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snarflemike
Guest
Those are always the people I am thinking about when I’m posting in any forum.
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RobertAdams
Guest
The average parishioner would likely be called a “Cafeteria Catholic” by some on CAF. However, average parishes are not places where people call each other names like that, or worry about who’s Catholic enough. If you went to Mass every Sunday for the rest of your life, and stayed to chat afterwards it’s likely you would never hear anything about many of the “hot topics” here.
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Dan123
Guest
Sure but it feels like you might also get a skewed opinion on what Catholicism is as well. Many of the more ‘strict’ Catholics I know in real life usually are okay with things like birth control, one had a child through IVF as a single mother, and many other opinions that the CAF folks would, as was said, label ‘not real Catholics’. The issue comes in that the CAF folks aren’t necessarily wrong, these are the official teachings of the church, so then just because actual “offline” Mass may be a little more ‘Catholic-lite’, isn’t that in some ways just sugarcoating it and kind of overlooking the details?
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Freddy
Guest
If I may…
It’s been suggested on times that there’s an underlying need to believe in my case. That I just won’t admit it. Even to myself. Which elicits a wry smile mostly. I crossed the Rubicon decades ago and nothing I have heard, read or listened to since then has caused me to even contemplate that I may be wrong. And I do my best to listen to both sides - my virtual Kindle library and my gathering-dust-on-the-shelves bricks and mortar libraries are probably running 80/20 as regards secular v faith.
But everything takes me further away from my time in the Church of England of my childhood: https://parish.churchinwales.org.uk/s462/history-en/st-michaels-manselton/
And I enjoy the discourse. I enjoy a touch of verbal cut and thrust. I enjoy it when someone comes up with a good counter argument and I have to ponder it for a while and perhaps do some searching for more information to see if I am actually right or whether my views need to be adjusted slightly (I’m bound to be wrong about something eventually).
There’s nothing I like better than to prop a bar or have a coffee with some friends and argue about…politics or sport or life, or the universe and everything (I prefer the former - bar v coffee that is). So I’m typing this over my morning coffee and I’ll probably log on again tonight and do the same with a glass of something amber with a chunk of ice in it.
And if nothing else, my time here has made me more tolerant towards other views. Which is what life is about really. Exposing yourself to other ideas and other points of view and accepting that other people hold them honestly.
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Freddy
Guest
And if you’ve opened the link to my old church then you can see the choir stalls. My mother used to play the organ on times, my father was second tenor in the middle row (bass at the back, choir boys in the front) and I don’t know how you might imagine Freddy as he’s typing this, but imagine a curly headed 12 year old in a cassock and surplice with ruffles, angelically singing ‘Oh come, oh come Emmanuel’ in a sweet soprano voice. Head choirboy doncha know!
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Dan123
Guest
And of course the non-believers who aren’t here are closed-minded and not even willing to listen to the other side
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
People in real life and people on the internet act differently.
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Pattylt
Guest
I can confirm a little regarding Catholics at a Mass vs. Catholics on a Catholic forum being different. I’ve gone to couple of Masses in my city. I listened in on discussions folk had afterwards and I worked for years with a couple of Catholics who were regular Mass going Catholics. On some issues they agree with the Church and on several issues they don’t…but they love being Catholic and certainly feel they are Catholic.
On this forum, one of the rules is that one must give the Catholic answer…if the Church has an answer. When someone has given an opinion that deviates from the Church view they were often flagged into silence. I think there are more Catholics on here that do have views that deviate from the Church but they’ve learned to give the Church answer and not their own for forum survival reasons.
To me, that’s a pity as I’d love to hear the dissenting views and why they hold them but I understand why that those who hold them are too reluctant.
On this forum, one of the rules is that one must give the Catholic answer…if the Church has an answer. When someone has given an opinion that deviates from the Church view they were often flagged into silence. I think there are more Catholics on here that do have views that deviate from the Church but they’ve learned to give the Church answer and not their own for forum survival reasons.
To me, that’s a pity as I’d love to hear the dissenting views and why they hold them but I understand why that those who hold them are too reluctant.
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Freddy
Guest
I never did statistics, so I don’t know how to work out the answer to this. But if 70% of a group think contraception is ok. And 50% think ssm marriage is ok. And 50% think that sex outside marriage is ok. And 50% think abortion is ok under certain circumstances. Then what is the percentage of people who think at least one of those things?
The number of Catholics holding to every single one of the church’s teaching must be quite small.
The number of Catholics holding to every single one of the church’s teaching must be quite small.
