Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

[majick275]

Maj:

Perhaps you should ask Bart this quesiton. I doubt that he minds the route the conversation has taken, for after starting the discussion, he never posted a reply.

my point was that if this discussion was taking place under an accurate thread title then those who might want to participate in THIS discussion would see it and know to come on in. in the meantime those of us who really want to explore just how much Joseph Smith taught from the BoM could. besides this is now much more than just a “conversation” you are effectively receiving the “discussions” from Zerinus with others starting to join in as they believe they have a potential convert in you. That is certainly something that deserves it’s own thread.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I will tell you an interesting experience I have had with scripture reading. Before I gained my testimony of the Book of Mormon, I found scripture reading very difficult. I had tried picking up the Bible and attempting to read it, but never got very far. It seemed heavy, dull, and uninteresting. After I gained my spiritual witness of the Book of Mormon, there was a 180 degree change. Suddenly the Bible, and all scripture in fact, became unbelievably interesting. I couldn’t put them down, and have been reading them ever since. The Book of Mormon not only gave me a testimony of the Book of Mormon, but of all scripture, including the Bible. After that, I didn’t just know that the Book of Mormon is true; I knew that the Bible is true. And since then it has never lost its interest for me.
…I can tell you from personal experience that that is true. No one can really know that the Bible is true without the testimony of the Holy Ghost; and that testimony will not come to someone who rejects the Book of Mormon. The two go together. It is either both or nothing. To gain a testimony of the Book of Mormon is to gain a testimony of the Bible. You know when you have got it when suddenly the study of them becomes immensely interesting to you, and easy to read. That is one of the signs by which you can tell if you have received that spiritual testimony or not.

zerinus

Before i believed in Jesus, i never read anything but a few books (The Hobbit, for example) and comic books. I never had an interest in reading much of anything.

After someone introduced me to Christ and the Gospel, i began reading the Bible. I thought that was what Christians do, so i read the Gospels, then i read the rest of the New Testament. Then i read the Old Testament. I read it for hours every week, and in a few months i had read the entire Bible. Since then, i read the Bible frequently. The neat thing is that the Spirit of God always shows me some interesting truth i’d never seen before. The words are powerful to me and teach me so much about myself and God and how to know Jesus more fully and become more like Him. I find the words to be true to me:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.*(Hebrews 4:12)*and Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches. I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. (Psalm 119)

In fact, i cannot read all of Psalm 119 without shedding tears and repenting of sin. Other passages i cannot read without feeling relief of anxiety and a strong sense of peace and joy. For some reason, this passage always has that effect on meo not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

*(Philippians 4:6)*It appears to me, Zer, that our experiences are similar. We each have a love and passion for the Word of God. I have not experienced the same for the Book of Mormon, at least not yet. Yet, you appear to be saying that one cannot experience such a love and zeal for the Bible unless he first experiences the same for the Book of Mormon.

Am i understanding you correctly? Are you saying that my passion for the Bible is a said love, but not a real one?

* *

 

[RebeccaJ]

. When their behavior embarrasses their own fellow Catholics…
zerinus

There ya go, defining people’s emotions for them.

 

[zerinus]

Before i believed in Jesus, i never read anything but a few books (The Hobbit, for example) and comic books. I never had an interest in reading much of anything.

After someone introduced me to Christ and the Gospel, i began reading the Bible. I thought that was what Christians do, so i read the Gospels, then i read the rest of the New Testament. Then i read the Old Testament. I read it for hours every week, and in a few months i had read the entire Bible. Since then, i read the Bible frequently. The neat thing is that the Spirit of God always shows me some interesting truth i’d never seen before. The words are powerful to me and teach me so much about myself and God and how to know Jesus more fully and become more like Him. I find the words to be true to me:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.*(Hebrews 4:12)*and Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches. I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. (Psalm 119)

In fact, i cannot read all of Psalm 119 without shedding tears and repenting of sin. Other passages i cannot read without feeling relief of anxiety and a strong sense of peace and joy. For some reason, this passage always has that effect on meo not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

*(Philippians 4:6)*It appears to me, Zer, that our experiences are similar. We each have a love and passion for the Word of God. I have not experienced the same for the Book of Mormon, at least not yet. Yet, you appear to be saying that one cannot experience such a love and zeal for the Bible unless he first experiences the same for the Book of Mormon.

Am i understanding you correctly? Are you saying that my passion for the Bible is a said love, but not a real one?

* *

Not quite. I am not saying that your passion for the Bible is not genuine. What I am saying is that when you gain the testimony of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true, you will find that at the same time it will give you an added conviction of the truth of the Bible that you did not have before. You will discover that for yourself one of these days.

zerinus

 

[wanner47]

Frankly, I don’t care what Zer’s motives are. Perhaps he is “Lying for the Lord” or whatnot.

My point is that he is at least being respectful and charitable in his posts, while many Catholics aren’t.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Frankly, I don’t care what Zer’s motives are. Perhaps he is “Lying for the Lord” or whatnot.

My point is that he is at least being respectful and charitable in his posts, while many Catholics aren’t.

