Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

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Ridgerunner said:
And the British parliament probably did more to harm Trump than the Russians did to harm either Trump or Clinton. One recalls some of the MPs attempting to ban him from Britain altogether, for all the awful reasons they offered.

Compared to that, Russian hack of DNC headquarters (if they did it) is pretty puny stuff.
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Yes I remember the petition started to ban Trump from visiting Britain.

Remember Obama visiting England before the Brexit vote and giving them his opinion?
 
dvdjs said:
Not surprising that seek to apply a wholly idiosyncratic definition of interference.
At least try to be subtle about shifting the goals posts.
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Didn’t Hillary win the popular vote in spite of her incompetent campaign and scandals?
 
7_Sorrows said:
Yes I remember the petition started to ban Trump from visiting Britain.

Remember Obama visiting England before the Brexit vote and giving them his opinion?
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Sounds like collusion. We must investigate as well as the other Europeanleaders that had nothing but nasty remarks for Trump during the campaign!
Europe interfered with our elections and the evidencr is in every newspaper and video from the campaign of these shameful European leaders interfering in our elections
 
As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so.

A matter of preference of a Presidential candidate of their liking does not constitute interfering. Such stance from foreign countries is quite common, US included.

If the Russians were to meet any of the candidates, that would be quite natural for their ambassador in order to know them better.

However, if they should hack the electoral poll and change the election outcome by dubious means, and if proven then it can make the election null and void but the US should be able to protect their election from such attack.
 
Reuben_J said:
As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so.

A matter of preference of a Presidential candidate of their liking does not constitute interfering. Such stance from foreign countries is quite common, US included.

If the Russians were to meet any of the candidates, that would be quite natural for their ambassador in order to know them better.

However, if they should hack the electoral poll and change the election outcome by dubious means, and if proven then it can make the election null and void but the US should be able to protect their election from such attack.
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Great post, Reuben
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Oh, well, there was Bill Johnston, from Paducah…and oh, here’s Susan Miller from Jacksonville…hm…Larry Rodriguez, from St Paul…

C’mon, you know that’s an unanswerable question.
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So no evidence of actual interference by the Russians.
Anyway, I think we need to define what we mean by “interfere.” Did the Russians literally hack the voting machines to change the vote counts? Doesn’t look that way. At least, no evidence of that. Did the Russians attempt to undermine the Clinton campaign by leaking damaging information about them? Yep, looks that way. Did a lot of Trump campaign members have a lot of close ties to the Kremlin? Absolutely.
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Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate.
 
It has been said that NBC interfered with the election, not the Russians.
Such interference of NBC through fake news in the election is not acceptable.
No one has ever turned up any evidence that the Russians affected the election.
 
starshiptrooper said:
So no evidence of actual interference by the Russians.Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate.
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👍
 
Reuben_J said:
As stated in some of my posts on this, short of altering the election result the Russians could not possibly interfere with the election that would alter the election result even if they tried to do so.
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OK, you know that isn’t true. The election was extremely close. You don’t even have to change anyone’s vote to change the outcome. You only need to change a few voters’ state of residence. Of course the Russians could not change anyone’s residence. I mention that only to illustrate how close the election was. Therefore it only takes a few minds changed to change the outcome.

How are minds changed? By the selective release of embarrassing info. Even true info. Based on what was released, one might conclude that Hillary had all the embarrassing info and thank the Russians for releasing it. Better we know the truth, even if the truth was arrived at by questionable means. However that is the result of selective release. They did not release any comparable embarrassing info on Trump. A careless thinker might conclude that it was because there is no comparably embarrassing info on Trump. But that would be careless thought. When an agent with an agenda (the Russians) has the ability to release only the info that furthers their agenda, they have a strong incentive to do so. The only truly fair way to judge if Hillary’s skeletons are worse than Trump’s skeletons is to open both closets to public inspection. But of course that won’t happen. Which leaves careless thinkers making assumptions about who to vote for. Just seeing the chaos in the government in these first two months, it clearly pleases the Russians. It is not hard to see how this outcome is very much to their liking, and given what we know about the Russians and their history, and what the intelligence agencies have determined about Russian hacking, it is clear to me anyway that the Russians definitely made the difference.
 
starshiptrooper said:
Revealing factual information about Hillary Clinton as the Russians allegedly did is not interfering with the election. If anything, the hackers (whoever they are) deserve thanks for providing the public with relevant information about a major candidate.
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A debt of gratitude for what? The party line is that the revelations were of no influence?
Why be grateful for the dissemination if it was of no influence?
 
7_Sorrows said:
so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do?
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From the little I have read, they infiltrated Breitbart and inforwars with totally fake news about Hiillary. Many people believed the Russian propaganda. I’m sure there were more sites affected by the Russian fake news.
 
Sojourner003 said:
From the little I have read, they infiltrated Breitbart and inforwars with totally fake news about Hiillary. Many people believed the Russian propaganda. I’m sure there were more sites affected by the Russian fake news.
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so Hillary is the victim? :rotfl:
 
7_Sorrows said:
so IF the Russians interfered what damage did they do?
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Well, that depends on your political view. One view is that the damage is we have a government thrown into chaos by a President who does not know how to be a President, making misstep after misstep, we have lost faith in our government, the rule of law, and the electoral process. We have lost the respect of the rest of the world.
 
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