Depressed About Catholic Church

[Divine3]

Well, scorning is not a wise path to take…Maybe they are handsome, pretty lawyers who would never charge a fee. They only take fees as they seek to get money for their clients who need professional counseling. These amazing lawyers, you are refering to, would never seek high wages, would they? Maybe they give their service free of charge, because as we know, millions of Catholics have sacrificed to build their churches for the honor and glory of God and no decent lawyer or victim would ever want their diocese to go bankrupt. Or to stop the emense free services our churches provide for the poor, the sick our youth , the disabled and our homebound senior citizens. I had no idea the lawyers you were referring to were virtuous, like the glowing Saint Thomas More who gave up his life for Jesus and for the Church. Forgive my ignorance.

 

[on_the_hill]

@TotusTuusForever—find a hero in the Church to guide you and stay.

My wife knew two priests from her high school who turned out to be abusers. In addition, the priest who married us and baptized our first born child and buried my father turned out to be an abuser.

But we know a fourth priest in the Pennsylvania report–our pastor. He had been on staff where an abusive priest had done his dirty work. To help one of the victims recover some of his dignity our priest defied orders from his diocesan superiors. That was where I found my hero.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Precisely.I pray daily for all those who were complicit and perpetrators,for contriton in their hearts.I also pray for all the victims as well

 

[Gab123]

First of all, stop trying to shame me or making a valid point. Second, the holy priests don’t make up for that fact that evil priest existed under the guide of holy one. It doesn’t’ matter where else sexual abuse happens. The church should be the one place where it doesn’t happen. We all should be horrified, but people like you have an attitude of acquiescence towards the scandal. If you were the one raped and molested inside a church I think you might have a different attitude.

Your logic would be like blaming God for allowing bad people to exist in the world.
Realize once and for all that there were, are, and always will be liars, adulterers, thieves, fornicators, murderers, perverts, traitors, calumniators, and all sorts of scoundrels, among both the laity and the clergy, beginning with the liar who was a thief and a traitor named Judas among the 12 apostles. There never was a time when there weren’t bad people among the good. Simply read the Acts of the Apostles to learn about all the scandals and problems the apostles were dealing with 2,000 years ago.

As for the sexual abuse scandals in the Church, do your research. The vast majority of instances are not cases of pedophilia, but homosexual relationships with teenagers often 16 or 17 years old, or even older; while still a crime and seriously sinful, in almost all cases with older teen-agers, there is an element of consent.

Yes, we must call the police and report abuse; yes there shouldn’t be bad priests; yes, all human beings should choose good over evil; yes, this world is a terrible place when people do bad things. The problem is that we live in a fallen world full of weak, cowardly, sinful people, and subsequently evil has its way. I know of many many outstanding holy priests, great parishes, and tons of good people doing good in the world. Wha you don’t want to do is besmirch the Church because of the sins of Judas. Please read this short report

 

[Elf01]

Your logic would be like blaming God for allowing bad people to exist in the world.
Realize once and for all that there were, are, and always will be liars, adulterers, thieves, fornicators, murderers, perverts, traitors, calumniators, and all sorts of scoundrels, among both the laity and the clergy, beginning with the liar who was a thief and a traitor named Judas among the 12 apostles. There never was a time when there weren’t bad people among the good. Simply read the Acts of the Apostles to learn about all the scandals and problems the apostles were dealing with 2,000 years ago.

As for the sexual abuse scandals in the Church, do your research. The vast majority of instances are not cases of pedophilia, but homosexual relationships with teenagers often 16 or 17 years old, or even older; while still a crime and seriously sinful, in almost all cases with older teen-agers, there is an element of consent.

Frankly those posts convince me that nothing has changed. Instinct is to whitewash and cover up, even among the laity.

 

[Gab123]

Frankly those posts convince me that nothing has changed. Instinct is to whitewash and cover up, even among the laity.

The problem is sin. Unfortunately not everyone is as smart as the people in the peanut gallery… Too bad you are not in charge. We need people like you to fix the problem and keep tabs on everybody to make sure the aren’t any bad people in the world. Unfortunately the kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.

 

[VeryBlessed]

Im just so heartbroken over all of the evil within the Church that I am starting to wonder where the holiness is.

“Let my heart be broken by the things that break the heart of God.” I have been praying for a greater move of the Holy Spirit - in me, in my parish, and in the whole church.

