite the fact that he, himself, clarified what he meant, aren’t you being disrespectful and unfair to him as an autonomous human person since you are judging him without actually knowing what he meant? Isn’t he in a better position to know what he actually meant by his own words than you are?
  11. Doesn’t your judgement of Trump, regarding what he meant by his words, contradict your post #70, wherein you noted “that Christ is authorized to judge; we are not?”
 
Last edited:
dvdjs said:
Moreover, it is not actually clear that Trump was limiting his comments to MS-13, criminal gangs, criminal illegals, illegals in general , or immigrants. His remarks were awkward blurry for someone who is speaking as POTUS.
Click to expand...
It seems that because the possibility exists that his comment might conceivably be interpreted as referring to all illegals as animals that this is justification for assuming that is what he meant. Given, however, that we have a moral obligation to interpret someone’s remarks in the best (reasonably) possible light - and not the worst - there is no justification for assuming that was what he meant.
 
Ender said:
Given, however, that we have a moral obligation to interpret someone’s remarks in the best (reasonably) possible light - and not the worst - there is no justification for assuming that was what he meant.
Click to expand...
Then I hope nobody comes to these forums looking for models of how to interpret others comments in the best possible light, because that clearly does not happen from the Trump supporters on these forums.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Then I hope nobody comes to these forums looking for models of how to interpret others comments in the best possible light, because that clearly does not happen from the Trump supporters on these forums.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but one cannot justify his own misbehavior by pointing to the misbehavior of others.
 
This is such a non story. Trump calls ms13 “animals” and some people in their efforts to show Trump is wrong about everything take him out of context to argue for the humanity of ms13. Trump is wrong about a lot of stuff, and he says a lot of repugnant stuff… but seriously…move along to more important topics.
 
Ender said:
Perhaps, but one cannot justify his own misbehavior by pointing to the misbehavior of others.
Click to expand...
I agree, but how do you stop Trump supporters from doing that? Many of them seem to lack introspection, which is sad for a catholic forum.
 
Last edited:
HarryStotle said:
Perhaps perfect love sometimes means being truthful with those who do disrespectful and inhuman things to otherd
Click to expand...
Truthful, sure. Degrading, I don’t think so.
HarryStotle said:
When you continue to insist that Trump possibly meant all illegal aliens
Click to expand...
I did not do that.
In response to commenters who thought that remarks of Trump’s critics were infaur, since the context made it clear that he spoke of Ms-13, I pointed out that there was no such clarity. I was happy that Trump did clarify, albeit a day late.
HarryStotle said:
Doesn’t your judgement of Trump, regarding what he meant by his words,
Click to expand...
Not at all. I made an attempt to discern the meaning of his words, and the probity of his acts. While I find his words and acts to less than desirable for the POTUS I don’t see this as a big deal, and have said that.
 
Last edited:
Ender said:
Given, however, that we have a moral obligation to interpret someone’s remarks in the best (reasonably) possible light - and not the worst - there is no justification for assuming that was what he meant.
Click to expand...
He has as POTUS a responsibility to communicate clearly. He did not. His words were taken at face value, and in light of his history of remarks, and we’re criticized. The fact that one might have found some other meaning that was more benign is very nice. But not something that I expect in politics.

Frankly, it is something that doesn’t even happen here.
 
dvdjs said:
He has as POTUS a responsibility to communicate clearly. He did not. His words were taken at face value…
Click to expand...
If his words were unclear then they can hardly be said to have an obvious meaning, but rational opposition is apparently irrelevant.
The fact that one might have found some other meaning that was more benign is very nice. But not something that I expect in politics.
Click to expand...
It seems inconsistent to chastise others for failing their Christian duties and then justify your own comments as what is to be expected in politics.
Frankly, it is something that doesn’t even happen here.
Click to expand...
True, as your own responses demonstrate.
 
Ender said:
his words were unclear then they can hardly be said to have an obvious meaning, but rational opposition is apparently irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Please. His words at face value, had an obvious meaning. That meaning was reported and criticized. It could be true, as Trump later said, that he meant to refer to ms-13. That is not clear from the transcript, but plausible.
Ender said:
seems inconsistent to chastise others for failing their Christian duties and then justify your own comments as what is to be expected in politic
Click to expand...
  1. I don’t think it fair use a loaded term like chastise.
  2. I don’t know what my expectations about politics have to do with right and wrong.
  3. I don’t know where the idea is coming from about justification.
    Maybe you can make this a little more coherent.
Ender said:
True, as your own responses demonstrate.
Click to expand...
As I said, apart from some symptomatic expression of unhappiness with my posr, I don’t know what you are getting at. Especially with this last jab. You seem to think I have done something awfully wrong, but are not saying what it is or in what post. Makes it hard to give a dubstsntive response.
 
Last edited:
dvdjs said:
He has as POTUS a responsibility to communicate clearly. He did not. His words were taken at face value, and in light of his history of remarks, and we’re criticized. The fact that one might have found some other meaning that was more benign is very nice. But not something that I expect in politics.

Frankly, it is something that doesn’t even happen here.
Click to expand...
Only a very few people misunderstood Trump’s meaning … and those that did misunderstand, did so by deliberately editing his words.
 
dvdjs said:
His words at face value, had an obvious meaning. That meaning was reported and criticized. It could be true, as Trump later said, that he meant to refer to ms-13. That is not clear from the transcript, but plausible.
Click to expand...
In the same objection you refer to his comments as both “obvious” and “not clear…but plausible.” You can take one or the other position but both can hardly be accurate. In this post his comments are “obvious”, which is a far cry from what you found them to be earlier (post #128):

He is so blurry that you it would help to be a mind reader. it is mandatory to guess to makes sense of what he said.
As I said, apart from some symptomatic expression of unhappiness with my post, I don’t know what you are getting at. Especially with this last jab. You seem to think I have done something awfully wrong, but are not saying what it is or in what post. Makes it hard to give a substantive response.
Click to expand...
If you’re going to remind others of their Christian duties where they appear to fail to live up to them you should not dismiss your own similar obligation. In post 70 you wrote:

"According to scripture and our creed, Jesus is authorized to judge.
That is not given to us, instead what is demanded of us is love."

However when I pointed out another Christian responsibility, that of judging others words charitably, you placed the fault on POTUS for failing to communicate clearly…even while claiming that the meaning of this unclear communication was obvious. A little more consistency would be helpful.
 
Interesting.Especially due to your constant statements about mind reading others’ intentions.
 
MonteRCMS said:
Only a very few people misunderstood Trump’s meaning … and those that did misunderstand, did so by deliberately editing his words.
Click to expand...
Actually there was quite a hubbub.
And what words did the edit? I think Trump’s actual words did, especially in light of prior trmsrkd, did lend themselves to an interpretation broader than just ms-13.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top