Did Mary Die?

[Alexius]

My belief is that she did not, and this is not at all inconsistent with what God has done with other very holy people like Enoch, Moses, and Elijah.

Moses did not die? Really?

I remember somebody was trying to argue that Mary died and therefore she was with sin. So, if Jesus died, he was sinful too?

They probably meant that she died and therefore suffered the consequences of the original sin, so the Immaculate Conception is incompatible with this teaching because it would mean no death for the Theotokos.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

BTW: Jesus died because of the crucifixion, hence he was killed. Mary died a natural death.

 

[HailMary]

Mary died a natural death.

Her death was by no means “natural” if by natural you mean that she had to have died since death was a curse from the Covenant. Her death was actually a grace from God to more closely unite her to the suffering of her Son since she was preserved from the stain of Original Sin and therefore not under that curse.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Moses did not die? Really?

Moses did die… Dt 34:5-6 "5: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD,
6: and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-pe’or; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day. "

 

[Sixtus]

The early Church marked the grave of, and honoured the desceased St James the greater [brother, cousin etc of the Lord]. It seems logical therefore, that they would also have paid the same respect to the grave of His blessed Mother.

No doubt she too died. But why they chose to ignore her burial site remains a complete mystery…unless she was not buried…

 

[RPConover]

The only tradition that indicates that the Blessed Virgin Mary was assumed into heaven also states that she died(fell asleep in the Lord). So why on earth should be there any question about it?

I think just because so many Latin Catholics grew up never knowing that there was more to the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary they figure she just one day was taken up alive on a cloud into heaven. (Which would make sense if one didn’t know anything other than that we say she was assumed)

 

[myfavoritmartin]

This thread is shining alot of light on the worthyness of sacred tradition!
Not sidetracking my own thread just making a point.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

It’s hard to see how her death can be disputed by Catholics considering the words of Pope Pius XII in the very document by which he dogmatically defined the Assumption.

It would, btw, be quite impossible for Eastern Catholics not to believe that the Mother of God died without doing an act of violence to their sacred Tradition. The iconography, the hymnography and the oral Tradition all teach that she did in fact die.

People like to say that the Apostolic Constitution “Munificentissimus Deus” by which Pope Pius XII established the dogma of the Assumption in 1950 makes no mention of whether Mary died or did not die.

This is quite inaccurate. One only has to read the document to see that the Pope believes that she died. For example, he says:

"Thus, to cite an illustrious example, this is set forth in that sacramentary which Adrian I, our predecessor of immortal memory, sent to the Emperor Charlemagne. These words are found in this volume: “Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself.”

and

“As he kept you a virgin in childbirth, thus he has kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb.”

and

“They offered more profound explanations of its meaning and nature, bringing out into sharper light the fact that this feast shows, not only that the dead body of the Blessed Virgin Mary remained incorrupt…”

and

“she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb…”

and

“What son would not bring his mother back to life and would not bring her into paradise after her death if he could?”

All these quotes from the papal document defining the Assumption are incontrovertible proof that the Pope taught that Mary died and was buried in a tomb and from there she was resurrected by her Son.

---

“MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS” Pope Pius XII
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12MUNIF.HTM

 

[joe5046]

My personal belief is no.

Because he was born without original sin, she never suffered the consequences of it, namely death.

 

[HailMary]

It’s hard to see how her death can be disputed by Catholics considering the words of Pope Pius XII in the very document by which he dogmatically defined the Assumption.

It would, btw, be quite impossible for Eastern Catholics not to believe that the Mother of God died without doing an act of violence to their sacred Tradition. The iconography, the hymnography and the oral Tradition all teach that she did in fact die.

People like to say that the Apostolic Constitution “Munificentissimus Deus” by which Pope Pius XII established the dogma of the Assumption in 1950 makes no mention of whether Mary died or did not die.

This is quite inaccurate. One only has to read the document to see that the Pope believes that she died. For example, he says:

"Thus, to cite an illustrious example, this is set forth in that sacramentary which Adrian I, our predecessor of immortal memory, sent to the Emperor Charlemagne. These words are found in this volume: “Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself.”

and

“As he kept you a virgin in childbirth, thus he has kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb.”

and

“They offered more profound explanations of its meaning and nature, bringing out into sharper light the fact that this feast shows, not only that the dead body of the Blessed Virgin Mary remained incorrupt…”

and

“she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb…”

and

“What son would not bring his mother back to life and would not bring her into paradise after her death if he could?”

All these quotes from the papal document defining the Assumption are incontrovertible proof that the Pope taught that Mary died and was buried in a tomb and from there she was resurrected by her Son.

---

“MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS” Pope Pius XII
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12MUNIF.HTM

Thank you Fr Ambrose for that reference; I have not encountered it before. God Bless

 

[puzzleannie]

The early Church marked the grave of, and honoured the desceased St James the greater [brother, cousin etc of the Lord]. It seems logical therefore, that they would also have paid the same respect to the grave of His blessed Mother.