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StudentMI
Guest
I can confirm that. I had a post removed entirely just for recounting what the majority of scholars believe about certain Biblical issues because I was ‘calling into question Divine Revelation.’
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Those are almost always a package deal.
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snarflemike
Guest
Well, if all the probabilities were independent, you’re looking at 7.5%, but they’re not independent, they are highly dependent or overlapping, just like many political beliefs.
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Freddy
Guest
Which would lower the total as compared to a random selection. But I’m not sure how it could be done.Freddy:
Those are almost always a package deal.
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Cantankersaurus
Guest
When people change major beliefs, IMO they tend to do it silently, over time. And, they prefer to think through new ideas as their own, even if 1,000,000 people have previously been in the same place.
People who are ready to debate religion on a public forum and people who are open to changing what they believe about religion and why are almost mutually exclusive. It’s a catch 22. Again just IMO.
People who are ready to debate religion on a public forum and people who are open to changing what they believe about religion and why are almost mutually exclusive. It’s a catch 22. Again just IMO.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
This forum, with its “Catholic” branding and its stated mission of promoting Catholic apologetics and giving correct Catholic teaching to random people who showed up with a question, wasn’t really set up as a place for individual Catholics to share their possibly dissenting views with the world.
One problem with this forum, and one reason why it’s going down in flames, is that the people who came here had all kinds of different ideas about what this forum was for and what should be okay/ not okay to post here. In the end it was trying to be all things to all men and satisfying very few people.
I’d note that if you just want to read stuff from Catholics who have dissenting views with the hierarchy, you could go on a very liberal forum (like the America magazine page) or a very conservative forum (like one of the SSPX/ sedevacantist forums) and read that all day long.
Edited to add, another reason for potential “reluctance” is that if a religious person knows he has some audience that is looking to play “Gotcha”, whether it’s unbelievers looking to draw negative conclusions about Catholicism, or fellow religious people seeking to “admonish”, then most prudent religious people are not going to say anything publicly. Religious belief struggles are often deeply personal and difficult, like marital struggles. Many people are reluctant to share them with folks who will use the info to jump to some conclusion about them, the spouse, or the marriage.
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Kaninchen
Guest
I’m not an atheist but one result of over two decades of discussing Christianity online has been that I’ve got much better thought out reasons for not being a Christian.
po18guy
Well-known member
The Lord knows that it is best that we do not see the fruits of any efforts which we make. As Saint Paul wrote, we risk being puffed up. We must labor for reward in the next life, and the courage and strength to bear our suffering in this life.
What is ours for the asking is the grace to accomplish that which God desires that we do. Even if we saw hundreds of conversions and reversions here, what about those souls unseen and unheard, who read and ponder in silence? Have our words drawn them or repelled them?
The end of this year and the end of CAF leads some to wax nostalgic. What is eminently clear is that the best of us relies solely on God’s mercy.
What is ours for the asking is the grace to accomplish that which God desires that we do. Even if we saw hundreds of conversions and reversions here, what about those souls unseen and unheard, who read and ponder in silence? Have our words drawn them or repelled them?
The end of this year and the end of CAF leads some to wax nostalgic. What is eminently clear is that the best of us relies solely on God’s mercy.
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Elf01
Guest
As far as I’m concerned they are wounding the Church deeply.
Is my evidence. People not willing to accept and live by Catholic teaching should leave the Church and find one that agrees with them - and publuc dissenters should be excommunicated.
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Salibi
Guest
No…that’s not what he said. He said, and I quote, that the average Catholic “has other things going on”, which is perfectly normal, healthy, and acceptable. People aren’t one-dimensional. They have facets and aspects of themselves other than being Catholics…they are lawyers, college students, parents, wives, husbands, lumberjacks, sinners, etc… They have hobbies and interests that they are at perfect liberty to pursue without it detracting from how good of a Catholic they are.
In fact, I would say (with all due respect) that making one’s life solely about Catholicism is not only uncalled for, but unhealthy for the majority of people. I and everyone else have other things going on in our lives than just practicing and being Catholics. Catholicism informs the way good Catholics live their lives, but no, having hobbies and lives outside the Church and that have nothing to do with it is not “cafeteria Catholicism”. It’s being a healthy, well-rounded human being.
God bless.
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Thrstypirate
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Can I just take a moment to thank some of the Atheist regulars (such as Freddy, Patti, FiveLinden, more) for always being so respectful, bringing your insight, kindness, and friendship to a forum dedicated to something you don’t belive in. If I don’t see you around in any other locations on the world wide web, it has been a pleasure seeing your posts over the last couple years.
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