Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[Keikiolu]

Quote: Originally Posted by **Keikiolu** [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2882611#post2882611) *I left out an "M", apparently....
Try this: Mohammedans*

Basically,… a follower of Big Mo in one way or another.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

**That I consider an insult intentionally or due to lack of knowledge, but I will refrain from returning it in kindness as the bible says… turn the other cheek…

Sadly, you are the first Catholic who insulted me on this forum and for what I don’t know and only hope some one does not do the same thing.

Thank you.**

You insult easily.

Your sensitivity is noted, and seen for what it is. Typical behavior behaved typically.

I imagine that the “Big Mo” bit was the “offender”.

Sorry about that if it is not a thing done by a mohammedan, but I’m not of that group, and consider Mo to be just another human being sadly afflicted with some truly amazing delusions, who started an incredibly effective social movement which has done untolled damage to humanity.

But,… hey,… that’s only me. What do I know…!

Best to you, and if you’d like to talk about any particular point of consequence of our respective views of our rather conflicting beliefs, just let me know, and we can work toward some mutual understanding, even if that understanding is to understand that we agree to disagree with each other…!

All great things to you, and may God bless you with the humilty you deserve to find Him.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[EB4304]

If man is made in the image of God, that means that means that God has an image, and that image looks like an man. That is good logic. If I sculpted a statute in your image, that means that you have an image that looks like that statute. So if God made man in His own image, that means that God’s image is that of man.

zerinus

You’re making a false assumption here. Made in man’s image means in his essence or likeness, not in his actual appearance. The essence we share with God is free will - the ability to say “I”. That is God’s essence (as is shown by God’s name of I Am at the Burning Bush). The Jews understood this, which is why they understood God as a Spirit, and not as a man. The Old Testament explicitly says that God is not a man (that does not mean that God, in Christ, cannot take a human nature. But notice here - Christ adds a human nature to his divine, spiritual nature. The preexistent Christ, the Logos of John’s Gospel, was not a man)

The Church has also always taught that God is a Spirit, and to be made in His image means to share in essence - not appearance. You’re misunderstanding the word ‘image’ to mean physical likeness, which it does not imply in any way.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Son of God to the biblically literate of Jesus’ day meant he is God.

John 5:18 (New International Version)

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

the text goes on to explain, whatever work Jesus saw God the Father do, in his own power he would do the same work. Jesus did not do anything on his own, but took the guidence of the Father, while opperating under his own power.

 

[BibleSteve]

Son of God to the biblically literate of Jesus’ day meant he is God.

John 5:18 (New International Version)

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

the text goes on to explain, whatever work Jesus saw God the Father do, in his own power he would do the same work. Jesus did not do anything on his own, but took the guidence of the Father, while opperating under his own power.

Daniel,

I respect you as a serious Bible student. I do however want to point out that just because the Jews thought something, doesn’t make it true. Jesus never said he was God… he never said he was “equal to God”… The account is reporting what the Jews incorrectly thought…

…not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Case in point, was he breaking the Sabbath, or was this just what the Jews thought?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Daniel,

I respect you as a serious Bible student. I do however want to point out that just because the Jews thought something, doesn’t make it true. Jesus never said he was God… he never said he was “equal to God”… The account is reporting what the Jews incorrectly thought…

Jesus said he did. In the Book of Revelation, he said, I am the Alpha, and the Omega, the Beginning and the Last. We know God to be without a beginning and without End.

Case in point, was he breaking the Sabbath, or was this just what the Jews thought?

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you…”

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself “Lord.” “The Lord has need of them.”

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

 

[BibleSteve]

I never cease to be amazed at the shallowness of Trinitarian proof texts… Is there not anyone here who will note these scriptures are useless in proving a Trinity?

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself.

How do you know this in reference to himeself? If I say “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” does that make me God? Jesus was simply referring to his Father YHWH…

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you…”

How exactly does this make Jesus equal to God?

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

So anyone who is called “Lord” is God? How about Abraham? You need to read up on the Tetragrammaton… how YHWH’s name was removed from the Bible and replaced with LORD

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Jesus gave the apostle authority to forgive sins… Does that make them God? YHWH gave Jesus authority to foregive sins… No proof here…

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

This is a proof text to you?