And I’m really starting to think that God’s biggest miracle apart from the resurrection is keeping the Church holy and anchored in truth for 2000 years, and doing so without having one single perfect person to do it through.

 

[VeryBlessed]

I am still Catholic, but I was hoping that someone would be able to provide a theological argument on why God would allow this to happen. Instead, I have almost exclusively received ad hominem arguments.

Why God would allow this to happen? I think you’ve had the hard but simple answer mixed into the replies. Because he gives us free will, which makes very great sin possible, but without which, love would not exist between him and us. He has in a sense decided to tie his own hands and will not step in and stop us from doing evil. I guess he’d rather have a world where love was possible, rather than a moral world made up of puppets. And someday, all evil comes to an end, but love lives on forever. Evil dies but good lives forever. We’re getting there, just not there yet. I’m glad it bothers you; I guess it should bother all of us as much as it bothers him… But I won’t let evil make me stop seeing his goodness.

 

[Psalm30]

For every child or teenager who has been abused…tell me where was the parent?

I don’t agree with any of your comments on this thread, but this one has gone way, way too far.

Do you seriously believe parents were wrong to trust their children with ordained men who were supposed to be doing the work of God?

You need to take a good look at what you have written, put yourself in the victim’s shoes, and imagine how you would feel if your child were abused by a priest and someone tried to tell you it was your fault.

How many parents have allowed their children to be alone without ever questioning where they are, who are they with and what’s going on. And that’s not just about the few priests who are Judases.

Most abusers are people who are known and trusted by the family — friends, relatives, teachers, coaches, etc. Very few cases of abuse involve strangers.

Your statements putting blame on parents for “not knowing who their kids are with” is, frankly, abhorrent.

Not all baptized Catholics kill themselves after traumatic abuse, some have recourse to the sacraments, to running to Christ for healing and some courageously carry their cross.

Do you understand the severity of the damage sexual abuse does to a person? Just because someone doesn’t kill him/herself doesn’t mean it’s not traumatic. This statement once again minimizes what the victims have gone through.

 

[Divine3]

"Most abusers are people who are known and trusted by the family—friends, relatives, teaches,
Coaches, etc. Very few cases of abuse involve strangers. "
That is right, and very, very few are priest and I meant this regarding abuse by those who are not priest. (The few Judas priest are mentioned) As you stated most abuse is done by those people you mentioned.

 

[Psalm30]

So…why blame the parents?

 

[Divine3]

The ugly cruelty of sexual abuse has many tragic paths. The child, the adolescent is a victim and God will take the abuser to the depths of the sea. A millstone around one’s neck and being thrown in the sea is an image Jesus used for the justice of God towards a child abuser. I have sadly met too many girls who might never been abused if the parents had been more observant, asked where the child was going, and had been present to their child instead of caring more for their own needs. Also poverty, a great injustice that many upper middle class and rich folk are totally indifferent to has opened a heartless path of abuse for children. The single mom, the drug addict mom or dad and the alcoholic who hasn’t a clue as to where their little child has wandered off to. Yes, parents need to also look at how they are present to their child

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Many, but not all, have indeed been punished by the church and the civil criminal justice system.

A handful out of thousands. = “virtually none” As for the civil courts, even fewer–but of course they have to contend with statutes of limitations and “guilty beyond reasonable doubt.”

Of course it depends on how you define “punished.” Is being exiled to a luxurious villa in Florida all expenses paid defined as punishment? Is being allowed to travel, speak in the Church’s name, and keep your priestly powers “punishment”?

One of my favorites is a priest in Virginia. He noticed that a fellow priest was getting gay porn (in the mail!!! addressed to the rectory!!!). He reported the priest to the archbishop. And the archbishop acted IMMEDIATELY. Yes indeed. He suspended the priest who complained. He did absolutely nothing to the priest getting the gay porn delivered to the rectory in the mail. Wow. Harsh!

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I get it all right. I simply don’t put my faith in money. One can’t rely on money to change attitudes or behavior.

As I said in an earlier post, if you have a more effective way to bring about reform, please let me (and the world) know. We would all be grateful.

I have the impression that although most priests are good people and have nothing to do with the scandals, they also have the attitude that “it has nothing to do with me.” So they meekly sit back and wait for the leaders to lead. Meanwhile, 30 years later…nothing. But what if all those priests suddenly saw their revenues drop 50% and they couldn’t pay their mortgages, let alone church employees, the heating bill, etc.? I have a feeling that they would be beating down the bishop’s door demanding action. Money talks. Again, if you see another answer, let me know.

