Devotion to Mary

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Edwin:tsktsk: God exalts the lowly:tsktsk: Henceforth,ALL generations shall call me blessed?Remember that?Or do you feel that scripture should be thrown out?You said,“NO TRUE LOVING MOTHER WOULD BULLDOZE HER HONORED SON AND ALLOW HER NAME TO BE PROMOTED”:tsktsk: I say to you no LOVING Son would allow His Mother to be marginalized by HIS creation:mad: The last post was mean and an attempt to degrade Catholics and mislead people of our intentions and falsely accuse us of believing what you are accusing us of.
 
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edwinG:
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Hi mrS4ntA,
Possibly St Louis deMontfort forgot that the Holy Spirit made all souls. What Mr deMontfort is speaking is man’s wisdom and nice mushy sounding words.
The problem with Roman Catholics is that they don’t love Mary enough. If you really loved Mary do you think she would want a part of her Son’s glory, given by God because God wants to honor His Holy Name Jesus Christ. Christ paid with suffering of soul to the point of death and physical suffering of pain unto death and in His obedience to His Fathers will, His father has forever honored His Holy name.
And Catholics downgrade Mary by saying she is the type of person who would cash in on her Son’s glory by the promotion of her name. You are saying she wants her name up there beside His name. Her name is being promoted and you are doing it and saying it is what she wants. You are saying she is the type of woman who wants her name promoted beside her Son’s name. I love Mary the mother of Jesus, the humble lady who was **always in the background. **
You have a Mary who is constantly doing signs and wonders, healing and leading, forever pushing forward, who has her name linked with worship, see the post above. I am telling you, this is the wrong Mary, not Jesus’s mother. IF you really loved Mary the mother of Jesus, you would not accuse her of promoting her name, of doing Jesus’s work of healing, of doing the work of the Holy Spirit by leading. You are accusing her of being an overbearing pushy limelight seeking lady. You have the wrong Mary.

Your love of Mary the mother of our beloved Jesus should recognise the real Mary, humble and in the background as she was portrayed in Holy Scripture.
I pray that you recognise the traits of a sincere mother. And Mary is that, fully beautiful and blessed and we can thank God for her as she rests in Abraham’s busom.
I pray that you recognise that the mary who does signs and miracles in your midst is not the mother of Christ. No true loving mother would bulldoze her honored Son and allow her name to be promoted.
walk in love
edwinG
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It is me again.
I need to witness to you.
when I submitted the post above post my computer screen was filled with a glorious picture of our blessed mother Mary holding the baby Jesus. I went down on my knees and thanked God in Jesus’s holy name.
I take it from this sign that Christ fully approves of this post.
It can not be approval from the false mary as this post is against her.
Walk in love
how blessed we are in Christ
edwinG
 
Huiou Theou:
edwin, did you read my second sentence? – unregenerate = NOT born again.

