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tonyrey
Guest
He fixed the defects but it is up to us to play our part. If we do nothing we deserve nothing. It is as simple as that… To expect to have everything for nothing is absurd.
Did God commit a sin of omission by creating people with free will knowing they would bring evil to the world?
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C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
By definition a sin is in opposition to the will of God.
Therefore God’s will in any respect cannot be a sin.
G
goout
Guest
Assertions are usually based on false assumptions.
I don’t know if anyone has addressed this:
I’m not sure you can assign an intention to God. That is an assumption of a human trait. God does not have intentions in that way.
God creates out of love because that is part of his nature or essence or way of being. Creative love is simply who God is. God is being itself. And God is love. Love creates. That’s it.
**Without freedom there is no love. ** The freedom of love is risky. (If you doubt this look at the crucifix).
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BobCatholic
Guest
As I said, it is ridiculously easy to go to hell, but horrifically difficult to go to heaven. The scales are out of balance.
If we had a true choice, both choices would be equally in difficulty or easiness.
Precisely.
God made us imperfect and we fail.
He needs to stop punishing and start fixing the bugs instead. This is his responsibility.
This is like the bad employee who purposely sabotages the computer systems of his employers so he will always have a job fixing the computer systems. This statement imputes evil on God which is unacceptable.
In addition the belief that God requires us to be imperfect because there would be no need for him also is contradictory. An imperfect person can believe they don’t need God and thus will avoid God. A perfect person realizes that they’re perfect only because of the grace of God - and thus need God more.
Then God must create us perfect so we can love perfectly and finally make him happy. Otherwise, all he is doing is setting us up for failure. ESPECIALLY since he demands us to be perfect before entering heaven!!!
Imperfections limit or eliminate our freedom.
V
Vico
Guest
Here man is Adam and Eve.
-God created man with free will.
-Rejection of God is sinful.
-Since man has free will, man can be responsible for his sin.
-God gave man sufficient grace to avoid rejecting Him.
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tonyrey
Guest
- Your negativity is totally unjustified.
- God creates us because He wants us to share the precious gift of existence.
- He gives us **freedom **without which we would be incapable of love.
- He does everything possible to enable us to share life with Him in heaven.
- It depends entirely on us whether we respond to His grace.
- Jesus died so that we are** liberated** from evil.
- If we do our best to love Him and others we have nothing to fear.
- God punishes no one.
- We punish ourselves when we choose to love ourselves more than others.
- Hell is not a trap but self-inflicted isolation.
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goout
Guest
Let’s not avoid the glaring:
This is simply an abdication of responsibility. You want God to do his part plus yours.
Love the title of JP2’s book:
**“Love and Responsibility” **
The two are not separate.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Based on what standard? My experience is very persuasive.
And he creates us imperfect so that freedom is reduced or eliminated.
Except for letting us in the Garden of Eden.
ANd we are the weakest link.
We are imperfect. We fall. And God depends on US?
I most definitely am the weakest link, I am a pathetic speck of dust.
Except temporal. He held back.
So what time is the next flight to the Garden of Eden?
There is none. So we are held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors.
Buggy software crashes and sin results.
The Great Programmer, instead of fixing the bugs in the software, decides to throw out the computer (outside of the Garden).
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BobCatholic
Guest
So God is not responsible, in any way shape or form, for creating us imperfect.
The Great Programmer is not responsible for writing buggy code.
God is not responsible for anything period.
If the two (love and responsibility) are separate when it comes to God, why is it not separate when it comes to us? Seems like a glaring double standard.
Imperfections reduce or eliminate our free will and our freedom.
But wait, this is not bad enough.
God then says “You must be PERFECT before I let you in heaven!”
So, God creates us imperfect, then demands the impossible on top of that!
T
tonyrey
Guest
As you seem to reject the belief that God is Love and think Jesus made a mistake in choosing to suffer and die for us there is no point in continuing our dialogue…
J
jackydarapper
Guest
Did God create evil?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
The young man’s name — Albert Einstein.
I’d say, He created us perfect, but we fall, we reject Him through our action, He didn’t create robots, but us in His image and likeness.
Think about Angels, their spiritual nature is closest to the image of God, and thus they have great power and intellect and free will. Read more about Angel’s from here saintaquinas.com/angels.html and ewtn.com/library/MARY/angel2.htm . Didn’t they still fall due to their pride? Did God create angels with imperfection? absolutely no! So does the man, God gave us free will, which we, starting from Adam and Eve used to fall by disobeying Him. From Light to darkness! Think for a while my friend, are you accusing or attempting to accuse God for human’s fallen nature? Didn’t God, knowing that we rejected/reject Him still made a covenant with us and wants everyone to get back to Him? Didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? Instead of wrongly assuming/questioning did God commit a sin of omission, you will get better answers if you start searching, why did Jesus die on the cross. Imperfection is absence of perfection. whom can you call imperfect? a baby, child, teenager or an adult? When we are born, are we perfect or in imperfect state?
