Did LDS Church contribute to restoration of Salt Lake Cathedral?

[falisrm]

I’m not judging anyone, its a matter of following correct principles, which some of these agencies don’t know anything about.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m not judging anyone, its a matter of following correct principles, which some of these agencies don’t know anything about.

lol, what correct principles are those? Are they in the Bible somewhere?

 

[falisrm]

Duh, you would think so.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I’m not judging anyone, its a matter of following correct principles, which some of these agencies don’t know anything about.

So the correct principle is “giving is dependent upon the recipient behaving in a proper manner”, like in the following post?

The thing was the father or the family didn’t have to do a single thing to try and become self reliant. He wasn’t encouraged to do anything to support himself or his family like get a second job or develop a skill to get a higher salary. They just wrote to thank us for the extra money. Since when in the world is it a sin to be poor?

Looks to me like you’re the one calling the poor on their behavior.

 

[majick275]

No, your wrong. There are no paid welfare workers in the humanitarian program. If your talking about the social services program of the church, they hire lawyers or therapists for things like adoption or addiction meetings. Those are paid professionals, but other then that no one gets any financial salary. The whole $250 million PEF fund is run by volunteers, all the way to the highest manager who developed the program is a volunteer.

If you want to talk about effectiveness, i would gladly do that.

so you are telling me that no LDS general authorities are involved in any charitable efforts of the LDS church? please. SLC is ALWAYS involved. there is also the costs of utilities like water, electricity, gas, phone, etc.

if you are restricting your view to ONLY include the PEF fund then there may be less overhead but certainly there is some. that fund is a pretty minuscule amount of the overall LDS church.

 

[falisrm]

No, i’m saying there is no progress to an individual or a family who doesn’t have to strive to be free and independant and find the joy in supporting your own family. As a short term basis, that is fine. But to have it where the family receives this long term aid until the kids are out of the house. 10 to 18 years is a joke. It doesn’t “benefit” anyone.

But if the family is in need of immediate aid to feed themselves to sustain life of if there is a shortage due to natural dissaster, of course all aid should be available as much as possible for as long as possible because it takes years to become self reliant again.

It would be more effective to have long term aid to help families become more self reliant and more capable of providing for themselves in whatever way possible.

These are just simple principles about welfare and as a way of being effective

 

[RebeccaJ]

No, i’m saying there is no progress to an individual or a family who doesn’t have to strive to be free and independant and find the joy in supporting your own family. As a short term basis, that is fine. But to have it where the family receives this long term aid until the kids are out of the house. 10 to 18 years is a joke. It doesn’t “benefit” anyone.

But if the family is in need of immediate aid to feed themselves to sustain life of if there is a shortage due to natural dissaster, of course all aid should be available as much as possible for as long as possible because it takes years to become self reliant again.

It would be more effective to have long term aid to help families become more self reliant and more capable of providing for themselves in whatever way possible.

These are just simple principles about welfare and as a way of being effective

Which is nothing that Christ ever taught.

 

[falisrm]

Huh? Right, its just common sense and a basic principle in life. You don’t even have to be religious to understand this. Anyone would agree which its more effective.

 

[wademann]

So are you calling the cathedral clergy liars…they told me!

In the Cathedral there are two murals to the side of the high altar…one is the text, " If I or an angel from Heaven preach to you another Gospel and the other is Matthew16:16.

Brilliant …by the way the dediacation to Mary Magdelene was chosen …as the Mormons ntered the valley on he Feast day in 1847.

If it were true, then you are saying the catholic church was willing to sell out their principles for $$$$$$$?

 

[falisrm]

In terms of overhead, there are none. Like i said, there’s 4,000 humanitarian missionaries all over the world. So what ever project they are working on, they are the ones that manage it. Everything from measles in africa to wheel chairs to clean water.

The GA just create the ideas for the program. They pass it off to the humanitarian program to develop it and carry it out.