Yes, I know it was small and easy to miss.
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Hi Huiou Theou,
Thank you for pointing this out so we can move forward in our discussion.
So my point is " as we dont have wisdom we are to love everyone. We dont know who will be the next one saved. To hate some killer ( as Paul was) is wrong. He, the killer, may be the next one saved. " We need to see all people as saved, it is our prayer, and to see their sin as chains binding them and blinding. These chains and blindfolds are the work of evil spirits. Christ is the difference. Every person sins but in Christ is victory. Look beyond the sin and see the person desperately needing Christ for salvation. Love the person in spite of their sin. From the opposite viewpoint, if you only loved those without sin, who would you love?
walk in love
edwinG
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Edwin:tsktsk: God exalts the lowly:tsktsk: Henceforth,ALL generations shall call me blessed?Remember that?Or do you feel that scripture should be thrown out?You said,“NO TRUE LOVING MOTHER WOULD BULLDOZE HER HONORED SON AND ALLOW HER NAME TO BE PROMOTED”:tsktsk: I say to you no LOVING Son would allow His Mother to be marginalized by HIS creation:mad: The last post was mean and an attempt to degrade Catholics and mislead people of our intentions and falsely accuse us of believing what you are accusing us of.
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Hi Lisa4,
I know God exalts the lowly and yes I call Mary blessed. I agree with you.
Your words about loving sons and mothers being marginalized doesn’t strike me as being appropriate.
The post you refer to was accepted by Christ. In my 600 (I think) posts, there is none I feel more at ease with now. Before submitting it I feared the hornets that would follow ,but I thought well here goes, and WHAM. Mary’s beautiful picture. Christ is with me on this post. How amazing. I am tingling now.
Your words at least lack understanding. There is no attempt to degrade. My post is one of love, for Mary and for Catholics. If I didnt love you I wouldnt care. I would be off here away from some petty mindedness and reading scripture or being edified by watching some preaching on TV.
What is not true. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt lead you. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt heal and give you signs and miracles. Dozens of posts attest to the “grace from mary”
walk in love
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
,
Hi mrS4ntA,
Possibly St Louis deMontfort forgot that the Holy Spirit made all souls. What Mr deMontfort is speaking is man’s wisdom and nice mushy sounding words.
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Actually, those were my words; I was paraphrasing because I read his book True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary quite some time ago. But he did indeed use romantic language, but I see it as one filled with fillial love to this worthy Mother
The problem with Roman Catholics is that they don’t love Mary enough.
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Some other saint (was it St Bernard?) said you could never love Mary enough as you could never compare to the love Jesus gave to His mother.
And Catholics downgrade Mary by saying she is the type of person who would cash in on her Son’s glory by the promotion of her name. You are saying she wants her name up there beside His name. Her name is being promoted and you are doing it and saying it is what she wants. You are saying she is the type of woman who wants her name promoted beside her Son’s name.
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That’s a fallacious argument, putting words into our mouth. Christ, being perfect, honoured His mother. Mary never wanted anything for herself. “Let it be done to me according to Thy will,” she said. Her fiat is always a source of inspiration for us. Her glory is totally God-given. Indeed, Christ ascended into Heaven; but Mary was assumed. The Church’s doctrine, too, teaches the assumption – NOT ascension – of Mary.
I love Mary the mother of Jesus, the humble lady who was **always in the background. **
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EXACTLY why we honour her so much. Her humilty is one of the main traits of Mary that we revere. Many saints, including St Louis de Montfort that you belittled, reflected and preached a GREAT deal on the Blessed Virgin’s profound humility.
You have a Mary who is constantly doing signs and wonders, healing and leading, forever pushing forward, who has her name linked with worship, see the post above. I am telling you, this is the wrong Mary, not Jesus’s mother. IF you really loved Mary the mother of Jesus, you would not accuse her of promoting her name, of doing Jesus’s work of healing, of doing the work of the Holy Spirit by leading. You are accusing her of being an overbearing pushy limelight seeking lady. You have the wrong Mary.
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That’s just your impression. In every apparition of Our Lady (that the Church approved) she always reminded us of her Son, how the world needs to repent to appease God’s wrath, how she could intercede on the world’s behalf to her Son’s mercy. In no apparition, approved or otherwise, did she ask, “worhip me for I am glorious.” Get your facts right.
 
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edwinG:
Hi Lisa,
This is the picture that came up on my computer screen when I submitted that post you so object to.
walk in love
edwinG
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well, Lisa posted that picture! what’s your point?

This picture symbolises our relationship with the Blessed Virgin and her glorious Son: the way she constantly points to her Son. “Do whatever He tells you to.” If you do not object to this picture – like many iconoclastic protestants do; then what have you been fighting for? A false perception of what you think is the Catholic faith, I think…

Someone once said, “few hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they think is the Catholic CHurch.”

hope you’re neither of them…

In Christum via Mariam,
S4ntA.
 
Edwin you said this-What is not true. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt lead you. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt heal and give you signs and miracles. Dozens of posts attest to the “grace from mary”
walk in love
edwinG
Mary says in scripture do whatever HE tells you(He is Jesus).She prays for us to Jesus like you would pray for us BUT you are not Blessed nor Jesus’ mom.She is the perfect role model a creature who said YES to God and perfectly submitted to Gods will,she is full of grace that God gave her.My point is God exalts her.Mary can INTERCEDE with God for Healings and signs if God permits it.The argument you are trying to use would make the acts of the apostles null and void.:nope:
 
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Pug:
EdwinG,

In part, I agree. Jesus would have died for any of us, and that is love. Also, his love for each of us is full, because Jesus wouldn’t have a part-love. He is too good for that.

But I think about the “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated” passages, like rom9:13, or in mal. Jacob received more blessing and more “love” from God. Perhaps Mary is like Jacob and got more. She is “blessed among women”, and thus a bit different or more blessed.

I agree, we should not distinguish a person out and not love them. That would be very wrong, and it could scare people away from being Christian.

However, I think we should call Mary blessed compared to others. We should call her so because the Almighty has in fact done great things for her. (from in Luke1:49).