Good can exist without evil, whereas evil cannot exist without good - St.Thomas Aquinas
"And therefore the Philosopher [Aristotle] says in Metaphysics VI that good and evil, which are objects of the will, are in things, but truth and error, which are objects of the intellect, are in the mind. - St. Thomas Aquinas
:harp:
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
The young man’s name — Albert Einstein.
I’d say, He created us perfect, but we fall, we reject Him through our action, He didn’t create robots, but us in His image and likeness.
Think about Angels, their spiritual nature is closest to the image of God, and thus they have great power and intellect and free will. Read more about Angel’s from here saintaquinas.com/angels.html and ewtn.com/library/MARY/angel2.htm . Didn’t they still fall due to their pride? Did God create angels with imperfection? absolutely no! So does the man, God gave us free will, which we, starting from Adam and Eve used to fall by disobeying Him. From Light to darkness! Think for a while my friend, are you accusing or attempting to accuse God for human’s fallen nature? Didn’t God, knowing that we rejected/reject Him still made a covenant with us and wants everyone to get back to Him? Didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? Instead of wrongly assuming/questioning did God commit a sin of omission, you will get better answers if you start searching, why did Jesus die on the cross. Imperfection is absence of perfection. whom can you call imperfect? a baby, child, teenager or an adult? When we are born, are we perfect or in imperfect state?
Good can exist without evil, whereas evil cannot exist without good - St.Thomas Aquinas
"And therefore the Philosopher [Aristotle] says in Metaphysics VI that good and evil, which are objects of the will, are in things, but truth and error, which are objects of the intellect, are in the mind. - St. Thomas Aquinas
:harp:
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NM505StKate
Guest
I have seen that story passed around. If anything Mr. Einstein was a deist but I believe that story was proven false. Let me check…nope, it didn’t happen.Did God create evil?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
The young man’s name — Albert Einstein.
I’d say, He created us perfect, but we fall, we reject Him through our action, He didn’t create robots, but us in His image and likeness.
Think about Angels, their spiritual nature is closest to the image of God, and thus they have great power and intellect and free will. Read more about Angel’s from here saintaquinas.com/angels.html and ewtn.com/library/MARY/angel2.htm . Didn’t they still fall due to their pride? Did God create angels with imperfection? absolutely no! So does the man, God gave us free will, which we, starting from Adam and Eve used to fall by disobeying Him. From Light to darkness! Think for a while my friend, are you accusing or attempting to accuse God for human’s fallen nature? Didn’t God, knowing that we rejected/reject Him still made a covenant with us and wants everyone to get back to Him? Didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? Instead of wrongly assuming/questioning did God commit a sin of omission, you will get better answers if you start searching, why did Jesus die on the cross. Imperfection is absence of perfection. whom can you call imperfect? a baby, child, teenager or an adult? When we are born, are we perfect or in imperfect state?
Good can exist without evil, whereas evil cannot exist without good - St.Thomas Aquinas
"And therefore the Philosopher [Aristotle] says in Metaphysics VI that good and evil, which are objects of the will, are in things, but truth and error, which are objects of the intellect, are in the mind. - St. Thomas Aquinas
truthorfiction.com/einstein-god/
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goout
Guest
A child of 8 could have said it, and it still crushes the ignorance of the professor.
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BobCatholic
Guest
If God created us perfect, it would be just as easy to go to heaven as it is to go to hell. The scales would be balanced.
But the scales are not balanced. It is ridiculously easy to go to hell, it is our default status.The road to perdition is wide and many find it. To go to heaven, one must endure horrific suffering and it is a narrow road and few find it.
The problem for me is not the problem of evil. I understand that.
What I don’t understand is the problem if good. Where God gives people more good than others.
I go to healing services and people get healed. I witness the power of God acting, and there is no doubt God is doing good. But then he refuses to heal my son. He passes me by and there is no explanation.
People are able to keep jobs for decades and I can’t keep a job to save my life, despite asking for help from God and making sure I get the training and skillset. God passes me by.
Angels were created perfect. We are not.
I never said God is not love. And I never said that Jesus made a mistake in choosing to suffer. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Putting words in my mouth is not charitable.
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NM505StKate
Guest
Actually no. The whole situation is made up. Pretty much a straw man
B
BobCatholic
Guest
Agreed, the story is beautiful and tells the truth, even if it did not happen that Einstein said ths.
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NM505StKate
Guest
No, it is a straw man argument.
G
goout
Guest
That’s not what a straw man is.
google.com/search?q=straw+mam+definition&oq=straw+mam+definition&aqs=chrome…69i57j0l5.4952j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
The proposition and argument represented in the scenario happens all the time. So it represents a real conversation even if Einstein didn’t literally say it.
Some call this type of thing a “parable”.
And the end point is, the logic used by the professor is bankrupt.
R
rinnie
Guest
Again we are not held responsible, when we are baptised we are wiped clean of original sin, we are not held responsible. If we are baptised and free from mortal sin we can now enter heaven.
F
fbl9
Guest
If we who are baptized and wiped clean of original sin why do still suffer with the flesh that wills to sin? Should not have our flesh/nature been cleansed as well as our soul?
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