Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[Daniel_Marsh]

C works if the generating force is God because God would generate His kind. Divine nature

In fact Benadam, it is because kind generates kind that Muslims reject Jesus as being the Son of God in the first place.

Steve, Ask any Muslim, they will say that Jesus is not God’s Son.

Yes, some reject such because they think on the level of mommy god and daddy god producing baby god, but others are more well versed than that.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The 26 translations I’ve reviewed say something to the effect that of everyone born to women (i.e. everyone), no one is greater than John the Baptist (i.e. he’s a really important guy, 2nd to no one, especially since he was the forerunner of Jesus), but a “lesser one in the kingdom” (i.e. someone chosen to fulfill the role of a king and priest in heaven), is greater than he (meaning he’s not going to fulfill the role of a king and priest in heaven).

I’m not sure what you’re looking for…

When Jesus says “no one is greater than he”, is a nice complement, but doesn’t necessarily means he’s better than the other prophets.

You’ll have to enlighten me with your thoughts on this…

Now, try applying that to “the father is greater than me” smile

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The closest analog that came to mind on the divinity issue is the Greek gods and their progeny. Some were imbued with “special” abilities. Gods breeding with humans has a long history… Since we have so much physical evidence on this issue I figured this was good enough…lol Degrees of human? Well it depends on the human…lol

I am no geneticist but I think that people can carry the genes for a trait but not express that trait, counter to your point. You say “if a divine being became a human being that person would fully express a human and divine nature”–you are making a rather factual statement here, can you support that factually? You make it sound as though you are talking science here…

You have totally lost me here.

And here…

Do you believe that the Greek gods are real? I have noticed others saying things similar to this. This is weird to me…

You need only read the history of christian theology in the church fathers to see that proof. Basically, the church fathers who were taught by the apostles, and they taught the next generation and so on, expounded the scriptures to bring out those very things.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Now, here is my challenge for you.

Arius was not born until 256 AD He wrote his book, The Banquet around 323 AD. We have given you lots of quotes dated before that which proves that early christians believed that Jesus is God. My quoting the scriptures only represents my opinion and you quoting the scriptures at best only represents your opinion at worse represts what you learned from jehovah’s witnesses.

So, first make a list of your theology, that Jesus is NOT God, 144,000 only going to heaven or whatever, make your list as specific as you can, with as many things you can think of, like soul sleep, etc.,

Second, limit your research to documents from 90 AD to 300 AD.

Try to find any church father, who was taught by the apostles or who are a second, third or fourth generation christian who believes everything you do.



So, where is your theology search list already?

Steve, are you upto this challenge? Where were the Arians before Arius? Your interpretation of the scriptures will not convince us. So, time for you to dig into history to find out that no one before the watchtower taught all that you believe.

We have done our part, we have presented to you quote after quote of those taught by apolstolic succession that proves the early christians believed that Jesus is God.

Your turn.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Steve we are looking forward to your evidences in the challenge thread, please start that thread by making a complete listing of your theology.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2909091#post2909091

 

[po18guy]

Daniel,

When you can pass this simple logic test, we can start reasoning on scriptures:

I can suggest some reputable de-programmers that can be of great assistance regarding clarity of thought. You are NOT Christian, that is why we cannot agree. WTBTS has profaned the name of God’s only begotten Son. Your “savior” is a creation, like you, Steve. Good luck.

 

[EB4304]

1- Jesus did not say He is God (not these words) in John as well.

 

[Benadam]

The closest analog that came to mind on the divinity issue is the Greek gods and their progeny. Some were imbued with “special” abilities. Gods breeding with humans has a long history… Since we have so much physical evidence on this issue I figured this was good enough…lol Degrees of human? Well it depends on the human…lol

I thought we were discussing nature as a description of being. To be this or to be that. The Greek mythology again proves it’s earthy source of understanding spiritual realities. Having so little or no knowledge of divine nature to base their gods on they could do nothing more than project human nature and call it divine In a way they dissociated fragments of human psyche personified those fragments then supersized them and called them gods. That isn’t able to offer a parallell to divine nature as revealed by Jesus Christ.