I’m not fully sure what I think it means about God’s love and Him having given someone more than someone else.
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Hi Pug,
Great thoughtful post. I dont know. But before Christ, it was a different age and truths were still forthcoming so that they could be written into scriputure to edify us. We have a doing God. The lessons I feel we are to learn from people like Jacob and Esau is the abundance one receives by accepting and hence being loved and blessed by God. Jacob was the seed and loved and blessed. Esau was not seed and not loved(hated). I am positive that God in his judgment knows how to balance the scales. We need to remember that God pours out His love on all of creation, sends His rain on the wicked and the righteous.
But in Christ all are now welcome. Scripture has been completed. The Book is finished, Christ’s work is completed. We are now all individuals and have our own responsibility. We are called and chosen. How many are too busy when they are called. I think in this age, and Mary the mother of Jesus is in this age, all are equal before God. Mary accepted her calling. Her reward is in heaven, not here on earth. Her reward is not having her name magnified on earth beside Jesus’s name. All authority is in His name, except for times and seasons. Certainly Mary the mother of Jesus is blessed.
walk in love
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
Hi Lisa,
Yes I am sure Christ heard her crying, felt her anguish, was burdended by her suffering on top of His own and heard her prayers until she died.
Mary the mother of Jesus is a blessed woman and mother.
walk in love
edwinG
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Do you think Jesus loves His mom,Edwin?
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Edwin you said this-What is not true. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt lead you. Are you telling me that Mary doesnt heal and give you signs and miracles. Dozens of posts attest to the “grace from mary”
walk in love
edwinG
Mary says in scripture do whatever HE tells you(He is Jesus).She prays for us to Jesus like you would pray for us BUT you are not Blessed nor Jesus’ mom.She is the perfect role model a creature who said YES to God and perfectly submitted to Gods will,she is full of grace that God gave her.My point is God exalts her.Mary can INTERCEDE with God for Healings and signs if God permits it.The argument you are trying to use would make the acts of the apostles null and void.:nope:
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Hi Lisa,
Christ and the Holy Spirit are our intercessors.
Hebrews 8:21 ( for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him " The Lord has sworn, And will not relent, You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek"
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant
23 Also there were many priests , because they were prevented by death from continuing
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
8:4 For if He were on earth , He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law.

and the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses . For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Dear Lisa,
Mary’s blessed work which she accepted, was the joyous and painful work of being Christ’s mother. Full stop. God gave Christ and the Holy Spirit the heavenly work of intercession and to us the intercession amongst ourselves as acts of love to one another.
Cant you understand Lisa that it is God alone, not God and Mary.
Christ is the healer, only Christ, and it is His name which has all authority. You are not promoting Mary the mother of Jesus, when you sing mary’s praises but some evil spirit as Mary is humble and obedient to God.
Note Christ is able to save to the uttermost. There is no mention of mary.
The acts of the apostles are the acts of the Holy Spirit not mary.
walk in love Lisa
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
Hi Lisa,
Christ and the Holy Spirit are our intercessors.
Hebrews 8:21 ( for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him " The Lord has sworn, And will not relent, You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek"
22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant
23 Also there were many priests , because they were prevented by death from continuing
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
8:4 For if He were on earth , He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law.

and the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses . For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Dear Lisa,
Mary’s blessed work which she accepted, was the joyous and painful work of being Christ’s mother. Full stop. God gave Christ and the Holy Spirit the heavenly work of intercession and to us the intercession amongst ourselves as acts of love to one another.
Cant you understand Lisa that it is God alone, not God and Mary.
Christ is the healer, only Christ, and it is His name which has all authority. You are not promoting Mary the mother of Jesus, when you sing mary’s praises but some evil spirit as Mary is humble and obedient to God.
Note Christ is able to save to the uttermost. There is no mention of mary.
The acts of the apostles are the acts of the Holy Spirit not mary.
walk in love Lisa
edwinG
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Edwin you heard NOTHING I have said:eek: By your own example if we pray for each other it is meaningless.Does it scandalize you that Jesus worked signs and miracles through the apostles?
 
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edwinG:
You are not promoting Mary the mother of Jesus, when you sing mary’s praises but some evil spirit as Mary is humble and obedient to God.
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Wow! How many times do we have to say it. When we honor the blessed mother, we are singing praise to, and glorifying her son, Jesus. Let the scales fall from your eyes!
 
