Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[zerinus]

My shaddow is in my image, but that doesn’t mean that it is the same manner of being I am.

That is not a good analogy. Your shadow is not your “image”. Your image is something that looks just like you, in all the details. God did not make man in His “shadow”. He could have said that if that is what He meant. He made him in His own “image”—so much so that He chose to call him His son. Jesus is the perfect image of God. The Bible describes Him as the “express image of his [Father’s] person” (Hebrews 1:3). That means that He looks just like Him. And what does Jesus look like? Surprise surprise, He looks like us! In another please the scripture says: “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same;” (Hebrews 2:14). And again in John He says: “go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” (John 20:17). Since when did a “son” look any different from his “father;” or a “brother” different from his “brother”?

Image of God means personal attributes.

That is not what the Bible says. The Bible defines precisely what is meant by image: “And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth” (Genesis 5:3). Image means image; it is what everybody else understand by it.

God isn’t a “glorified man”, and doesn’t have “a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”.

That is your opinion. We declare that He is.

zerinus

 

[AbeOman]

I can sense the real Muslim coming out of you now…

Catholics understand Jesus to be both fully man and fully God. Jesus the Divine Person took flesh at the Incarnation and became man. “He dwelt among us”.

Thanks for making me laugh that is very nice of you, but to be a good muslim, I have to treat you with fairness, justice and respect and that goes for whatever you believe, religion or faith is not for me or any person but for God and the individual.

Now, why did not our lord Jesus say “Son of God” instead of “Son of man” he or god must have known that today someone like me who loves him so much would want know and understand him very clear terms.

What honestly want understand is the significance of the terms “Son of God” and “Son of Man” as used by Jesus? Did He use the former to stress His deity and the latter to stress His humanity, or is there something more to this?

Also, “Son of man” appears some 109 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament. but How many times “Son of God” appears?
Furthermore, “Son of man” appears some 109 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament.
I tried to understand this **Luke 5:16 “And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God.” **And you can see clearly that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God’s servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.
Also, in **Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.’ " ** Here in this verse you can see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creator of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!
Also, see Matthew 26:42 “Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.’” My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn’t will it by himself.
Furthermore, take at **Matthew 26:44 “So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word.” **You see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.
Now, what I want understand is, our lord Jesus never said clearly that I’m god and worship me, he never said clearly that I’m Son of God the almighty and I don’t mean in the biological sense of the word and we all know that God did not fathered Jesus biologically so as Millions and millions of Muslim now too. So how made him to be god almighty, the creator of this universe, of me and all of us on this forum.
My Priest friend tells me that Lord Jesus is both man and God, i.e. while he was on earth eating honey comb and broiled, but up in heaven he is GOD. Is that the case?
Or he is wrong…?

 

[ShortyLaRock_82]

That is not what the Bible says. The Bible defines precisely what is meant by image: “And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth” (Genesis 5:3). Image means image; it is what everybody else understand by it.

So, Seth was also Adam?

 

[zerinus]

So, Seth was also Adam?

No, he was in his image, which means that he looked just like him; just as we are made in the image of God, and therefore look just like Him (or He looks just like us).

zerinus

 

[inJESUS]

thank you.

I would very much objected to the thread if it was posted by a Muslim

actually the OP does not believe Jesus is God because he believes what the Quran says. However, his intention is to “prove” that Jesus is not God from the Bible, because Jesus did not utter these exact words.

To may limited knowledge of the bible and I stand to be corrected, I believe that Our Lord Jesus (PBUH) never said explicitly and directly , I’m God and worship me

correct.

Finally, just to make a small clarification on your point on Muhammad (PBUH) saying in the Quran that he is a prophet…

Well, first the Quran is not from Muhammad (PBUH), . So he could never make that claim but God almighty made it to all people.

Jesus in the Quran talked in the first person. He said I am a prophet. The same does not apply to Muhammad. (remember, i do not endorse this attitude toward the scriptures, but just for arguments sake).

You believe Quran is the literal word of God, we believe the gospels are the inspired word of God so when John, or Luke, or Peter say something about Jesus, we do not question their authority since their authority is given by Jesus. But this is another topic.

And…God in most clearest terms say so in many places in the Quran that Muhammad is the prophet and also Quran gives bounds and bounds of examples about other prophets and messengers by name and with full details.

you do not question what God said in the Quran because you believe what he said. Likewise, we do not question what the apostles say about Jesus because we believe in their authority.

The poster does not want what John or Matthew says, but what Jesus said. This can be provided, but it is a flawed argument because i , likewise, can tell you i don’t want what the Quran says, but what Muhammad says . If you believe what God speaks in the Quran, even if Muhammad did not utter it personally, likewise we believe what the disciples say even if Jesus did not utter it personally. In this case, Jesus uttered it a thousand time. But what if we apply this argument to the virgin birth? nowhere did Jesus ever say He is born to a virgin, it is the disciples who said so. So we reject what they said because it was not uttered by Jesus? obviously not and this shows the weakness of this argument.