No doubt she too died. But why they chose to ignore her burial site remains a complete mystery…unless she was not buried…

there are actually two places, Ephesus and Jerusalem, that claim to have sites venerated since the early days of the Church as the place of her entombment, that is currently being discussed on another thread. There are icons arising from the Eastern church that show her tomb and her assumption, they usually show the apostles as witnesses. The Church is silent on the issue.

 

[Zooey]

Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist believes that Mary did not die, but was assumed into Heaven still alive"at the end of her earthly life", like Enoch & Elijah.
Since this is based on my own personal interpretation of Scripture, however, I would not presume to argue the point.

 

[joshua_b]

Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist believes that Mary did not die, but was assumed into Heaven still alive"at the end of her earthly life", like Enoch & Elijah.
Since this is based on my own personal interpretation of Scripture, however, I would not presume to argue the point.

Actually Zooey, your opinions are really just as valid as any of ours. The official Church teaching is that Mary was assumed into heaven body and soul. Anything outside of this is “free reign” and we Catholics are free to hold our own opinions. I personally have seen very compelling arguments for both sides, drawing from many different sources.

 

[Dominic_Brother]

It’s hard to see how her death can be disputed by Catholics considering the words of Pope Pius XII in the very document by which he dogmatically defined the Assumption.

---

“MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS” Pope Pius XII
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12MUNIF.HTM

Hello Fr. Ambrose.

Thank you for a great post!!

I acknowledge that most theologians think Mary did die…(Mary’s “falling asleep” in death as it is often quoted). And it’s really disturbing for anyone to have an opinion different from Pope Pius XII, (such as myself, since I believe Mary did not die). I must admit that I have not read the document by Pope Pius XII in fine detail.

Scripture says that Enoch and Elijah did not die. Therefore it must be possible for Mary to not have died.

If Mary did die, then the perception is that Enoch or Elijah had a better fate that Mary herself. I suppose I am envious of Enoch/Elijah, a deadly sin?

Does anyone know if the church Fathers or the Popes explain why Enoch/Elijah do not die but Mary does?

On a different angle, for me, *falling asleep and not dieing *is not the same thing as falling asleep and dieing.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Yes.

 

[Genesis315]

St. Alphonsus Liguouri, in his masterpiece “Glories of Mary” said that like her Son, she did die despite being sinless. One reason is that God granted her the privilege of following the path her Son took. Likewise, her ardent love for God and her desire to be with God was too strong for her not-yet-glorified body. The same goes for her sorrows due to her great love for her Son and her knowledge of His sufferings. These sorrows would have killed any other human being. St. Alphonsus says it was a great supernatural miracle to keep her alive for for every moment she lived.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

The early Church marked the grave of, and honoured the desceased St James the greater [brother, cousin etc of the Lord]. It seems logical therefore, that they would also have paid the same respect to the grave of His blessed Mother.

No doubt she too died. But why they chose to ignore her burial site remains a complete mystery…unless she was not buried…

There is another option. I will leave you to figure it out.

 

[Dominic_Brother]

St. Alphonsus Liguouri, in his masterpiece “Glories of Mary” said that like her Son, she did die despite being sinless. One reason is that God granted her the privilege of following the path her Son took. Likewise, her ardent love for God and her desire to be with God was too strong for her not-yet-glorified body. The same goes for her sorrows due to her great love for her Son and her knowledge of His sufferings. These sorrows would have killed any other human being. St. Alphonsus says it was a great supernatural miracle to keep her alive for for every moment she lived.

Thanks Genesis315 for sharing your knowledge of St. Alphonsus. Redemptorists have influenced me greatlty in my spiritual life; St. Alphonsus is one of a number of patron saints I hold in high regard. I will keep what the Saint has said and meditate on it. It may change my strong belief that Mary did not die.

 

[Genesis315]

Thanks Genesis315 for sharing your knowledge of St. Alphonsus. Redemptorists have influenced me greatlty in my spiritual life; St. Alphonsus is one of a number of patron saints I hold in high regard. I will keep what the Saint has said and meditate on it. It may change my strong belief that Mary did not die.

Here’s a good chapter I found online specifically on her death:

themissionchurch.com/stasermonassumption.htm

 

[wcknight]

I believe the story is that Mary died and when the Apostles went to bury her, her body was gone. The early Church always assumed, that the angels took up to Heaven body and soul.

 

[Gamera]

Moses did die… Dt 34:5-6 "5: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD,
6: and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-pe’or; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day. "

Moses did die, but his body was assumed into heaven. “Yet Michael the Archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring agiainst him a railing accusation, but said, the Lord rebuke thee,” Jude 9.

So the Bible shows us two examples of people being assumed into heaven without dying (Enoch and Elijah) and one example of a person’s body being assumed after they died. So whether or not our Blessed Mother Mary died, her Assumption had precedent.