His motives are important. Zerinus has a very good dispostion when he believe he has a potential convert. I suggest you look at his posts to see what happens when he perceives that potential is gone. Any display of “charity” is thrown out the window.

 

[hosemonkey]

I’ve been keeping up with this thread, and I have observed that Zerinus has been acting much more charitable in his posts than many of the Catholics.

Regardless of your feelings regarding the LDS Church, one can always ***respectfully ***disagree, and in a charitable manner.

If you saw someone setting fire to your neighbor’s house, would you not call the police and fire department? Zerinus and those like him have been on these forums for a long time, trying to peddle their mormon snake oil and trolling for victims and those whose faith is not so strong. I and others like me are crying foul and trying to debunk the false cult of mormonism. Sorry if I do not treat the snakes with kid gloves.

 

[hosemonkey]

His motives are important. Zerinus has a very good dispostion when he believe he has a potential convert. I suggest you look at his posts to see what happens when he perceives that potential is gone. Any display of “charity” is thrown out the window.

Exactly.

 

[wanner47]

His motives are important. Zerinus has a very good dispostion when he believe he has a potential convert. I suggest you look at his posts to see what happens when he perceives that potential is gone. Any display of “charity” is thrown out the window.

And if I see that happening, I’ll say something to him as well. But just because Zerinus may act uncharitably at times does not give everyone else free license to act uncharitably as well. We’re supposed to be better than that, according to Christ. I’m the first to admit that I’ve had my uncharitable moments on this board, but it’s something I’m struggling to correct.

 

[gryskull]

Not quite. I am not saying that your passion for the Bible is not genuine. What I am saying is that when you gain the testimony of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true, you will find that at the same time it will give you an added conviction of the truth of the Bible that you did not have before. You will discover that for yourself one of these days.

zerinus

Zer,

Do you mean to say that the conviction one finds in the Bible ain’t enough or complete? That it is inevitable for one to find conviction to the truthfullness of the BofM? What if one never gets that conviction about the BofM (like me)?

 

[ricko]

Zerinus, I just finished reading the BoM and have a question concerning Moroni chapter 8. This is God speaking through Mormon " I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children." More of the same is preached for 27 verses, the whole of the chapter. I don’t just find this strange that God would say such, I find it contary to the true word of God. Infant baptism is never condemned in the Bible and was practiced by the early church. Infant baptism was never a problem until the 16th century. Of course that might explain how it got into the BoM because it was written after the 16th century. Also God would not teach a different truth to a different people or time. If it was truly God the same message would be in both the Bible and the BoM. There is only one truth. A commandment such as this would be applied to everyone not just the ones in America. What say you?

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus, I just finished reading the BoM and have a question concerning Moroni chapter 8. This is God speaking through Mormon " I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children." More of the same is preached for 27 verses, the whole of the chapter. I don’t just find this strange that God would say such, I find it contary to the true word of God. Infant baptism is never condemned in the Bible and was practiced by the early church. Infant baptism was never a problem until the 16th century. Of course that might explain how it got into the BoM because it was written after the 16th century. Also God would not teach a different truth to a different people or time. If it was truly God the same message would be in both the Bible and the BoM. There is only one truth. A commandment such as this would be applied to everyone not just the ones in America. What say you?

Infant baptism is false doctrine and is not biblical. There is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus and His disciples ever practiced it or commanded it. There is no evidence that it was practiced in the primitive church. On the contrary, all the evidence points to the contrary.

zerinus

 

[StevenErickson]

My argument is that God would not confirm a falsehood. I believe in objective truth. I don’t see how anyone can argue the Book of Mormon is true.

I am not arguing that the Book of Mormon is true or false, you are. My questions are specifically around receiving answers to prayer.

You seem to shy away from this, despite the fact that you have confirmed that God has spoken to you directly in the past. Are you suggesting that your personal logic and reasoning is superior to direct communication from God?

 

[StevenErickson]

I beg to disagree. Our feelings can definitely misguide us. Just because you feel a comforting sensation by reading the BofM doesn’t mean that that is from God. Someone can read the Koran and have the same feeling do you think that that is from God also?

Personal communication from God is just that very personal. It is also very discernable from other communication. Have you never felt the influence and power of God before? MJ in his other post mentions he has been able to feel the power of God before. Perhaps he can help explain to you that it is a discernable communication.

I am puzzled how you know what another’s feelings are when they prayer about the Koran and Book of Mormon?

 

[wanner47]

If you saw someone setting fire to your neighbor’s house, would you not call the police and fire department? Zerinus and those like him have been on these forums for a long time, trying to peddle their mormon snake oil and trolling for victims and those whose faith is not so strong. I and others like me are crying foul and trying to debunk the false cult of mormonism. Sorry if I do not treat the snakes with kid gloves.

If I saw someone setting fire to my neighbor’s house, I’d call the fire department as opposed to yelling and screaming obscenities at the person in question. Regardless, it’s a false analogy.

Zer believes we have “Catholic snake oil” and he still manages to be charitable.

Rather than trying to justify your behavior, why don’t you pray about it?

 

[majick275]

If I saw someone setting fire to my neighbor’s house, I’d call the fire department as opposed to yelling and screaming obscenities at the person in question. Regardless, it’s a false analogy.