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself “Lord.” “The Lord has need of them.”

This is a proof that Jesus is Jehovah?

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Son of God isn’t “God the Son”…

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Scriptural reference please?

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.

Yes, as the only begottob “Son of God” he has unique intimacy with his Father YHWH

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Yes, YHWH sent Jesus as his representative to do his will… when Jesus does things for God, this doesn’t make Jesus = YHWH…

 

[MH84]

Son of God to the biblically literate of Jesus’ day meant he is God.

John 5:18 (New International Version)

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

the text goes on to explain, whatever work Jesus saw God the Father do, in his own power he would do the same work. Jesus did not do anything on his own, but took the guidence of the Father, while opperating under his own power.

I have noticed you have said this a few times so I assume that you have a good reason to believe this. I want to believe that, but I can’t, not just yet.

Look at the Scripture

John 1: 46 And Nathanael said to him: Can any thing of good come from Nazareth? Philip saith to him: Come and see. 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him: and he saith of him: Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile. 48 Nathanael saith to him: Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered, and said to him: Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered him, and said: Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered, and said to him: Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, thou believest: greater things than these shalt thou see.

Nathanael called Jesus the “Son of God” before he even came to know Jesus. Unless Nathael was guided by the Holy Spirit, why would Nathanael call someone Son of God when according to your understanding “Son of God” means “God” or “equal to God”.

Matthew 14: 31 And immediately Jesus stretching forth his hand took hold of him, and said to him: O thou of little faith, why didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were come up into the boat, the wind ceased. 33 And they that were in the boat came and adored him, saying: Indeed thou art the Son of God. 34 And having passed the water, they came into the country of Genesar. 35 And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent into all that country, and brought to him all that were diseased. www.drbo.org

Here again Jesus is called Son of God, but I don’t think they knew He was God at the time. I mean why would the disciles have so many doubts after the Passion that He would rise again.

In no way am I a biblical scholar, but IMO the apostles did not use the term, “Son of God” to mean “God”; not until after the resurrection anyway.

 

[Protestant101]

I never cease to be amazed at the shallowness of Trinitarian proof texts… Is there not anyone here who will note these scriptures are useless in proving a Trinity?

Mat.4:7; Luke 4:12

How do you know this in reference to himeself? If I say “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” does that make me God? Jesus was simply referring to his Father YHWH…How exactly does this make Jesus equal to God?

You are not doing Bible study here; but what you write is excellent rationalization, and personal opinion.

Would you be willing to properly examine these two texts, in their intended context? Atleast “Trinitarians” are giving some Bible texts; but in this post you don’t give a single one to back up what you are saying. I think it would be worth looking at Luke 4:12 to start. Can you explain to us with Bible references, why your stated opinion is right on this text? If you base your answers on the Bible; this should be something you would be glad to do.

 

[AbeOman]

things are clear for us remember to always put the audiance in your mind.

Now, if Jesus said i am God, this does not fall well :

1- Jesus is not the Father.He made this clear because to a Jew, God is the Father. For Jesus to say I AM God, it means to a Jew that He is the Father so Jesus made it clear that He is the Divine Son, not the Father. So He was more than clear that He is not the Father but the Son. He said He is the divine Son. Jews understood correctly that He is equalling Himself to God but He made it clear He is the Divine Son, not the Father.

2-These teachings by Jesus could in **no way **be taught abruptly because of humans’ limited understanding and nature . This is why Jesus taught in parables to tell people who He is and this is exactly why He said : i talk of earthly things and you do not understand, how if i talk about the divine things? so Jesus took things step by step; even His disciples did not know who He is in one day.He opened their eyes for them to see and understand better who He is.

do you believe a human is above humanity and angels? you find nothing special about Jesus putting Himself above humans and angels?

**I did not, God Almighty did, and he teaches in the Quran the following “Isa’…(in Arabic) Yasu’ in Aramaic” is the Messiah. He is a word from God, and a spirit from Him. He is honoured in this world and in the hereafter, and he is one of those brought nearest to God"

Know you and I know what Messiah means and you can very well see his place and unique relationship with God Almighty, so do you think I’m mistaken or misspoken?

