Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeg101
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have just come to realise the different variations (mainly two) of what Revelations 1:6 says. Does anyone know if there is any certainty to the one of the following translations, as they have different meanings:

KJV 6 and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

ESV 6 and made us(R) a kingdom,(S) priests to(T) his God and Father, to him be(U) glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

NIV 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

www.biblegateway.com

D-R 6 And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

www.drbo.org

As you can see the meaning of this verse is different. (I would really hope the KJB and DR interpretations are correct, but I am not sure if the translators were biased in their translating. I think most modern versions would read “…his God and Father”, but of course I’m no bible expert.
 
De_Maria said:
Quite a bit of sense. Lets break down the response:

In other words, why are you questioning that Jesus is God. Now I assume that the originator of this thread is Muslim. If we compare Jesus of the Quran to Jesus of the Bible, we see that:

Jesus is sinless in both.
Jesus is the Messiah in both.
Jesus is acknowledged for His miracles in both.
Jesus has no human father in both.

I’m not sure if it is written in the Quran, but I know that Jesus returns on the last day in the Quran.
Of course, Jesus is our Judge on the Last Day in the Bible.

There is no other human being in the Quran or the Bible with this combination of attributes. So, it would seem reasonable taht Muslims would at least suspect that Jesus is God.

This is true. The Jews killed Jesus because they claimed He blasphemed. Any man who claims to be God blasphemes. Unless He really is God.

There is an old saying, “Actions speak louder than words.” Jesus came healing the sick, making the lame walk, curing the deaf, the blind and raising the dead, and calming the storm. Can any human do that?

This is true.

So this makes perfect sense.

Sincerely,

De Maria
Click to expand...
Who is the “SON OF MAN” refering to…?

Thanks
 
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Gee, the Jewish religious leaders seemed to understand that Jesus was claiming to be God.
 
MH84 said:
IOther signs that are left for us in Scripture alone about God are just about countless: but some more to add to those in previous posts:

John 1:1 - 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it…
…14** And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,** (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 8:56 - Jesus said: Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad. 57 The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am. 59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

If you recall in Exodus God revealed His “name” to Moses:
Exodus 3:14 - God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you. 15 And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me to you: This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Without much doubt Jesus called Himself, what God called Himself thousands of years earlier. The Douay Rheims bible says about Exodus 3:14: *14 “I am who am”… That is, I am being itself, eternal, self-existent, independent, infinite; without beginning, end, or change; and the source of all other beings. *
Before Jesus returned to glory He told the apostles:
Matthew 28:16 - And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And seeing them they adored: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. **19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. **20 **Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. **

Can anyone besides God really be able to be with us forever, even to the consummation of the world. Chrisitians aer also baptised in the name, not names, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. For the reader the message is that the 3 persons are one God.

Quotes from www.drbo.org
Click to expand...
I understand all you have said said but there is few things I can not understand, if our lord Jesus wants us to believe that he is God, then why would he say this in so many places in the bible…?
When speaking of the Day of Judgment, our lord Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32, and Matt. 24:36)

Does that mean his powers are not those of God? If he is the father are one then should not he known the answer…?

Also, while he performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…” (John 5:19)

Now, this gives me the biggest problem… “I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) How could possible God have an other God and why would lord jesus cray out on the cross "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46)
I would really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks
 
MH84 said:
I have just come to realise the different variations (mainly two) of what Revelations 1:6 says. Does anyone know if there is any certainty to the one of the following translations, as they have different meanings:

KJV 6 and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

ESV 6 and made us(R) a kingdom,(S) priests to(T) his God and Father, to him be(U) glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

NIV 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

www.biblegateway.com

D-R 6 And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

www.drbo.org

As you can see the meaning of this verse is different. (I would really hope the KJB and DR interpretations are correct, but I am not sure if the translators were biased in their translating. I think most modern versions would read “…his God and Father”, but of course I’m no bible expert.
Click to expand...
While scripture can be understood perfectly only in the original languages, and all scripture has some level of translation error, the KJV is well known to have thousands of translation errors. Thus, it is best used as a reference only.
 
AbeOman said:
I don’t want sound daft but how could he refer to himself as “Son of Man” and at these same time he is son of God…?
Please explain.
Thanks
Click to expand...
I can sense the real Muslim coming out of you now…🙂

Catholics understand Jesus to be both fully man and fully God. Jesus the Divine Person took flesh at the Incarnation and became man. “He dwelt among us”.
 
Also, Jesus can be both Son of Man and Son of God, just like you can be both son of your mother and son of your father at the same time.
 
#25 AbeOman said:
I understand all you have said said but there is few things I can not understand, if our lord Jesus wants us to believe that he is God, then why would he say this in so many places in the bible…?

When speaking of the Day of Judgment, our lord Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32, and Matt. 24:36)
Click to expand...
Only God knows the “end”.

God the Son does know the end, but it is only God the Father to tell of the end. It is not the son’s place to “set bounds”; that is the father’s place.