Zer believes we have “Catholic snake oil” and he still manages to be charitable.

Rather than trying to justify your behavior, why don’t you pray about it?

no he doesn’t. he has consistently called us apostates and worse. in any case there is a difference between going to LDS sites and denouncing their religion and defending the faith here. being charitable doesn’t require us to be silent or to avoid the whole truth in favor of politically correct platitudes. if someone is promoting spiritual poison you have to speak up. LDS scriptures come right out and say all other churches are false and their creeds and abomination in the sight of God and all who profess them corrupt. HERE at CATHOLIC answers I would think it a good thing to denounce false doctrine and false prophets as defined by the Catholic church. I won’t do it with obscenities but facts can sometimes sound harsh…especially if they are about evil doers.

 

[wanner47]

no he doesn’t. he has consistently called us apostates and worse. in any case there is a difference between going to LDS sites and denouncing their religion and defending the faith here. being charitable doesn’t require us to be silent or to avoid the whole truth in favor of politically correct platitudes. if someone is promoting spiritual poison you have to speak up. LDS scriptures come right out and say all other churches are false and their creeds and abomination in the sight of God and all who profess them corrupt. HERE at CATHOLIC answers I would think it a good thing to denounce false doctrine and false prophets as defined by the Catholic church. I won’t do it with obscenities but facts can sometimes sound harsh…especially if they are about evil doers.

There is a way to state facts about both Mormonism and Catholicism without being cruel, malicious, or uncharitable.

Like I said before, just because Zer has acted uncharitably in the past does not give everyone else free license to be uncharitable to him.

I would think that Protestants take as much umbrage to being called “separated brethren” as you do to being called an “apostate.” I don’t find the term offensive at all, albeit inaccurate.

 

[majick275]

There is a way to state facts about both Mormonism and Catholicism without being cruel, malicious, or uncharitable.

Like I said before, just because Zer has acted uncharitably in the past does not give everyone else free license to be uncharitable to him.

I would think that Protestants take as much umbrage to being called “separated brethren” as you do to being called an “apostate.” I don’t find the term offensive at all, albeit inaccurate.

i find apostate to be much worse but certainly calling the creeds abomination would be the worst. some of the facts ARE cruel and malicious.

 

[mjf001]

Not quite. I am not saying that your passion for the Bible is not genuine. What I am saying is that when you gain the testimony of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true, you will find that at the same time it will give you an added conviction of the truth of the Bible that you did not have before. You will discover that for yourself one of these days.

zerinus

From LDS articles of faith:
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

In practice, from what I experienced, the BoM, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price are emphasized more than the Bible. While growing up, I was encouraged to read the BoM more than the Bible.

 

[zerinus]

If I saw someone setting fire to my neighbor’s house, I’d call the fire department as opposed to yelling and screaming obscenities at the person in question. Regardless, it’s a false analogy.

Zer believes we have “Catholic snake oil” and he still manages to be charitable.

Actually, I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church (and so has the LDS Church). I have never spoken disrespectfully of the Catholic Church, nor have any other Mormons that have posted here. Okay, we believe that Christianity went into apostasy 2,000 years ago (and you probably believe something worse about us); but that does not mean that we believe the Christian religion or the Catholic Church that exists today (or has existed in the past) is an “evil thing”. The LDS Church respects the Catholic Church, and cooperates with it on humanitarian and other issues.

I would think that Protestants take as much umbrage to being called “separated brethren” as you do to being called an “apostate.” I don’t find the term offensive at all, albeit inaccurate.

Some points to note here. I have never called a Catholic person an “apostate” just for being a “Catholic”. When I have applied that term to specific individuals, or set of individuals, I have used it in a very limited and narrow sense. By “apostate” I mean someone who leaves his church or religion, and then hates it, turns against it, wages war against it, and calls it all kinds of evil and hateful names. Religion is a matter of personal choice. If somebody finds that Mormonism, or Catholicism, or Islam, or any other religion does not turn him on, and wishes to leave it and join another religion, that is fine; I have nothing against anyone doing that. Everyone should be free to choose whatever religion the wish to have. But when they afterwards turn against their former religion, declare war against it, and call it all kinds of evil and abusive names, that is a sign that they have something else up their sleeve. I have as much contempt for a Catholic person who leaves the Catholic Church and acts in this way (as many of them do, who become Protestants or Evangelicals, for example), as I have for a Mormon who leaves Mormonism, and then does the same. I am pleased to note that I have never come across a former Catholic turned Mormon that has acted in this way. There may be a few (if there are, they are certainly misguided); but I am glad that I have never come across one yet. Many of them have appeared on this board from time to time; but you can’t show me one that has acted in this way.

Most of the people on this board whose actions you have disapproved of are in fact Mormon “apostates,” according to the definition that I have just given above; and I do not hide the fact that I have nothing but contempt for such people. I think that apostates are the most contemptible and despicable people on the planet—no matter what religion they came from—whether they be Mormon apostates, or Catholic apostates, or any other. They are equally contemptible in my sight. Now if they think that that is uncharitable, then so be it. I am an uncharitable person towards apostates.

zerinus