Did I steal?

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ToTheHeights said:
With regard to what? The monetary value of the property destroyed? The degree of the blasphemy called into question? The legality of the action? The outcome of the action?

I brought that up because someone said that Jesus would never destroy property.

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And yes, I think itā€™s safe to say that flipping over a table and destroying merchandise is closer to throwing away a leaflet than it is to destroying an entire religious building.
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Iā€™m assuming that ā€œsomeoneā€ is myself, and what I actually said was:
JSSD said:
I guess I missed the part where Jesus destroyed the materials of other religions, suggested his followers do the same, all in the name of absolute truth.
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Which I think youā€™ve twisted quite a bit and this part has become reductio ad absurdum. I really donā€™t think you can use that story to justify destroying the literature of another religion. I also donā€™t think my having such an opinion is moral relativism.

You do and thatā€™s fine. It is scary to me, but that is your right to hold such a view. šŸ‘
 
JSSD said:
Extrapolating to the extreme is several folks suggesting you shouldnā€™t destroy another personā€™s religious materials, and you countering that not advocating that behavior is moral relativism.

Extrapolating to the extreme is my suggesting that this behavior is something Jesus wouldnā€™t condone, and you suggesting that Iā€™m saying, ā€œeverything is right, nothing is wrong.ā€ Iā€™m not saying that. Sorry.
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Iā€™m telling you of the erroneous philosophy which is the basis for your specific suggestions.

For example, you said: ā€œI have faith and believe that Catholicism is correct, but I cannot know beyond a shadow of doubt that perhaps some other way (Islam, JW, or whatever) is incorrect. As such, I wouldnā€™t have touched the literature myself other than my own mailbox.ā€

So if you did know beyond a shadow of a doubt, then you would have ā€œtouched the literatureā€? The underlying philosophy here is relativism. That is not at all a stretch. By your own admission you arenā€™t 100% invested in any single belief, and thus choose inaction.
 
ToTheHeights said:
Thanks. Say what you will about such people, but I respect them more than passionless, luke warm individuals. I even respect muslims more than they. At least the ā€œradical fundamentalist sectsā€ and muslims value what God asks of them (or what they erroneously think God asks of them) over their own selfish comforts.
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It has nothing to do with ā€œcomfortsā€ or being lukewarm.
It has to do with respecting other people.
 
MacQ said:
It has nothing to do with ā€œcomfortsā€ or being lukewarm.
It has to do with respecting other people.
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By letting them ruin their souls and the souls of other people?
 
ToTheHeights said:
Iā€™m telling you of the erroneous philosophy which is the basis for your specific suggestions.

For example, you said: ā€œI have faith and believe that Catholicism is correct, but I cannot know beyond a shadow of doubt that perhaps some other way (Islam, JW, or whatever) is incorrect. As such, I wouldnā€™t have touched the literature myself other than my own mailbox.ā€

So if you did know beyond a shadow of a doubt, then you would have ā€œtouched the literatureā€? The underlying philosophy here is relativism. That is not at all a stretch. By your own admission you arenā€™t 100% invested in any single belief, and thus choose inaction.
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:confused::confused::confused:
No. What could possibly give you such an impression that I would ā€œtouch the literatureā€ at that point? :confused: What could possibly give you the impression Iā€™m not 100% invested in any belief? That I donā€™t destroy something not mine?

(And seriously, what is with the relativism? :confused: )

Under no circumstances do I condone stealing or destroying someone elseā€™s leaflets or literature regardless of what they may say or whether I disagree with them. It really is that simple.
 
MacQ said:
It has nothing to do with ā€œcomfortsā€ or being lukewarm.
It has to do with respecting other people.
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Dude, didnā€™t you know God gave us free-will so that we could forcibly impose His absolute truths upon others?

/sarcasm. šŸ˜‰
 
JSSD said:
:confused::confused::confused:
No. What could possibly give you such an impression that I would ā€œtouch the literatureā€ at that point? :confused: What could possibly give you the impression Iā€™m not 100% invested in any belief? That I donā€™t destroy something not mine?

(And seriously, what is with the relativism? :confused: )

Under no circumstances do I condone stealing or destroying someone elseā€™s leaflets or literature regardless of what they may say or whether I disagree with them. It really is that simple.
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Look at your quote. That is what Iā€™m going off of. What you wrote.
 
JSSD said:
Dude, didnā€™t you know God gave us free-will so that we could forcibly impose His absolute truths upon others?

/sarcasm. šŸ˜‰
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We were instructed to preach to all nations. Not sit back and watch other religions do so without the slightest resistance.

Teaching the Truth and stopping the spread of lies is not ā€œimposingā€ anything upon anyone.
 
Leave peopleā€™s mail alone. If you want to discuss the merits of the literature, knock on the door and bring a bread basket.
 
And it also isnā€™t yours. $0.02

It was clearly meant for specific individuals or households, otherwise why did the OP have to go around and collect it from specific mailboxes? It wasnā€™t right for the JW to leave it there as such, but that doesnā€™t justify the next action.
 
ToTheHeights said:
Oh Bill, it would benefit you to read Aristotle on friendship.

You may not realize it, but you are a moral relativist. There is only one Truth. And it is not only worth fighting for, but the only thing worth fighting for. Itā€™s unfortunate that you donā€™t hold your beliefs in higher esteem, but would rather allow souls to perish than face conflict.

War is evil (if not a crusade). But it is not the greatest evil.
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That dog wonā€™t hunt, as we say here in Georgia.

You seem confused about the definition of moral relativism. At no point did I object to your assertions about the Truth of Catholicism or the Error of JW. I do not believe the two are in any way equally valid. As you correctly point out, the Catholic Church holds the truth. Period.

This is simply a conversation whether we as Catholics are required to respect the freedom of others to hold their own religious beliefs not matter how erroneous those beliefs might be. The answer to that question is yes, we must respect the rights of others to hold their religious beliefs no matter how false they are. The Church herself teaches us that. Here is a specific, explicit example.
This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limitsā€¦
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ā€¦Truth, however, is to be sought after in a manner proper to the dignity of the human person and his social nature. The inquiry is to be free, carried on with the aid of teaching or instruction, communication and dialogue, in the course of which men explain to one another the truth they have discovered, or think they have discovered, in order thus to assist one another in the quest for truth.
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vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html

If you want to dispute what the JW are teaching then dispute it. dialog with the neighbors freely about the merits of JW (or lack thereof), donā€™t throw their materials away without them knowing about it.

Doing is not only disrespectful and rude, but it is also theft.
 
ToTheHeights said:
Funny, I recall Jesus flipping over tables in the temple. I think itā€™s safe to assume some property was destroyed there.
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Not everything that Jesus was pleased to do in his wisdom is something we imperfect humans, lacking his omniscience, should do on our own authority.
 
I learn something new every day!

Iā€™m really curious what your answer to this question would be with the other hat on, though. šŸ˜‰
 
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