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jmgi1957
Guest
The Church is Holy because God is Holy, no amount of evil/sin in the Church can overcome that.
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Frankie65
Guest
I’m glad I chose a neutral name 
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Where have I twisted your words?
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OurGodIsWithUs
Guest
Hey TotusTuus,
I’m sorry that a lotta people are bashing you for your faith. I get it, we’re different. Let me try to give you a convincing argument.
(read men as humankind) (Caps Lock is for emphasis, not screaming…)
If you put your trust in men, men will fail you. If you put your trust in God, God will not fail you. It’s as simple as that. Many people regard church as a community event. Should something go awry in the community, these people are the first to leave.
I, on the other hand, care the least about my relationships with other parishioners and my priest - I focus on my relationship with God.
Allow me to give you a real life example, one from my life.
I’m a racial minority at my church, and I sit in the 4-5th pews from the front. The front is always crowded with the racial majority at my church. I get looks from people, and very rarely does anyone sit with me in my pew. I almost always sit alone, even when church is super crowded. The community doesn’t seem to want me. To tell you the truth from my heart, I don’t feel welcome at my parish.
But do I stop going? NO. I debated with my parents and self. I quickly realized that it is FOOLISH for me to leave GODS church over MEN and their prejudices. And NO, that is NOT an OPINION. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY OF SEEING IT. If someone believes otherwise, they fail to fully believe in God, they believe in man, and are disappointed when man fails. History has shown time and again that this principle is upheld.
I’m sorry that a lotta people are bashing you for your faith. I get it, we’re different. Let me try to give you a convincing argument.
(read men as humankind) (Caps Lock is for emphasis, not screaming…)
If you put your trust in men, men will fail you. If you put your trust in God, God will not fail you. It’s as simple as that. Many people regard church as a community event. Should something go awry in the community, these people are the first to leave.
I, on the other hand, care the least about my relationships with other parishioners and my priest - I focus on my relationship with God.
Allow me to give you a real life example, one from my life.
I’m a racial minority at my church, and I sit in the 4-5th pews from the front. The front is always crowded with the racial majority at my church. I get looks from people, and very rarely does anyone sit with me in my pew. I almost always sit alone, even when church is super crowded. The community doesn’t seem to want me. To tell you the truth from my heart, I don’t feel welcome at my parish.
But do I stop going? NO. I debated with my parents and self. I quickly realized that it is FOOLISH for me to leave GODS church over MEN and their prejudices. And NO, that is NOT an OPINION. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY OF SEEING IT. If someone believes otherwise, they fail to fully believe in God, they believe in man, and are disappointed when man fails. History has shown time and again that this principle is upheld.
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goout
Guest
How do you think Jesus felt/feels?
Does Jesus run from his Body when things go terribly wrong, or does he give his body?
Depressed or not, remaining faithful is the only option.
Does Jesus run from his Body when things go terribly wrong, or does he give his body?
Depressed or not, remaining faithful is the only option.
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JanetF
Guest
This! We have to stay and help to make changes that are necessary to protect Jesus and His Church.
I am not a Catholic because of the priests. I don’t go to mass for the priests. I am a Catholic because it’s the Church Jesus founded and it’s the only one I can attend and receive the Eucharist.
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Daisy
Guest
It only takes one yes, YOUR yes, to bring about the incredibly powerful, transforming spirit of God in action, in communion of church. I say stop looking for it in others, judging others, really. Let it transform you in your heart alone. That’s all God asks.
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Dorothy
Guest
Thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ that He is the Healer!
Our Lord also taught us to pray for our enemies.
In Our Lady’s many approved apparitions we are asked to pray for sinners.
We need the Lord to sanctify us, and as His Light grows in us, the darkness in the world will recede. Ultimately the Church will be relieved of this.
I pray for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary!
Our Lord also taught us to pray for our enemies.
In Our Lady’s many approved apparitions we are asked to pray for sinners.
We need the Lord to sanctify us, and as His Light grows in us, the darkness in the world will recede. Ultimately the Church will be relieved of this.
I pray for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary!
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Daisy
Guest
That’s right! It’s not a time to give up, but to reflect God’s tremendous grace and mercy even brighter, to fight harder.
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Dorothy
Guest
I am sad to hear about that; and am thankful that it doesn’t happen in my parish.
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OurGodIsWithUs
Guest
Yeah, Dorothy. It’s kinda subtle, but I can definitely feel that. I don’t really blame my fellow parishioners though, they were raised that way maybe. It’s probably not their fault - let’s be friendly to all in our time here on earth. 
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TotusTuusForever
Guest
I heard a nun say it was once.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Well, dear sister was mistaken.
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TotusTuusForever
Guest
Your point?I wonder where they get it from.
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Fauken
Guest
Like @TheLittleLady said, the Church is not heaven on earth, nor was it ever meant to be. If I had to use an illustration, I would say the Church is like a massive citadel. Its walls are simply impenetrable: they’re so thick and high that siege equipment is useless against it. The walls and gates will never be broken, not ever. But, every citadel has a gate for people to enter and exit. The devil is not so stupid that he would spend all of time trying to destroy an indestructible wall. Instead, he sends his agents through the gate to destroy buildings inside it. Now, this damage can be repaired, but, you’ll probably say, the damage is still done. Yes, damage has been done. Satan has infiltrated the city. But Satan cannot and will not win. He is not fighting to win, he’s fighting to take as many down with him as he can. We are fighting against someone whose hatred towards us is beyond reason. Someone who hates us by our mere existence. Despite his damage being fixed every time he causes it, despite every agent of his failing to bring down the citadel, he still persists. And he will continue to persist and use any advantage he possibly can to his advantage. Such as sowing doubt about the efficacy and purpose of the walls.