 

[po18guy]

Also, Jesus can be both Son of Man and Son of God, just like you can be both son of your mother and son of your father at the same time.

Excellent analogy.

 

[po18guy]

The book of Genesis says that God mad man “in His own image”. That means that God is in the “image” of man; and therefore He is a perfect, glorified Man. He is not a man like us—mortal, weak, imperfect, and sinful. Nevertheless He is Man; otherwise He could not create us “in His own image” as men. If we are made in “His image,” that means that His “image” is that of a Man. Hence His Son is also the “Son of Man”.

zerinus

From now on, I will call you Sunirez, since you have it completely backward. So, God has warts, pimples and scars? COME ON! Please don’t confuse the mind of a seeker who has come here for advice. Refer him to your blog if you must, but, I mean really!

 

[RebeccaJ]

From now on, I will call you Sunirez, since you have it completely backward. So, God has warts, pimples and scars? COME ON! Please don’t confuse the mind of a seeker who has come here for advice. Refer him to your blog if you must, but, I mean really!

When I was first trying to understand the Trinity, and had this mormon idea of God stuck inside my brain, there was a Catholic who was very, very patiently trying to get me to understand. Once when I was getting it all backwards, he told me that I was looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

It is a mormon problem in general. What they have been taught God Is, is assbackwards in a lot of ways. It is hard to get the telescope turned around so that you are looking through the right end. Especially when the desire is to keep on looking through the wrong end.

 

[inJESUS]

I understand all you have said said but there is few things I can not understand, if our lord Jesus wants us to believe that he is God, then why would he say this in so many places in the bible…?

can you explain your question please?

When speaking of the Day of Judgment, our lord Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32, and Matt. 24:36)

 

[inJESUS]

Also, while he performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…” (John 5:19)

the Word belongs to the Father, it is not a seperate entity. What the Father does is what the Word does.

Now, this gives me the biggest problem… “I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) How could possible God have an other God

notice the difference Jesus made .Note that Jesus says, “my Father and your Father” and “my God and your God”, and not “our Father” and “our God.” This means that Jesus has a unique relationship with God the Father that is different from the relationship all people have with God the Father. In other words, it implies that Jesus is the Son of God the Father by nature (i.e. he is Divine), whereas all Jesus’ disciples are children of God only by adoption in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:3-14).

and why would lord jesus cray out on the cross "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46)

to prove His Messianic mission and victory. Jesus actually is quoting Psalm 22 that ends with victory. He is actually pointing out to the Psalm as a Messianic prophecy that He is fulfiling and which will end by the victory of His resurrection.

 

[AbeOman]

thank you.

, because Jesus did not utter these exact words.

correct.

Jesus in the Quran talked in the first person. He said I am a prophet. The same does not apply to Muhammad. (remember, i do not endorse this attitude toward the scriptures, but just for arguments sake).

Yes, but what does he say…? more than I’m prophet.

You believe Quran is the literal word of God, we believe the gospels are the inspired word of God so when John, or Luke, or Peter say something about Jesus, we do not question their authority since their authority is given by Jesus. But this is another topic.

Neither would i, but the problem lies not here, it’s with who wrote what John, Mark and Peter wrote about Jesus. how many hands after them and when was it writen.

you do not question what God said in the Quran because you believe what he said. Likewise, we do not question what the apostles say about Jesus because we believe in their authority.

The poster does not want what John or Matthew says, but what Jesus said. This can be provided, but it is a flawed argument because i , likewise, can tell you i don’t want what the Quran says, but what Muhammad says . If you believe what God speaks in the Quran, even if Muhammad did not utter it personally, likewise we believe what the disciples say even if Jesus did not utter it personally. In this case, Jesus uttered it a thousand time. But what if we apply this argument to the virgin birth? nowhere did Jesus ever say He is born to a virgin, it is the disciples who said so. So we reject what they said because it was not uttered by Jesus? obviously not and this shows the weakness of this argument.

Thanks for taking the time, I sincerely appreciate it.

Just inform you of something, the Quran was written down while the prophet was live and it was written by men who was around him and sitting with him. moreover, God pledges in the strongest terms to safeguard and protect the Quran, that is why 1428 years no one was able to come up with a similar or close Quran and believe me it’s not luck of trying.

The quran teaches us to accept Injil…this is the Gospel of our lord jesus, the Quran orders us to accept the teachings of John the Baptist Prophet Moses, David, and others (Peace and blessing of god be upon all of them) on the same token quran tells us that some of these books if not all have been subject to human interventions and furthermore, the Quran teaches us how to authenticate their content and cannons. it’s that simple.

To give you an example, if we are not even allow to make the images of say our lord jesus and his first family not even a picture and the same applies to all of the prophets and messengers, their families and even Engels.

So you see our situation is that we have to examine everything just as we do all the prophet Muhammad’s hadiths or anything attributed to and against what do we do that…well against the Quran.

