Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

[gracepoole]

Yes, of course this is why you’re doing it! Keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it!

Why do you insist on calling people here liars? You can’t possibly know what’s in someone’s heart.

 

[7_Sorrows]

As a vet I’ve never really bought the idea that Donald Trump has an amazing record of supporting the military. It seems to be based mostly on him saying, “I like the military.”

I do know that during Vietnam he mysteriously developed bone spurs when his educational deferments ran out and it looked like he might be drafted. Interestingly, these bone spurs never prevented him from playing sports, and they mysteriously healed without surgery after the Vietnam War was over. Interesting timing…

And as a side note, I think people trash the VA too much. They really do have a huge task and they’re not always well funded.

Did Obama or Bill or Hillary Clinton serve in the military? Bernie Sanders?

 

[Michael68]

Why do you insist on calling people here liars? You can’t possibly know what’s in someone’s heart.

Well, I do believe all this Russian stuff is a lie. Just like “Nobody, tapped Trump Towers, OH, wait, except for some really bad guys”!

 

[oldcelt]

I kinda know what you mean. My grandfather was at D day +5 and he always downplayed that because he was a clerk. He was, like you, a Hero!

My father was also at D+5 with the 310th Signal Operations Battalion. He also downplayed his role.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Did Obama or Bill or Hillary Clinton serve in the military? Bernie Sanders?

Please tell me why you think this is a relevant question. I’m honestly curious. Do you think if Bill Clinton is a punk it somehow excuses Trump?

If I had a dollar for every time a Trump defender did an awkward pivot to, “Well, but Bill Clinton…” even when no one was defending Clinton, I could retire.

Anyway, even though it’s not relevant and I’m not a Democrat, here goes:

-Sanders was too old to be drafted when his number popped up. He also was a conscientious objector.
-Obama was too young to be drafted.
-Hillary Clinton is a woman, and women were not drafted.
-Bill Clinton has no excuse as far as I can tell.

Now, maybe Trump really did have some bone spurs that just happened to surface right around the time his educational deferments ran out and then conveniently disappeared when the war ended. But color me suspicious.

 

[gracepoole]

Well, I do believe all this Russian stuff is a lie. Just like “Nobody, tapped Trump Towers, OH, wait, except for some really bad guys”!

You deemed another poster’s explanation of his/her own reasons for believing something a lie. That’s quite different. And quite uncharitable.

 

[JonNC]

Number of counties is no more representative of number of people than the number of states was. Counties very greatly in the number of people. They are generally designed to have similar area.

Cherry-picking New York and California.

You are exactly correct. Counties don’t matter. Plebiscites don’t matter. States matter! States choose the president. They used to choose the senators and it a shame they don’t still. After all, the states created the constitution and the general government. They can end it if they choose.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

You are exactly correct. Counties don’t matter. Plebiscites don’t matter. States matter! States choose the president. They used to choose the senators and it a shame they don’t still. After all, the states created the constitution and the general government. They can end it if they choose.

Are you trying to convince NC to secede?

And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn’t matter but that’s only true if the question you’re asking is “who won the election?”

 

[LeafByNiggle]

You are exactly correct. Counties don’t matter. Plebiscites don’t matter. States matter!

There is no dispute as to what matters to legally choose a president. But if someone claims a** popular mandate**, as Trump did, then plebiscites matter more than any other measure.

 

[JonNC]

Are you trying to convince NC to secede?

And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn’t matter but that’s only true if the question you’re asking is “who won the election?”

Where did you get that idea?

If the popular vote matters in some way, then so does counties.

 

[JonNC]

There is no dispute as to what matters to legally choose a president. But if someone claims a** popular mandate**, as Trump did, then plebiscites matter more than any other measure.

He has a popular mandate. He won the election. He won the popular vote in 30 states. That’s a mandate. Not a Reagan sized one, but a mandate

 

[LeafByNiggle]

He has a popular mandate. He won the election.

The first statement does not follow from the second one.

He won the popular vote in 30 states.

We already went over why this does not define a mandate.

That’s a mandate. Not a Reagan sized one, but a mandate

By your interpretation, every win of an election is a mandate. Can you cite one presidential election that was not a mandate for the winner?

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Where did you get that idea?

If the popular vote matters in some way, then so does counties.

Just detected a note of something or other with the states being able to disestablish the national government comment.

And sure, the number of counties matter if the question is who won the most counties.

 

[Reuben_J]

Are you trying to convince NC to secede?