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edwinG:
,
The problem with Roman Catholics is that they don’t love Mary enough. If you really loved Mary do you think she would want a part of her Son’s glory, given by God because God wants to honor His Holy Name Jesus Christ.
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This seems like a little bit of sophistry to me. Of course God wants to honour Jesus. But God also wants us to honour (but not worship) Mary. Scripture tells us that all generations will call her blessed.

Mary is also twice called Blessed (GR: exalted) among women in scripture by those under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Praise and honour of Mary are part of God’s will.
Christ paid with suffering of soul to the point of death and physical suffering of pain unto death and in His obedience to His Fathers will, His father has forever honored His Holy name.
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Who would deny this?

But what you and most Protestants forget is that Mary too had a key role in salvation history. While protestants are happy to let Adam **and ** Eve take the blame for the fall. They are unwilling to give Mary **any ** credit at all for her part in the facilitation of the redemption. The woman (Eve) disbelieved and disobeyed God and led the man to sin. The woman (Mary) believed and obeyed God and enabled the redeeming man to come and enable our salvation.

This is why we see Mary at the conception of Jesus and at the cross, and we are told “a sword will pierece her own heart also.”
And Catholics downgrade Mary by saying she is the type of person who would cash in on her Son’s glory by the promotion of her name.
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That’s so silly! Is Paul “cashing in” on Jesus when so many preachers extol his words? Did peter and Paul pay Luke to write up their stories in Acts? And that Moses fellow. What a self-publicist!
I love Mary the mother of Jesus, the humble lady who was **always in the background. **
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Well. She’s pretty much close to the foreground at the Annunciation, birth of Jesus, Cana… The crucifixion… Unfortunately some Protestants want to dismiss her altogether, and never speak of her or acknowledge her as their Mother in Christ.
You have a Mary who is constantly doing signs and wonders, healing and leading, forever pushing forward, who has her name linked with worship, see the post above…
I pray that you recognise that the mary who does signs and miracles in your midst is not the mother of Christ. No true loving mother would bulldoze her honored Son and allow her name to be promoted.
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What ae you saying here? Are you saying that the Mary who appears with healings and messages to the world to turn from sin, to repent and pray and follow Jesus, is not of God???

If so, you deny the gospels which say that no-one can do this without the Holy Spirit. Peter, Paul. Moses Elijah, “pushed forward” and did many signs and wonders. Presumably they too were “bulldozing” God aside? What nonsense! You are letting your man-made antipathy to Mary blind you to God’s message.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
http://www.preghiereagesuemaria.it/immaginisacre/la_naca_2004.jpgMary suffered when she watched her Son our Lord being crucified:crying: Do you not think Our Lord would hear her prayers?
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Oi. This devotional extravaganza was exactly the sort of thing that prompted Newman to make a distinction between “devotion” and “doctrine” when it comes to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Now, I’m a Convert, so count my testimony as worthless, but THIS thing is, to my mind, utterly grotesque. Whatever the lofty message it is trying to project (and you can see that the message is perfectly orthodox), gets swamped by the bathos.

In his Apologia pro Vita Sua, Newman writes:

“. . . such passages as are found in the works of Italian Authors were not acceptable to every part of the Catholic world. Such devotional manifestations in honour of Our Lady had been my great crux as regards Catholicism; I say frankly, I do not fully enter into them now; I trust I do not love her the less, because I cannot enter into them. They may be fully explained and defended, but sentiment and taste do not run with logic; they are suitable for Italy, but they are not suitable for England.”
 
In the OT and NT God sent angels to appear to people.

I don’t hear people say “those darn angels are sneaking out of heaven without God looking and trying to steal his thunder! They’re trying to cash in on his glory!”

When Jesus was transfigured, Moses and Elijah appeared beside him.
Do we hear people say “Can you believe Moses and Elijah would promote themselves by placing themselves next to Jesus during his moment of glory?”

Today we see many christians from all denominations claim they have been “touched” by an angel.
It seems to always be a good thing…I don’t hear anyone say “what was that angel DOING? Was that angel a self promoter?”

And then there is Mary…oh boy.
No way would God EVER have a reason to send Mary for any work He may have.
Just because He has sent others at other times does NOT mean He would EVER send Mary.
No, no,no …if Mary is “appearing” it means she MUST be a self promoting glory thief!​

Y’know? When I see this type of attitude I see 2 things.
First I see chauvenism.

Second…I see God being put in a box. I see so called “christians” claiming they fully understand God’s plan and the tactics He uses.
They restrict the possiblities to only those they choose to accept - and if God steps out of that self imposed box they rebel.
 
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