One last point, I question and should question what Muhammad (PBUH) the man said and if matchs with the Quran it’s acceptable otherwise it’s not his so i throw it way to the garbage.

I hope my point is little bit more clearer.

 

[AbeOman]

can you explain your question please?

 

[robert_ambrose]

in the book of isaiah god said i am the first and the last in ch.41,44,48. then in rev.jesus said to john in chs. 1,2, 21, 22.exactly the same .so if jesus is not god where does that leave the bible

 

[inJESUS]

Now, why did not our lord Jesus say “Son of God” instead of “Son of man” he or god must have known that today someone like me who loves him so much would want know and understand him very clear terms.

 

[inJESUS]

in the book of isaiah god said i am the first and the last in ch.41,44,48. then in rev.jesus said to john in chs. 1,2, 21, 22.exactly the same .so if jesus is not god where does that leave the bible

Well if God says : i am the first and the last,

and Jesus says:

I am the first and the last

= Jesus is God

or

Jesus is intentionally blaspheming.:bigyikes:

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, but what does he say…? more than I’m prophet.

i think this is irrelevant. My point is that He talks in the first person. Muhammad did not say about himself what Jesus said.

In other words, the OP wants a sentence where Jesus Himself says I am God.

So am asking for one sentence in the Quran where Muhammad personally says " i am a prophet".

This is just to show that the argument is flawed.

Neither would i, but the problem lies not here, it’s with who wrote what John, Mark and Peter wrote about Jesus. how many hands after them and when was it writen.

this is a different topic and needs another thread, For the time being, we are presenting what the Bible says since the OP asked about the Bible. If you do not believe in it, it does not mean that the Bible does not say what it says, right?

One last point, I question and should question what Muhammad (PBUH) the man said and if matchs with the Quran it’s acceptable otherwise it’s not his so i throw it way to the garbage.

I hope my point is little bit more clearer.

yes i know all these i will not reply to them because we’ll be digressing from the subject. If you can you can discuss them on a different thread. So far, the OP is asking about what the Bible says, regardless of whther he believes or rejects it.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

in what language is that…?

That’s Hawai’ian (Olelo Hawai’i).

It means:

Mahalo (thanks) “be to” implied] ke Akua (the-singular God)…!

E pili (may stick/adhere) mau (always/constant[ly]) na pomaika’i (the-plural blessings [po=“heavenly”, maika’i=“good”] ia 'oe (to you-singular).

Aloha nui 'oe]. = Love great “to” you]. = Great love to you.

 

[AbeOman]

EB4304;2876145:

Short answer: yes.

QUOTE]

Jesus, Son of God.

The whole doctrine of the Trinity is summarized in the Athanasian creed. The creed itself is of late date, probably the first half of the fifth century. The Council of Chalcedon (451 AD) proclaims: “Now the Catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity.

Then the formula, “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet there are not three Gods, but one God” The symbol ends in the uncompromising spirit of St. Athanasius, whose name it bears: “This is the Catholic Faith, which, except a man believe faithfully and steadfastly, he cannot be saved”.

This is first time I ever read it, more please and who are the Athanasians? Did they had the authority to such proclamations and who gave them the authority?

I don’t intent to sounding unbelieving but it’s the first time I have ever heard this.

More celebrations and if you could point to few reading material.

Thanks.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Firstly, welcome Shorty…!

Secondly, are you saying that Jesus, who is God the Son, isn’t fully God and Fully Man…?

Did Jesus have flesh and bone?*

What I’m saying is that men are not the same manner of being God is just because he is made in the image of God. There is a context behind ‘image of God’ that Mormons (for example) don’t grasp.

That’s nice and all, but I rather wish you’d answer my questions with a simple yes or no (to each question) response.

I’m just trying to establish a “base level” as to what you believe.

Thanks again…!

 

[inJESUS]

Since the bible is word of God, would God say who is in very clear not ambiguous terms?

things are clear for us remember to always put the audiance in your mind.

Now, if Jesus said i am God, this does not fall well :

1- Jesus is not the Father.He made this clear because to a Jew, God is the Father. For Jesus to say I AM God, it means to a Jew that He is the Father so Jesus made it clear that He is the Divine Son, not the Father. So He was more than clear that He is not the Father but the Son. He said He is the divine Son. Jews understood correctly that He is equalling Himself to God but He made it clear He is the Divine Son, not the Father.

2-These teachings by Jesus could in **no way **be taught abruptly because of humans’ limited understanding and nature . This is why Jesus taught in parables to tell people who He is and this is exactly why He said : i talk of earthly things and you do not understand, how if i talk about the divine things? so Jesus took things step by step; even His disciples did not know who He is in one day.He opened their eyes for them to see and understand better who He is.

Sir, I’m Muslim not an atheist, of coarse our Lord Jesus is above all and many, what do you think he was made out of some dirt…??

do you believe a human is above humanity and angels? you find nothing special about Jesus putting Himself above humans and angels?