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estesbob
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Correct. The only people who doubt the sincerity of Republicans om abortion are people who claim to be pro-life trying to rationalize their support of pro-abortion canidates
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Jeanne_S
Guest
You should not assume things about people. That’s a bad habit.
I don’t hate Republicans.
There are some OK Republican governors out there. I would never vote for any of them, but I certainly don’t hate them. Their collective saving grace is that they govern - which is more than can be said about the House Republicans.
Do you hate Democrats? Sounds like it, but I don’t want to assume anything.
Pot…meet kettle
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_Abyssinia
Guest
I do not know hold old some Catholic democrats are, but I wonder if current Catholic democrats are attached to the party because of what it used to be and what they remember it as and are not taking full consideration of what the party has become. The democrat party today is not the party it used to be and I think some Catholic democrats are having a difficult time acknowledging that.
Dave Carlin who was a democrat legislator wrote a book called ‘Can a Catholic be a Democrat?’ and here is the summary which describes the change in the democrat party
shop.sophiainstitute.com/Can-a-Catholic-Be-a-Democrat-P91.aspx
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Al_Moritz
Guest
Wrong assumption (shrug).
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_Abyssinia
Guest
If people can try and rationalise that republicans who say they are pro-life aren’t really pro life, maybe they can rationalise that it is acceptable to vote for a pro-abortion democrat, because if you can rationalise that republicans aren’t really pro life, then you could rationalise that voting for a republican wouldn’t be the lesser of two evils, that it wouldn’t do much or anything to help uphold the sanctity of life, and voting for a pro-abortion democrat is therefore acceptable if neither republican or democrat are really pro life because then you can rationalise that other issues such as health care or immigration make the pro-abortion democrat the lesser of two evils. This is faulty. I do not understand how any Catholic can put partisanship above the sanctity of life and traditional marriage. I do not want only the majority of republican legislators to be pro life, I want democrat legislators to be pro life too, but the majority are not, and that is reality.
I think rationalisation that I describe above is alive among some Catholic democrats and that is why you see over and over on this forum Catholics who appear to lean democrat or are committed democrats, make assertions that republicans aren’t really pro life, because if they can convince themselves of it, it might make it easier to rationalise voting for pro-abortion democrats.
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Al_Moritz
Guest
I was born in the US, but lived in Austria/Netherlands/Germany. I came to the US in 1997, so I don’t remember the ‘old’ Democratic Party. At some point I started unthinkingly voting Republican (partly because of social issues), until I woke up politically and realized on just how wrong a path the party was taking the country (and how manipulative Fox News was that I used to watch). I then also realized how deceiving it really was, also on its stance on abortion to which, if not on the state level then at least on the national level, it was just paying lip service to catch gullible voters.
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SaintFrancis333
Guest
Anything he can do to put the blame on the republicans when the government shutdown is 100% “his” choice. He even had the shutdown planned weeks before it happened. One last political ploy to put his own downfall on republicans. Oh how I wish americans would wake up and collectively never vote for a single republican or democrat ever again.
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Monkey1976
Guest
…and thank you for making her point.
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estesbob
Guest
So those of us who have been active in the prolife ministry for years are dupes but you managed to figure it out in 15 years? Yea that makes sense
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Al_Moritz
Guest
In what way?…and thank you for making her point.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I think you’re right when it comes to at least some Catholic Democrats. You still see Democrats, including Catholic Democrats, going on about how the Dem party is “for the poor”, when it has done absolutely nothing for the truly poor for decades. Look at SSI, for example. It’s miserable, and the only increases it has had for years are just the COLAs. Obama could have changed that if he wanted, but he didn’t do it because it was nothing to him or to his party. That’s just one example.
Same thing with it being “for the working man”. Well, the man has to have a job before he can be a “working man”. Look at the absolutely horrible labor participation rates, particularly for the young and minorities. Obamacare and other programs are killing the “working man’s” chances of being a “working man”.
It’s just sickening that people still believe those old concepts are still part of the Dem party program, and swallow their promotion of abortion and compromise their souls because of it. But I really think Obamacare is going to clarify a lot of thinking, and very soon.
It might not matter, though, and I recognize that. Obama is a faction collector and inciter; a “community organizer” to the core of his being. If he believed anything he was taught by his Alinsky mentors, he is trying to slice off a segment of the middle class to make it dependant and forever beholding to his party. He might have his numbers right. But then again, he might not. If he doesn’t, then he and the media can demonize the “diehard” Repubs all they want, but the public will forget all of that if Obamacare stinks as bad as I think it will.