Locally its the same way. Local Bishops handle temporal aid which is all volunteer. The systems itself has no administration costs. The costs associated with lawyers or therapists are covered by for profit income the church has. Like i said, the goal is to get as much of the actual aid money directly to the beneficiaries. Its currently at 100%

 

[falisrm]

So this question really isn’t necessarily about how much aid but how effective is the aid that you give. Is it governed by correct principles that Christ would have taught if he was here. Thats almost always the discussion in the humanitarian world. Some agencies don’t really care.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Thats probably the biggest discussion. I contributed to the CRS program before and its nothing more then a socialist program. We started helping a poor family in the Philippines. So we supplimented their income by 20%. The thing was the father or the family didn’t have to do a single thing to try and become self reliant. He wasn’t encouraged to do anything to support himself or his family like get a second job or develop a skill to get a higher salary. They just wrote to thank us for the extra money. Since when in the world is it a sin to be poor? This is effective at all. Its just like what any socialist country does and give handouts. There’s no progress or development. If everyone was involved in CRS, half the world would be “dependant” on the other half. It was one of the most ineffective things i have ever seen in my life so we stopped.

After reading up on CRS activities in the Phillippines I find your questionable.

Seems you’ve switched from saying Catholics don’t give much, to they don’t do it right.

 

[falisrm]

I learned here they do give a ton. And i mentioned that several times. I thought i knew the majority of the aid programs like CRS but i was way off. Naturally, the next question is about effectiveness and the actual aid money.

 

[Stephen168]

Naturally, the next question is about effectiveness and the actual aid money.

Why?

 

[AMDGtoo]

Yes, I know that the “Mormon-in-the-pew” being told by their “higher ups” that Mormonism is charitable and humanitarian, however, some of us on this board have personal knowledge of what really happens. Yes, the Mormons have volunteers that provide services, but, well, they are untrained and some of the services do require someone trained. And there is “The Bishop’s Storehouse” that helps provide food, but the needy need to be Mormon plus they are expected to work for whatever help they get (and sometimes health or family responsibilities make that impossible.) Then there’s the “photo shoots” and publicity if any help is given in a public emergency. (An example: Just recently there was a very bad flood in my state where people lost virtually everything. Many churches, agencies, and even private citizens banded together for weeks to help the suffering people with food, pure drinking water, clothes, heavy equipment, et. al. And when the papers ran a story of it all, wouldn’t you know that no other help was mentioned–only the barrels of drinking water provided by the LDS. Granted, the people who lost everything certainly were grateful for the barrels, but there were others who provided aid as well–aid in not only man-hours, but in other necessities too.)

BTW like was mentioned, I too wonder where the LDS hospitals, free-clinics, soup-kitchens, shelters, orphanages, elementary schools, low-income housing developments, et.al. are. Somehow Deseret Industries where donated items are auctioned off each week doesn’t quite “cut it”. And somehow I feel that “small army” of youthful LDS missionaries that go door-to-door, could be put to better use in the peace corps or hands-on helping the poor.

 

[falisrm]

Because Christ wants us to follow the most correct principles in existance. He was the one that talked about humanitarian aid and how important it is to help each other. So its an interest to help as many people as possible with the most effective principles possible. Christ spent his whole life teaching us correct principles, isn’t it important to try and understand and learn as many of those principles as possible.

I agree though, the Catholic church is by far the largest and i really had no idea before. I looked everywhere for that kind of information and only now found it.

 

[falisrm]

Andgtoo, Did those floods happen to be in Washington State or Oregon? I’m sorry but your the one who is misrepresenting our PR program. I mentioned this earlier that the church only last year they started publishing any humanitarian aid information at all. Before that, they didn’t post a single statistic about it. That’s because they wanted to follow a different principle mentioned in the bible.

So your accussing us of the very principle the church has been following for the last 50 years. Thats a missrepresentation of their history.

 

[Stephen168]

I learned here they do give a ton. And i mentioned that several times. I thought i knew the majority of the aid programs like CRS but i was way off. Naturally, the next question is about effectiveness and the actual aid money.

My next question would be: how humbly to they give?
How freely do they give?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I’m no expert, but I would say that the LDS church spends most of it’s money building more temples. What else does it do with all the money it gets? Nobody seems to know. Very very secretive.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Did those floods happen to be in Washington State or Oregon?

The flood happened just a few months back in Washington state. And the thing about the Bishop’s storehouse also happened recently although another incident concerning aid from it only being given to a Mormon (even though the person was in need) was from several years ago.