Deteriorating species

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MindOverMatter2 said:
There is nothing wrong with my question. Your reaction and your unwillingness to answer the question directly, tells us much more about your opinion and your agenda here than you are willing to explain or admit. But hay, none of us are perfect; except you maybe:rolleyes:.
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I at least don’t pretend to be pious. I’ve already told you that my political and social beliefs are not informed by my knowledge of Darwinian Theory. I believe in from each according to his ability to each according to his need, as I have already said, the exact antithesis of the natural biological world.

Just because I understand the hard reality of the natural world does not mean that I wouldn’t like to see mankind try to practice some compassion and empathy.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. When was i pretending to be pious?
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Oh come on… All that baiting about my explaining whom is and is not a burden? Because there’s no way that an atheist could wish for empathy, charity and kindness, is there? Is that not what you were thinking?

Well I resent that. I can’t tell you how much I resent that, you prig!
 
Moonstruck888 said:
Oh come on… All that baiting about my explaining whom is and is not a burden? Because there’s no way that an atheist could wish for empathy, charity and kindness, is there? Is that not what you were thinking?

Well I resent that. I can’t tell you how much I resent that, you prig!
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If you are going to call me something, have the guts to use a real word that normal people can understand. In any case, I think you are reading something in to my question that isn’t there. Whats wrong with my question? Do you even understand it? It doesn’t seem that you do.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
If you are going to call me something, have the guts to use a real word that normal people can understand. In any case, I think you are reading something in to my question that isn’t there. Whats wrong with my question? Do you even understand it? It doesn’t seem that you do.
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Definitions of prig on the Web:
Code: 
* snob: a person regarded as arrogant and annoying
  wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
If you really don’t know what’s wrong with your question, then why, how I pity you. However, I think you know exactly why it disgusts me so.

Principles are not the soul provenence of religious people. Only a conceited bigot would think so.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
I never said that atheists cannot do what I recognise to be objectively good. I asked you a question and you chose to avoid it by calling me names.
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I’ve answered it, twice, three times counting this one. Understanding the implications of Evolutionary Theory and setting stock by it as a moral code are two utterly different things.

This is the third time I have answered your question. I believe you richly deserve to be called names.
 
Moonstruck888 said:
This is the third time I have answered your question. I believe you richly deserve to be called names.
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What makes you think that people deserve to be called names; is that something you made up because it pleases you to think so?

As for my question, here its is again…

Do you wish to believe that human life is only valuable when you say it is, as in, when it is not a burden to you?

If you don’t want to answer it, just ignore it, I won’t bother you again.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
What makes you think that people deserve to be called names; is that something you made up because it pleases you to think so?

As for my question, here its is again…

Do you wish to believe that human life is only valuable when you say it is, as in, when it is not a burden to you?

If you don’t want to answer it, just ignore it, I won’t bother you again.
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I don’t believe that. I reject it. I believe in from each according to his ability to each according to his need. I don’t see how I can be any more plain than that. I do not believe that anyone is a burden nor do I wish to believe that anyone is a burden.

Moreover, I would never dream of setting up myself, nor even my own particular superhuman imaginary friend, as the sole arbiter of whom should have and have not.
 
Moonstruck888 said:
Moreover, I would never dream of setting up myself…as the sole arbiter of whom should have and have not.
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But for some reason you believe that the value of a bag of chemicals should be determined by what you think; which is evident here…
Moonstruck888 said:
each according to his ability to each according to his need. I don’t see how I can be any more plain than that.
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This is something you made up because it makes you feel better, yes? You don’t really believe that people “ought” to be treated like that do you? Would it be wrong to treat them otherwise? If not, then why not treat them otherwise if you have the power to do so?
 
Do you know what saved the mammals and birds when the KT event occurred? Ferns. Hardy ferns that grew in harsh conditions and gave the mammals and the birds, the last living line of the the dinosaurs that still exists today after tens of millions of years, something to eat.
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If you say ferns saved the mammals and birds, I’m fine with that. I’m not arguing about who can/should survive. You brought it up, not me. It’s all one to me. The day all the scientists agree with just one theory then maybe I’ll say that’s the answer to end all answers, but scientists don’t all agree, and as I understand it, don’t even care to agree–they like asking questions and exploring possibilities. I thought that’s what we were doing here, not planting flags. I think it lovely that birds are most probably the descendants of dinosaurs. I like the good old dinosaurs and would be thrilled to think at least one type carried on–I hope that’s what happened. I’m fine with that idea, too. It’s not a settled thing in science, but I would be perfectly happy to know it’s the case. Why wouldn’t I be? 🤷
What happens when all the nouveau riche in China and India decide they want two cars in the driveway in the next twenty years?
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Hopefully, they’ll be wiser about it than we’ve been in the West. We own a 1989 Isusu truck with over 200,000 miles on it and can’t afford something newer because my husband hasn’t been able to get anything but short term contract jobs for the last several years. I’m no champion of rampant capitalism. Why would you think I am?
Yeah, it would be terrible if the Muslims did to the Christians what the Christians have done to everyone else for the last thousnd years.
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This sounds like one of those knee-jerk reactions from someone who has been reading a lot of anti-Christian propaganda. You don’t have to believe Christianity has been a boon to humanity if you don’t want to. That’s up to you, but it’s all too true that the Muslim world at the present time seems happy enough to let their fringe elements run amok with no significant restraints from Muslim leaders/countries. It serves their overall agenda too well. Many peoples down through the ages have played that game. Some have won at it and some have lost (the Nazis come readily to mind as well as the efforts of many communists leaders/countries). They’re no worse than any other group of people who think they have the right to force others to do/believe as they do. It’s all about power, really, not religious belief or lack of it. Humans breed tyrants and crazies in every generation and country. We’re a broken lot in need of help. I see no help in atheism–it’s been tried and failed because it simply doesn’t work for the happiness and security of peoples and countries. Anything that doesn’t do that is doomed to fail in the end no matter how hard those who push it want it to–it goes against human nature.