I am no geneticist but I think that people can carry the genes for a trait but not express that trait, counter to your point. You say “if a divine being became a human being that person would fully express a human and divine nature”–you are making a rather factual statement here, can you support that factually? You make it sound as though you are talking science here…

I believe real events involving real people revealed answers to the questions that plagued the ancients and all of us. who am I’ what is the reason I am’ ‘what is my relationship to everything else’ etc. Those answers established a belief system that founded the Greek culture nd over time was expressed as the stories of Greek myth.

Do you believe that divine nature exists?

 

[Benadam]

The 26 translations I’ve reviewed say something to the effect that of everyone born to women (i.e. everyone), no one is greater than John the Baptist (i.e. he’s a really important guy, 2nd to no one, especially since he was the forerunner of Jesus), but a “lesser one in the kingdom” (i.e. someone chosen to fulfill the role of a king and priest in heaven), is greater than he (meaning he’s not going to fulfill the role of a king and priest in heaven).

I’m not sure what you’re looking for…

When Jesus says “no one is greater than he”, is a nice complement, but doesn’t necessarily means he’s better than the other prophets.

You’ll have to enlighten me with your thoughts on this…

I’m looking for how you reconcile what this statement presents. Do you believe Jesus is saying that he is not born of woman or that John is a greater prophet than he is. And there is no ambiguity in Jesus’ words when he say’s there is no greater prophet than John amongst those born of women. Jesus defines a group ‘those born of women’ and he defines a measure of greatness within the group ‘no one greater than John’ This presents a paradox if you believe Jesus is greater than John yet born of women too. Which I am assuming you do, so I was wondering how this statement by Jesus is resolved.

It is resolved for me when I understand that when Jesus defines a group as ‘born of women’ he is refering to the ‘mother of all the living’ . everyone born of her has Adam as their father because adam is the generating force as all father’s are. Jesus wouldn’t mention ‘born of women’ if it was ‘all’ inclusive because it would be a waste of words. He could have said .There is no one greater than John. Now Jesus here is revealing that the force that generated his birth is not Adam because all who are born of women are generated from Adam. That underlies what he means the many times he said ‘this generation.’ This theme is expanded on in His next statement where He describes the characteristics of the greatest of ‘this generation’ ‘born of women’ and the least of those who become one with what God has generated, namely Jesus who is the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[BibleSteve]

Thank you for your analysis and view of this passage.

I observe the the entire paragraph is focussed on John the Baptist, and that he’s a really special guy compared to all the prophets that had existed prior to him. However, a “lesser one in the Kingdom of the Heavens” is greater than John the Baptist. The goal of getting into the Kingdom of the Heavens is something that became available at this time period from John forward.

(Matthew 11:7-15) While these were on their way, Jesus started to say to the crowds respecting John: “What did YOU go out into the wilderness to behold? A reed being tossed by a wind? 8What, then, did YOU go out to see? A man dressed in soft garments? Why, those wearing soft garments are in the houses of kings. 9Really, then, why did YOU go out? To see a prophet? Yes, I tell YOU, and far more than a prophet. 10 This is he concerning whom it is written, ‘Look! I myself am sending forth my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way ahead of you!’ 11Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. 12But **from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal **toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; 14and if YOU want to accept it, He himself is ‘E·li′jah who is destined to come.’ 15*Let him that has ears listen.

 

[Benadam]

Thank you for your analysis and view of this passage.

I observe the the entire paragraph is focussed on John the Baptist, and that he’s a really special guy compared to all the prophets that had existed prior to him. However, a “lesser one in the Kingdom of the Heavens” is greater than John the Baptist. The goal of getting into the Kingdom of the Heavens is something that became available at this time period from John forward.

 

[Benadam]

In fact Benadam, it is because kind generates kind that Muslims reject Jesus as being the Son of God in the first place.