 

[Divine3]

Do have any clue how the filthy porn companies can send their maggot porn through the mail without you ever meaning to sign up for it? You just state something about disgusting porn and without any facts ,except for the action of one of the hierarchy who had more facts than you do, and who knows how it came to the rectory. Anyone can get porn to someone’s house and it can be an evil way to attack someone.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Your statements putting blame on parents for “not knowing who their kids are with” is, frankly, abhorrent.

Absolutely. It’s blaming the victim. It’s the equivalent of saying “Why did you dress so provocatively?” 100% of the blame is on the abusers. No exceptions, no excuses. Whatever happened to that quaint verse about “it would be better if he put a millstone around is neck…” Oh. Maybe Jesus was just kidding?

 

[Divine3]

And Jesus has lots to say about money, doesn’t he?

 

[Psalm30]

And yet you said in an earlier post that most abuse cases involve a trusted person.

You are jumping around and responding to selective points to sway people to your side of the argument. Really…how else were your comments supposed to be interpreted in the context of this discussion?

For every child or teenager who has been abused…tell me where was the parent?

First, you put the blame on parents of every child or teenager who has been abused for abuse done to their children.

"Most abusers are people who are known and trusted by the family—friends, relatives, teaches,
Coaches, etc. Very few cases of abuse involve strangers. "
That is right, and very, very few are priest and I meant this regarding abuse by those who are not priest. (The few Judas priest are mentioned) As you stated most abuse is done by those people you mentioned.

Then you agree that most abusers are known and trusted by the parents, which disproves your first statement. How are all of these parents being negligent by allowing their children to be alone with dear Uncle Bob whom they love and trust? Or a teacher who is supposed to be trustworthy? Or a long time family friend? That’s not negligence on the part of the parents.

The ugly cruelty of sexual abuse has many tragic paths. The child, the adolescent is a victim and God will take the abuser to the depths of the sea. A millstone around one’s neck and being thrown in the sea is an image Jesus used for the justice of God towards a child abuser. I have sadly met too many girls who might never been abused if the parents had been more observant, asked where the child was going, and had been present to their child instead of caring more for their own needs. Also poverty, a great injustice that many upper middle class and rich folk are totally indifferent to has opened a heartless path of abuse for children. The single mom, the drug addict mom or dad and the alcoholic who hasn’t a clue as to where their little child has wandered off to. Yes, parents need to also look at how they are present to their child

Now, after stating that parents of all abuse victims are to blame, and then jumping to a point that disproves that statement (most abusers are trusted people), you are suddenly playing the card of truly negligent parents who could indeed do a better job of protecting their children.

Make no mistake, I don’t believe all priests are abusers. I have a number of priests in my life whom I love and respect very much. And I don’t think the Catholic Church, as an institution, is corrupt because some of its members behaved sinfully. It’s just that so many posts here undermine and downplay the severity of these abuses, and nothing good can come of that.

 

[otjm]

Luke 10:7: Stay in the same house and eat and drink what is offered to you, for the laborer deserves his payment."

If you wish to pick a bone with scripture, which supports the laborer deserving the payment, have at it. Attorneys take such cases as the abuse cases and work for free until there is either a settlement, or through a trial to a decision, or through a trial and decision and then through an appeal and decision. and if they don’t win the case, the hundreds, and possibly thousands of hours they have spent are for free.

And yet you persist in bad mouthing the attorneys. Were it not for the attorneys and the cases tried and won, do tell us what would have turned the Church around to deal with these priests in any fashion other than what they had been doing. We are all waiting to hear as to how the Church would have executed a 180 degree turn from their past history.

 

[AlNg]

And yet you persist in bad mouthing the attorneys. Were it not for the attorneys and the cases tried and won, do tell us what would have turned the Church around to deal with these priests in any fashion other than what they had been doing.

Attorneys have made a whole lot of money with these cases. For example, did they take 1/3 of the 800 million or so dollars in a settlement involving the LA archdiocese? And that is just one settlement among many.

We are all waiting to hear as to how the Church would have executed a 180 degree turn from their past history.

Recent reports don’t seem to back up your assertion of a 180 degree turn.