We’ll see. It’s not “game over”. Not yet. And maybe not by a long way.
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Al_Moritz
Guest
Well, I am obviously not the only one who has figured that out, see for example:
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estesbob
Guest
So the rest of us are dupes, correct? After you found another poster who agrees with you so that must make it so?. How many years have you worked in the pro-life ministry
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estesbob
Guest
So the rest of us are dupes, correct? After all you found another poster who agrees with you so that must make it so?.
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99th_Monkey
Guest
According to recent polls, that is like to happen. The government will go back to work. We probably will not default. People will forget how the Republicans brought this on…and then…and then…Ted Cruz will start campaigning for president and remind everyone what can happen when the tea party takes charge. That’s the way I see it.
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99th_Monkey
Guest
I don’t recall anyone saying it was illegal.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Undoubtedly it took a power of work to convince oneself that what one saw before one’s very eyes was bogus. The Repubs instituted a lot of curbs on government support of abortion, (the list is really long. Maybe I kept it somewhere on my computer. If I don’t produce it, someone will if this line of silliness keeps up. ) and Bush appointed two prolife justices.
And so now, you are foursquare on the side of the active abortion promoters because you question the bona fides of those who overtly oppose it. Truly remarkable.
I don’t think you watched Fox News very much. There are two parts to it. One is the “flat news” that’s just news, and isn’t significantly different from what one sees from any other news source; even Al Jazeera. It’s almost like the weather in that way. Then there’s the “commentator” parts, which really are heavily conservative.
But they admit it. The mainstream media is just as partisan on the liberal side, but it DOESN’T admit it.
Can one really be manipulated to conservatism by a gay or gal who says, right up front, that she’s a conservative? Is manipulation really that easy? Can one truly fail to take that into consideration when listening to what he/she says, particularly when that commentator has well known promoters of the opposing views as guests on nearly every show; guests who vigorously and often skillfully contradict everything the commentator says?
Manipulation, to sort of paraphrase Shakespeare, should be made of sterner stuff.
One really would have to work very hard, as I said.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Ever the protagonist.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Do you view upholding the sanctity of life from conception to natural death as a priority, a non negotiable issue? Do you believe in Catholic teaching in regards to the sanctity of life?
Lip service? This is the rationalisation that I commented on that you yourself are doing. Basically you are saying that republicans aren’t doing much or anything about abortion aren’t you?
Lip service definitions
thefreedictionary.com/lip+service
As has been mentioned, hundreds of abortion restriction laws would not have been passed in the last couple of years, without republican legislators, so how is that lip service? How is that just saying you are pro life and not doing anything to show it? On the national level, last republican president George Bush passed many abortion restriction laws and nominated pro lifers to judiciary which has long term beneficial consequences to the pro life movement.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
You left out the part where people will struggle from now until who-know-when to be able to see what their fate is on Obamacare. And I do mean “fate” because the administration has not told people very much about Obamacare, including two really significant things: 1) the exchange coverages are woefully inadequate to cover medical costs in the real world, 2) for anyone making more than the median wage, it’s going to cost more. The estimate for my state is 58% more…all at once.
Maybe Cruz will run for president. Maybe not. Maybe he will run and take a whipping in the primaries. Who knows?
But when your health insurance goes up by 58% in one year and the coverages are so inadequate that the bankruptcy court is the “insurer” for much greater numbers of people than before, and when more and more people find themselves without employer-based insurance, anything Cruz says or does today might not mean anything other than that he might just have been the first surfboard rider on a tidal wave of discontent.
Without question, some people will benefit from Obamacare, or seem to until they run up an unpayable bill and find that even after “bronze plan” payments it’s still unpayable. But are the numbers going to be sufficient to outweigh those whose ability to meet expenses of other kinds are seriously encroached upon by Obamacare?
I don’t know. Obama thinks so, but is he right? Remember, if as many self-described conservatives as voted for Bush had voted for Romney, Obama wouldn’t be in the White House today. I’m not sure the metric is all that secure for the Democrats.
Harry Reid, at least is concerned about it, which is why he protected Senate democrats from ever having to vote on any of the House bills to eliminate Obamacare.
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