Anyhoo, I didn’t start this thread to argue about evolution–good God let’s not have another senseless turn around the mulberry bush about that! Frankly, I could care less about matters of “horse breeding”. I’ll leave that to biologists. I only wanted to discuss if we are doing ourselves in through manipulating our biology or other means and what that portends for us as human beings. If you don’t want to discuss that then please don’t. Thank you.
 
Dale_M said:
I think we are under God’s providence and that the Second Coming will happen when God decides it is time. Yes, from a completely naturalistic point of view, human beings will likely become extinct. But I have full faith that this will not happen before God wills it.
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Me too. I’m just wondering it that’s a part of God’s plan, you see.
I’m not sure that, as a species, we are producing more children with disorders. Perhaps we are simply enabling more of them to live. Our medical ability and our economic prosperity has skyrocketed during the past 200 or more years ago and this gives us a different set of circumstances. Children who would have died in earlier times now survive, and we have the means to support them, even if they can not support themselves. And our understanding of disorders is vastly improved. For example, children with autism might have formerly been classified under a vague general category such as “feeble-minded” or “idiot” or “mentally retarded.”
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Yes, that’s true. I have two nephews with MD who have survived into their late twenties, so far. A few years ago they would have died in their early teens. Still they aren’t going to be reproducing. It’s possible such deformities are a safety valve for our species, genetically speaking. We’ll just have to see how the human race goes on from here.
I know that some species have encountered evolutionary bottlenecks (cheetahs, for instance) where most of the individuals are killed, leaving only a relative few to carry on. Such bottlenecks greatly reduce the genetic diversity in a species. But I am not aware of any such bottlenecks for humans. Would you be willing to provide some examples?
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We humans experienced such a bottleneck 70,000 years ago when our numbers fell to around 10,000. A super volcano nearly did us in. Indeed, we’re all related to the survivors, narrowing down our genetic diversity. Another such event could be catastrophe to us. Still, God knows all about such things, so there’ll be people when Christ returns. There might just be a lot fewer of us. 🙂
 
Please use your utmost charity when continuing this conversation (and any other conversation for that matter! 👍)

God Bless-

Rachel
 
Della said:
If you say ferns saved the mammals and birds, I’m fine with that. I’m not arguing about who can/should survive. You brought it up, not me. It’s all one to me. The day all the scientists agree with just one theory then maybe I’ll say that’s the answer to end all answers, but scientists don’t all agree, and as I understand it, don’t even care to agree–they like asking questions and exploring possibilities. I thought that’s what we were doing here, not planting flags. I think it lovely that birds are most probably the descendants of dinosaurs. I like the good old dinosaurs and would be thrilled to think at least one type carried on–I hope that’s what happened. I’m fine with that idea, too. It’s not a settled thing in science, but I would be perfectly happy to know it’s the case. Why wouldn’t I be? 🤷
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Only a few scientists still dispute it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_birds
Hopefully, they’ll be wiser about it than we’ve been in the West. We own a 1989 Isusu truck with over 200,000 miles on it and can’t afford something newer because my husband hasn’t been able to get anything but short term contract jobs for the last several years. I’m no champion of rampant capitalism. Why would you think I am?
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I don’t think you are a champion of unbridled capitalism. I think you have far too much faith in man’s ability to make wise choices. I see no evidence that we do. I find it hard to imagine that China will exercise any more restraint than we have, although in twenty years time we could well be protected from the worst cancers of power by no longer having it.
Anyhoo, I didn’t start this thread to argue about evolution–good God let’s not have another senseless turn around the mulberry bush about that! Frankly, I could care less about matters of “horse breeding”. I’ll leave that to biologists. I only wanted to discuss if we are doing ourselves in through manipulating our biology or other means and what that portends for us as human beings. If you don’t want to discuss that then please don’t. Thank you.
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That remains to be seen. I am very worried about the way genetic engineers plan to manipulate biology.
 
Moonstruck888 said:
Isn’t that enough? It is for me.
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Would you have a problem with creating the best in foods from plants and animals using an in vitro technique and/or the use of selective genes? At the university here, agricultural students are experimenting by obtaining eggs and sperm from the best cows for dairy production and uniting them by in vitro fertilization and transplanting them into ordinary cows. Several fruits and vegetables in our supermarkets are the result of genetic manipulation or sometimes just grafting.

My concern would be if these creative techniques would be applied to humans in a “brave new world” scenario.
 
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