To put it jokingly, I don’t think angels or humans can attain such a place and relationship unless god will it… **

 

[inJESUS]

AbeOman, let me get this straight please. Does Islam teach that a prophet is above humanity and angels? or is it only about Jesus? or are all prophets above humanity? i know that being a prophet is a gift from God, but does this make him higher or more important in God’s eyes that humans?

 

[inJESUS]

Son of God to the biblically literate of Jesus’ day meant he is God.

.

no Daniel. The title itself has nothing to do with divinity. Humans are called sons of God. It is how Jesus used it about Himself that made the difference.

When Jesus says no one knows the Father except the Son, he was not using the title that refers to creatures since no creature knows God. Only God knows God.

 

[zerinus]

no Daniel. The title itself has nothing to do with divinity. Humans are called sons of God. It is how Jesus used it about Himself that made the difference.

The title “Son of God” is applied in the New Testament to Jesus in a unique or exclusive sense. Although all mankind are said to be the “children of God,” Jesus is referred to as being the “Only Begotten” Son of God.

John 1:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4:

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

“Only Begotten” implies that He is one of a kind. He is the Son of God in a unique sense that no one else is. Another sense in which Jesus is the Son of God in a unique sense is that He did not have natural father. God was literally His Father. This made perfectly clear in the New Testament:

Luke 1:

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

In this sense, Adam is also called in the scriptures the son of God, because he did not have a natural father. God was his father:

Luke 3:

37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

When Jesus says no one knows the Father except the Son, he was not using the title that refers to creatures since no creature knows God. Only God knows God.

Is that true? In that case no one can be saved then, because Jesus says the only way to be saved is to know God:

John 17:

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

zerinus

 

[MH84]

The title “Son of God” is applied in the New Testament to Jesus in a unique or exclusive sense. Although all mankind are said to be the “children of God,” Jesus is referred to as being the “Only Begotten” Son of God.

John 1:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4:

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

“Only Begotten” implies that He is one of a kind. He is the Son of God in a unique sense that no one else is. Another sense in which Jesus is the Son of God in a unique sense is that He did not have natural father. God was literally His Father. This made perfectly clear in the New Testament:

Luke 1:

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

In this sense, Adam is also called in the scriptures the son of God, because he did not have a natural father. God was his father:

Luke 3:

37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Is that true? In that case no one can be saved then, because Jesus says the only way to be saved is to know God:

John 17:

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

zerinus

Technically speaking, how do we know that the term “only begotten Son of God” means Jesus is equal to God or Jesus is God. Was the term intended to mean this?

 

[zerinus]

Technically speaking, how do we know that the term “only begotten Son of God” means Jesus is equal to God or Jesus is God. Was the term intended to mean this?

Yes, in a sense it does:

Hebrews 1:

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

zerinus

 

[BibleSteve]

On Heb 1:8, I would encourage any serious Bible students to dig just a little deeper and compare various translations…

Although several translations reads: “Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’” (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, other translations reads: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” (AT, Mo, TC).

Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression “God, thy God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. **Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”) **Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” (1*Chron. 29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13,*14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.

 

[BibleSteve]

There’s a good discussion about Heb 1:8 in Jason deBuhn’s “Truth in Translation” pages 97-101.

The discussion explains that Heb 1:8 is one of the verses that gives translators problems because there is no verb.

“The problem in Heb 1:8 is that we are not sure where the verb “is” belongs in the sentence, and where it belongs makes a big difference in the meaning of the verse.”

“Both translations are possible, so none of the translations we are comparing can be rejected as inaccurate… But, which translation is more probable?”

"So, we must conclude that the more probable translation is “God is your throne…” “Three giants of modern New Testament scholarship – Westcott, Moffatt, and Goodspeed – came to the same conclusion independantly”…

 

[BibleSteve]

Hebrews 1:8,9 quotes from Psalm 45:6,7, concerning which the Bible scholar B. F. Westcott states: “The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·os′] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, ... therefore, O God, Thy God ...) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God ... ), and in apposition to [ho the·os′ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God ...). ... It is scarcely possible that ’Elo·him′] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·os′] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’”—The Epistle to the Hebrews pp 25, 26

 

[Mannyfit75]

I never cease to be amazed at the shallowness of Trinitarian proof texts… Is there not anyone here who will note these scriptures are useless in proving a Trinity?