"Unless the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it."
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farronwolf
New member
So reading through a lot of this thread but not the entire thing, like most issues there are some pretty distinctive camps.
In one camp there is Priests are people too, some have sinned, but it is a minority, we must look at all the good Priests out there and overcome the shortcomings of the Church in recent history. Yes this happens in all walks of life. Very simplified.
In the other camp, we have people who have a hard time keeping their faith when those who were supposedly called to lead us in faith have so failed in that leadership.
Sorry to say, I tend to agree more with the second camp.
Regardless if there have been 1,000 or 100 or 10,000 Priests identified who are guilty of abusing children or adults in their parishes, here are some facts for those who want to talk about facts.
Bishops, Cardinals and Pope’s themselves knew about the reports of abuse. They moved Priests around, allowed Priests who themselves were in states of mortal sin to continue to celebrate Mass and administer Parishes. They allowed these events to continue in an attempt to “protect” the institution of the Church. The Church is not a football team, a school, a youth organization or whatever, we don’t go to those places for guidance on faith and morality like we look for in our Church.
To me, this places the Church hierarchy who knew or had information about these things over the years in a state of mortal sin themselves for failing to act appropriately. How many times have I read on this forum of how sinful it is for a Catholic to do or not do something and one must run to confession immediately. Yet we give the Bishops a pass. That we must not receive the Holy Eucharist if not completely ready to receive, yet there were/are Priests and Bishops celebrating Mass when they should not be.
The Church and it’s leaders should be held to the same standards that they teach their parishioners to live by, which are God’s standards, not by man’s.
In one camp there is Priests are people too, some have sinned, but it is a minority, we must look at all the good Priests out there and overcome the shortcomings of the Church in recent history. Yes this happens in all walks of life. Very simplified.
In the other camp, we have people who have a hard time keeping their faith when those who were supposedly called to lead us in faith have so failed in that leadership.
Sorry to say, I tend to agree more with the second camp.
Regardless if there have been 1,000 or 100 or 10,000 Priests identified who are guilty of abusing children or adults in their parishes, here are some facts for those who want to talk about facts.
Bishops, Cardinals and Pope’s themselves knew about the reports of abuse. They moved Priests around, allowed Priests who themselves were in states of mortal sin to continue to celebrate Mass and administer Parishes. They allowed these events to continue in an attempt to “protect” the institution of the Church. The Church is not a football team, a school, a youth organization or whatever, we don’t go to those places for guidance on faith and morality like we look for in our Church.
To me, this places the Church hierarchy who knew or had information about these things over the years in a state of mortal sin themselves for failing to act appropriately. How many times have I read on this forum of how sinful it is for a Catholic to do or not do something and one must run to confession immediately. Yet we give the Bishops a pass. That we must not receive the Holy Eucharist if not completely ready to receive, yet there were/are Priests and Bishops celebrating Mass when they should not be.
The Church and it’s leaders should be held to the same standards that they teach their parishioners to live by, which are God’s standards, not by man’s.
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John10
Guest
It is painful to see some of the things happening on our Catholic Church. However, the fact that for over 20 centuries the Catholic Church continues to stand, despite human weaknesses (both from within as well as from outside the Church) just further proves it is God who is sustaining the Catholic Church. Remember Jesus promised not to allow His Church to be completely defeated, and so far that promise has always been kept.
At the same time we must also recognize the many saints and holy people who the Catholic Church has provided throughout the years. Last but not least, we cannot forget abuses happen on all levels of our society it’s not just a “Catholic Church” or religious problem.
At the same time we must also recognize the many saints and holy people who the Catholic Church has provided throughout the years. Last but not least, we cannot forget abuses happen on all levels of our society it’s not just a “Catholic Church” or religious problem.
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Fauken
Guest
Probably because you’re oversimplifying what they’re saying.
Which none of them have claimed.
Which no one has done, nor said that unrepentant clergy guilty of those crimes should be able to present themselves for Holy Communion “because they’re clergy”.
Which all parties would agree with.
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farronwolf
New member
“Which no one has done, nor said that unrepentant clergy guilty of those crimes should be able to present themselves for Holy Communion “because they’re clergy””.
What about the clergy who were aware of the issues and did not act properly who continued to celebrate Mass?
I am not talking about the clergy who were perpetrating the crimes against youth or taking advantage of their parishioners. I am talking about the Bishops, Cardinals and even Pope’s who instead of stopping it immediately, let it continue. They are just as guilty as the perpetrator, possibly more so. Their actions are the ones which created the scandal.
What about the clergy who were aware of the issues and did not act properly who continued to celebrate Mass?
I am not talking about the clergy who were perpetrating the crimes against youth or taking advantage of their parishioners. I am talking about the Bishops, Cardinals and even Pope’s who instead of stopping it immediately, let it continue. They are just as guilty as the perpetrator, possibly more so. Their actions are the ones which created the scandal.
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