And again, no one is arguing that the popular vote determines the winner of the election. You keep saying it doesn’t matter but that’s only true if the question you’re asking is “who won the election?”

I think that is a valid question, who won the election? He won the election and therefore elected President. He won it even if it was by a single Electoral College vote.

Since the election system is decided by Electoral College votes, why talk about the popular vote, since the latter did not count on the outcome of the election?

Sure more people who voted did not vote for him thus losing the popular votes, but Americans should be gentleman enough and respect their system and now the focus should be on him discharging his duty as President. After all there are Americans who wanted what he stood for. That’s how the system works.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

I think that is a valid question, who won the election? He won the election and therefore elected President. He won it even if it was by a single Electoral College vote.

Since the election system is decided by Electoral College votes, why talk about the popular vote, since the latter did not count on the outcome of the election?

Sure more people who voted did not vote for him thus losing the popular votes, but Americans should be gentleman enough and respect their system and now the focus should be on him discharging his duty as President. After all there are Americans who wanted what he stood for. That’s how the system works.

No one is arguing that. “Who won the election?” is a legitimate question (and a pretty easily answered one.) “Does Donald Trump have a popular mandate?” is a different, but no less valid, question. Obviously it’s more of an academic question, but it’s still a perfectly fair question.

What country are you from, by the way. Doesn’t have anything to do with anything, just curious.

 

[Reuben_J]

No one is arguing that. “Who won the election?” is a legitimate question (and a pretty easily answered one.) “Does Donald Trump have a popular mandate?” is a different, but no less valid, question. Obviously it’s more of an academic question, but it’s still a perfectly fair question.

What country are you from, by the way. Doesn’t have anything to do with anything, just curious.

Granted, as far as the question being academic. No problem with that. Maybe I confused the question with some posts that seem to try to illegitimatize his Presidency. I thought that was something really hitting below the belt. Guess the discussion has veered off much from the topic then.

 

[Dwyer]

She didn’t need any help losing the Election.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Please tell me why you think this is a relevant question. I’m honestly curious. Do you think if Bill Clinton is a punk it somehow excuses Trump?

If I had a dollar for every time a Trump defender did an awkward pivot to, “Well, but Bill Clinton…” even when no one was defending Clinton, I could retire.

Anyway, even though it’s not relevant and I’m not a Democrat, here goes:

-Sanders was too old to be drafted when his number popped up. He also was a conscientious objector.
-Obama was too young to be drafted.
-Hillary Clinton is a woman, and women were not drafted.
-Bill Clinton has no excuse as far as I can tell.

Now, maybe Trump really did have some bone spurs that just happened to surface right around the time his educational deferments ran out and then conveniently disappeared when the war ended. But color me suspicious.

they could have volunteered to serve in the military without being drafted, but didn’t.
you don’t see the hypocrisy? of course not.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

There is an important need here for the Democrats to shift the focus of this Original Post.

It is clear that the Russians were unsuccessful in interfering with our election.
HOWEVER, incidental information has now been revealed that Obama was using classified information AND was “unmasking” American citizens … which is a ten year felony for each count.

AND to make matters worse, Obama at the last minute changed the rules to allow 17 or 18 agencies to have highly classified information … IN ORDER TO DELIBERATELY allow the [basically] gossip to be leaked to the media.

Nunes visited the White House to inform the President and his staff that they had been compromised by Obama operatives who were leaking unmasked transcripts. [And the Democrats are attacking Nunes for trying to restore communications security.]

In addition, right after the election, Mike Rogers, Director of the National Security Agency visited Trump to inform him of the gross irregularities taking place within the Obama Executive Branch.

Trump sent out his famous “wire tap” tweet. BUT the words wire tap were within quotation marks. So clearly Trump knew his offices were being surveilled … regardless if the surveillance was a 1930’s movie wire tap or something more sophisticated.

AND, by being deliberately careless with classified material … by using the Russian ruse … the methods of surveillance were compromised.

So, we are talking about deliberate felonies by the Democrats.

Right now, it’s merely a matter of listing who will be treated to the perp walk. And which Federal prison in which they will be incarcerated. Close to home or someplace out in Kansas … Fort Leavenworth is not so delightful.*

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

they could have volunteered to serve in the military without being drafted, but didn’t.
you don’t see the hypocrisy? of course not.

Don’t try to move the goalposts to defend your poorly thought out, kneejerk “well what about Billl?” response. Failing to respond to a draft is way different than simply not volunteering. No one is obligated to volunteer. You are obligated not to skate out of a draft during war.