The Baptism of Jesus is more of a testimony to prove that Trinity is a correct orthodox Christian belief.

16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the **Spirit of God **descending as a dove, and coming upon him. 17 And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16-17).

The Holy Spirit is often shown in Scripture was dove. The voice is none other than Jesus’ Father, the 1st Person of the Trinity. I don’t know how you would go about to interpret this, but this passage is just one of the many that proves our God is Trinitarian God.

How do you know this in reference to himeself? If I say “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” does that make me God? Jesus was simply referring to his Father YHWH…

Well in the later passages. After Jesus resurrection, St. Thomas said to Jesus. “My Lord and My God.” Is Thomas lying.

How exactly does this make Jesus equal to God?

Jesus said before Abraham was I AM. The Jews responded by trying to kill him.

So anyone who is called “Lord” is God? How about Abraham? You need to read up on the Tetragrammaton… how YHWH’s name was removed from the Bible and replaced with LORD

Jews never use God’s name so they address him publicly. They always call God, Lord. The Jewish prayer makes this very clear.

“Hear O, Hear, Israel. The Lord, Our God, is One.”

Jesus gave the apostle authority to forgive sins… Does that make them God? YHWH gave Jesus authority to foregive sins… No proof here…

No. The Apostles are followers of Jesus Christ.

This is a proof text to you?

One of the proof text.

This is a proof that Jesus is Jehovah?

Jehovah is a false translation. The proper name is YHWH.

Son of God isn’t “God the Son”…

Son of God concerning Jesus is. Matthew 1:23 made this very clear.

23 Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God is with us."

We know Jesus is Emmanuel. If you remove Emmanuel and put God is with us, you will see that Jesus is indeed God made flesh.

"Behold a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son and they shall call his name “God is with us.” This is fullment of Messiah.

There is really some bad theology, you are writing. I have never seen such bad exploitation of denying Jesus’ divinity by someone who would call himself a Christian.

((I’ll give some more proof tex))

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus is God made flesh. The Gospel of John as well as other Gospel text testify that Jesus is God.

1 In the** beginning was the Word**, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. 9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And** the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us**, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,)** full of grace and truth**. 15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.

And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites to him, to ask him: Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and did not deny: and he confessed: I am not the Christ. --Gospel of John Chapter verse 1-20.

Questions for you to consider:

1. If you deny that Jesus is God then who is the Word that became flesh in verse 14?

Like I said this is just one of the many verse that prove Jesus is God. The Book of Revelation is another.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Another Scripture Text:

Book of Revelation Chapter 1:6-20

6 And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth shall bewail themselves because of him. Even so. Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. 9 I John, your brother and your partner in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience in Christ Jesus, was in the island, which is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus. 10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks: 13 And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 And his head and his hairs were white, as white wool, and as snow, and his eyes were as a flame of fire, 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as in a burning furnace. And his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars. And from his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword: and his face was as the sun shineth in his power. 17 And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, 18 And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell. 19 Write therefore the things which thou hast seen, and which are, and which must be done hereafter. 20 The mystery of the seven stars, which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. And the seven candlesticks are the seven churches.

As you can see. God is speaking to John. First he said he is the Alpha and the Omega.

These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, and signify the same as what follows: The beginning and the end: the first cause and last end of all beings: who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty-- These words signify the true God only, and are here applied to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is to come again to judge the living and the dead.

In verse 17-18. He said it again but he word it differently. I am the First and the Last… then on verse 18… God said I was alive and was dead and behold I am living forever. This passage clearly show that it is Jesus. For Jesus did die on the cross and rose from the dead, just as Scripture says.

I don’t see in Scripture how Jesus would deny himself as God. If he did deny himself. Then why didn’t he rebute St. Thomas when he called him My Lord and My God, and then worshipped him.