Also, since Jesus is speaking as a man, as He is fully man as well as fully God, His “man-ness” can’t communicate to His fellow “fully men but not fully God” listeners what is only God the Father’s to communicate.
Does that mean his powers are not those of God? If he is the father are one then should not he known the answer…?
Click to expand...
Jesus’ “powers” are what He displayed to us, and those which weren’t displayed to us but which He kept between Himself and non-man persons.

It is a mystery as to how God can be a Holy Trinity of persons. If you’re Christian you either accept that or you’re not a Christian.

What you’re asking for is a solution to a mystery, and mysteries have no solutions that would satisfy you.
Also, while he performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…” (John 5:19)
Click to expand...
God the Son can’t do anything by Himself because it’s impossible for one person of God to do anything when all the persons of God don’t participate.

All of God does all works of God. Where one person is, all persons are.
Now, this gives me the biggest problem… “I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) How could possible God have an other God and why would lord jesus cray out on the cross "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46)
Click to expand...
God the Son’s Father is God the Father.

God the Son has no God above Him.

Mat-27:46 is a reference to Ps-22:{1}, and He says it NOT as a question of why His Father has forsaken him, but to tell us that He is the “…good man, ill beset by enemies … proclaiming his deliverence by God”. (From the subtitle of Ps-22 from the Navarre Bible).

In other words, that He IS actually suffering as a man, since He is fully man, fully one of us, and that He WILL be delivered by God.
I would really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
AbeOman said:
I don’t want sound daft but how could he refer to himself as “Son of Man” and at these same time he is son of God…?
Please explain.
Thanks
Click to expand...
The book of Genesis says that God mad man “in His own image”. That means that God is in the “image” of man; and therefore He is a perfect, glorified Man. He is not a man like us—mortal, weak, imperfect, and sinful. Nevertheless He is Man; otherwise He could not create us “in His own image” as men. If we are made in “His image,” that means that His “image” is that of a Man. Hence His Son is also the “Son of Man”.

zerinus
 
Jn 1;1 - the Word was God
Jn 1:14-15 - glory of Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth
Jn 8:19 - if you knew me, you would know my Father
Jn 8:58-59 - I assure you, before Abraham was, I AM
Jn 10:30-33 - the Father and I are one (see Ex 3:14, 20:7; Lev 19:12, 24:14-16)
Jn 10:38 - the Father is in me and I am in the Father
Jn 12:45 - whosoever sees me sees the one who sent me
Jn 14:8-12 - whoever had seen has seen the Father
Jn 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas’s “my Lord and my God”
Col 2:9 - in him dwells whole fullness of deity bodily
Acts 20:28 - church of God he acquired with his blood
Eph 1:7 - in him we have redemption by his blood
1Jn 1:7 - blood of his Son Jesus cleanses from all sin
Tit 2;13 - glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
 
zerinus said:
The book of Genesis says that God mad man “in His own image”. That means that God is in the “image” of man; and therefore He is a perfect, glorified Man. He is not a man like us—mortal, weak, imperfect, and sinful. Nevertheless He is Man; otherwise He could not create us “in His own image” as men. If we are made in “His image,” that means that His “image” is that of a Man. Hence His Son is also the “Son of Man”.

zerinus
Click to expand...
My shaddow is in my image, but that doesn’t mean that it is the same manner of being I am. Image of God means personal attributes. God isn’t a “glorified man”, and doesn’t have “a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”.
 
ShortyLaRock_82 said:
My shaddow is in my image, but that doesn’t mean that it is the same manner of being I am. Image of God means personal attributes. God isn’t a “glorified man”, and doesn’t have “a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”.
Click to expand...
Firstly, welcome Shorty…! 🙂

Secondly, are you saying that Jesus, who is God the Son, isn’t fully God and Fully Man…?

Did Jesus have flesh and bone?
 
patg said:
Then there is John. John is recognized as a late development by a group bordering on gnosticism…
Click to expand...
Not by a single credible scholar it isn’t.

In John’s Gospel, when Thomas addresses Jesus as his Lord and God, Jesus accepts his worship. That anyone can read the Gospels and reach any conclusion other than Jesus is presented as divine is ludicrous.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
ShortyLaRock_82 said:
My shaddow is in my image, but that doesn’t mean that it is the same manner of being I am. Image of God means personal attributes. God isn’t a “glorified man”, and doesn’t have “a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”.
Click to expand...
Jesus IS God. One with the Father.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**1701 **"Christ, . . . in the very revelation of the mystery of the Father and of his love, makes man fully manifest to himself and brings to light his exalted vocation."2 It is in Christ, "the image of the invisible God,"3 that man has been created “in the image and likeness” of the Creator. It is in Christ, Redeemer and Savior, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty and ennobled by the grace of God.4
 
Keikiolu said:
Firstly, welcome Shorty…! 🙂

Secondly, are you saying that Jesus, who is God the Son, isn’t fully God and Fully Man…?

Did Jesus have flesh and bone?
Click to expand...
What I’m saying is that men are not the same manner of being God is just because he is made in the image of God. There is a context behind ‘image of God’ that Mormons (for example) don’t grasp.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top