Steve, Ask any Muslim, they will say that Jesus is not God’s Son.

Yes, some reject such because they think on the level of mommy god and daddy god producing baby god, but others are more well versed than that.

Crazy world Daniel. Theology used to persuade one is theology accepted by another to deny.

Steve, I wonder if you believe that Jesus’ relationship with the Father is a true and authentic Father Son relationship or if you will like the muslims deny Jesus the title Son of God.

 

[BibleSteve]

Steve, I wonder if you believe that Jesus’ relationship with the Father is a true and authentic Father Son relationship or if you will like the muslims deny Jesus the title Son of God.

The relationship between YHWH and Jesus is that of Father & Son. Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, the Messiah, who provided the ransom sacrifice and made eternal life possible for mankind.

He is the central figure in the outworking of YHWH’s purpose.

 

[mkarzon]

He is the central figure in the outworking of YHWH’s purpose.

He IS YHWH’s purpose.

The Jesus of the Bible did claim he is God because the Catechism of the Cathoic Church says so. And without the Catechism, the Bible isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

 

[MH84]

The Jesus of the Bible did claim he is God because the Catechism of the Cathoic Church says so. And without the Catechism, the Bible isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

I wouldnt go that far

 

[BibleSteve]

The Jesus of the Bible did claim he is God because the Catechism of the Cathoic Church says so. And without the Catechism, the Bible isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

Wow! Thank you for sharing your view on this important issue.

 

[Benadam]

The relationship between YHWH and Jesus is that of Father & Son. Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, the Messiah, who provided the ransom sacrifice and made eternal life possible for mankind.

He is the central figure in the outworking of YHWH’s purpose.

Amen Steve. I feel bound by conscience to ask that you be open to all truth concerning that relationship and what it means to generate and be generated especially in regards of Our Father’s generation of His Word. God’s Cognizance of Himself.

 

[paarsurrey]

Did Jesus of Bible claimed he is God in any book of Bibles?
Here is a typical answer from a Christian:
Does this “answer” make any sense at all?

Hi

I being an Ahmadi Muslim don’t think so.

It might be an exaggeration of the Catholics stemming from the misconception that Jesus got killed, by hands of the Jews, disgracefully on the Cross.

This concept has been refuted amply by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 by receiving a Word of GodAllahYHWH, by arguments from the Bible/Quran/History etc in a short book of about a hundred small pages. One may benefit from it by accessing, only if one likes, to see the other side of the issue:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi

I being an Ahmadi Muslim don’t think so.

It might be an exaggeration of the Catholics stemming from the misconception that Jesus got killed, by hands of the Jews, disgracefully on the Cross.

Thanks

Hi Paarsurrey, long time I have not read your posting. By saying Catholics, are you saying that the non Catholic Christians also believe that Jesus did not killed by hands of the Jews, survived, and live peacefully in India, while his followers were persecuted and get killed?

 

[peary]

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, *“you shall not tempt the Lord your God” *in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares,* “You heard it said…but I say to you…” *

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, *“Lord, Lord.” *Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself “Lord.” *“The Lord has need of them.” *

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, *“whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” *

John 6:38 - Jesus says, *“For I have come down from heaven.” *

John 8:12 - Jesus says* “I am the light of the world.” *- 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, *“if you knew me, you would know my Father also.” *

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, *“Before Abraham was, I AM.” *Exodus 3:14 - “I AM” means “Yahweh,” which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, “I and the Father are one.” They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus’ statement in John 14:28, “the Father is greater than I,” cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus’ statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is *“the Son of God.” *

John 10:38; 14:10 - *“the Father is in me and I am in the Father” *means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, *“He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.” *God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, *“You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.” *

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, “all things that the Father has are Mine.” Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that *“He came from the Father and has come into the world.” *

John 17:5,24 - Jesus’ desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying *“My Father and your Father.” *

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the *“Alpha and the Omega.” *In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the *“Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” *The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, *“I am the First and the Last.” *This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says “I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore.” When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, *“The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life.” *When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.