Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

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Manafort-Linked Accounts on Cyprus Raised Red Flag
NBC

LIMASSOL, Cyprus — A bank in Cyprus investigated accounts associated with President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, for possible money-laundering, two banking sources with direct knowledge of his businesses here told NBC News.

Manafort — whose ties to a Russian oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin are under scrutiny — was associated with at least 15 bank accounts and 10 companies on Cyprus, dating back to 2007, the sources said. At least one of those companies was used to receive millions of dollars from a billionaire Putin ally, according to court documents.

Banking sources said some transactions on Manafort-associated accounts raised sufficient concern to trigger an internal investigation at a Cypriot bank into potential money laundering activities. After questions were raised, Manafort closed the accounts, the banking sources said.

Offshore banking in Cyprus is not illegal, and the island has long been known as a hub for moving money in and out of Russia. Several U.S. lawmakers have raised questions about Manafort’s business dealings in Cyprus.
Given that this was investigated, I presume nothing to implicate Manafort was discovered? Even if Manafort engaged in illegal deals as a private person in 2007, the report you posted reveals nothing of any evidence regarding any collusion with Russians on his part to effect the US election in 2016.
 

Trump’s business network reached alleged Russian mobsters

USA TODAY

To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor.

**The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering.
**
Trump told reporters in February: “I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all.”

Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia’s rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors.

Five years earlier, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York.

New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise…
What does this have to do with the US election?

Just because Donald Trump said he did not have any deals with Russia is not at conflict with the fact that he said he has a “great relationship” with Russians. Trump is a wealthy businessman, and as a businessman his company did deals with Russians in regards to real estate in places like New York and Dubai, locations that the report notes. This says nothing about the US election at all. Find others who are in the same business as Trump and they probably do deals with Russians in regards to real estate too in places like New York. And as for any crime connections in regards to some of these Russians, how would Donald Trump a) know what their past connections may have been? and b) if these Russians emigrated to the USA legally (which I assume they did on a permanent basis I presume?), then they must have had their criminal records presumably checked in the immigration process, prior to being able to enter the country to live in America, and they were allowed by immigration officials into the USA?
 
Graham: Nunes May Have ‘Lost His Ability To Lead’ Russia Probe
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Tuesday morning said that House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes’ (R-CA) “objectivity” was in question and encouraged him to share information with the rest of his committee.
Lauer asked Graham if Nunes should recuse himself from any probes involving Trump, such as the committee’s investigation into Russian interference in the U.S. election.
“I think you put his objectivity in question at the very least,” Graham replied.
The senator said that Nunes must share the information he received from a secret source with the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee.
“If he’s not willing to tell the Democrats and Republicans on the committee who he met with and what he was told, then I think he’s lost his ability to lead,” Graham said.
Nunes announced today he wouldn’t be sharing his information or source with the rest of the committee.

Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia
The Trump administration sought to block former acting attorney general Sally Yates from testifying in the House investigation of possible links between Russian officials and Donald Trump’s campaign, according to letters provided to The Washington Post. The effort to keep Yates from testifying has further angered Democrats, who have accused Republicans of trying to damage the inquiry.
According to the letters, the Justice Department notified Yates earlier this month that the administration considers her possible testimony — including on the ouster of former national security adviser Michael Flynn for his contacts with the Russian ambassador — to be off-limits in a congressional hearing because the topics are covered by attorney-client privilege or the presidential communication privilege.
But that same day, the hearing, which also would have included former CIA director John Brennan and former director of national intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., was canceled by the House Intelligence Committee’s chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), and any White House decision on Yates’s testimony became moot.
In his Tuesday briefing, press secretary Sean Spicer said that the White House did not weigh in on whether Yates could testify. “To suggest in any way, shape or form that we stood in the way of that is 100 percent false,” he said.
Nunes has said he canceled the hearing to first hear from FBI Director James B. Comey in a classified setting. That session was also canceled.
Devin Nunes Should Step Down as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee
Let’s begin with two assertions, both of which should be inarguable. First, no one in Washington is entitled to any position of power or responsibility. Second, the greater the power or responsibility, the more integrity, character, and — crucially — competence we should expect from our public officials. Or, to put it plainly, to whom much is given, much is required.
By that standard, why is Devin Nunes still chairman of the House Intelligence Committee?
Enter Devin Nunes. After first saying that he believed Trump’s tweeted allegations were “wrong” on March 22, he conducted a short press conference on White House grounds to declare that he’d obtained documents indicating that White House officials (and maybe even the president) had been monitored as part of relatively routine surveillance of foreign officials.
Oddly, however, he’d apparently rushed to the White House to present this evidence without sharing it with members of his own committee. This was a breach of protocol, but not on its face a firing offense. Nunes apologized, and the storm seemed set to pass.
Then the story got stranger still. Yesterday Nunes acknowledged that he traveled to the White House before his March 22 press conference to review secret documents in the White House’s possession, then used the contents of those documents to “brief” the president and the press. In other words, the White House appeared to be using Nunes to brief itself. Rather than state its own case with its own evidence, it used Nunes to make it appear as if external investigation had at least partially validated Trump’s tweets.
Just at the time when the nation desperately needs adults to step forward who can give the public confidence that they not only understand the stakes of the Russia investigation, they also can be entrusted to conduct that investigation in good faith, Nunes unnecessarily poured gasoline on an already-raging fire. The American body politic is awash in conspiracy theories, mistrust, and wild claims of espionage and criminality. It needs leaders. It needs competence. It needs integrity.
Are you unconvinced? Let’s indulge in the simplest exercise in political integrity. If the roles were reversed, what would you argue? If Adam Schiff was the chairman, Hillary Clinton was president, and Schiff was secretly meeting at the White House for solo briefings then presenting that same “evidence” to the press as if he’d discovered it, you’d want him to step down. And you’d be right.
 
One news commentator suggested that Nunes has purposely derailed the House Intelligence Committee to put it out of commission since it was getting too close to the truth.

As Pontius Pilate said, “What is truth?”
 

Trump’s business network reached alleged Russian mobsters

USA TODAY

To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor.

**The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering.
**
Trump told reporters in February: “I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all.”

Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia’s rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors.

Five years earlier, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York.

New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise…
Lots of “could be” and “alleged” and of course the unnamed source!!!
 

Trump’s business network reached alleged Russian mobsters

USA TODAY

To expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime, according to a USA TODAY review of court cases, government and legal documents and an interview with a former federal prosecutor.

**The president and his companies have been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering.
**
Trump told reporters in February: “I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all.”

Yet in 2013, after Trump addressed potential investors in Moscow, he bragged to Real Estate Weekly about his access to Russia’s rich and powerful. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump said, referring to Russians who made fortunes when former Soviet state enterprises were sold to private investors.

Five years earlier, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. told Russian media while in Moscow that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets" in places like Dubai and Trump SoHo and elsewhere in New York.

New York City real estate broker Dolly Lenz told USA TODAY she sold about 65 condos in Trump World at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan to Russian investors, many of whom sought personal meetings with Trump for his business expertise…
You realize that the UN building itself is a scam … it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag.
 
You realize that the UN building itself is a scam … it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag.
Have you ever been there? It’s prime.
 
You realize that the UN building itself is a scam … it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag.
lol please don’t leave me holding waterfront Manhattan real estate, there’s no demand for it!
 
You realize that the UN building itself is a scam … it was subsidized by the Rockefeller family to create phoney use of some swampy real estate nobody wanted. So, when the UN moves to Cyprus, there will be no demand for the real estate and the lease holders will be left holding the bag.
And as my mom (an ardent Republican) pointed out, the Kennedys made their wealth on boot-legging.

Which reminds me when I moved down south and joined my new OCDS (secular Carmelite) group and we went out to dinner I saw a few ordering wine. I was a bit astonished and said that the group up north doesn’t drink. To which one of the men replied, “Are you sure they’re Catholic?”
 
Should I just give up hope on getting any clarification of what you meant when you said I was using “different criteria” a few pages back?

I’m sorry to be a bit of a bulldog about this, but I kind of hit my limit today with people disingenuously accusing me of being a Clinton supporter when A) I’m not B) I wasn’t talking about Clinton in the first place and C) even if I was, it would have nothing to do with what I actually said.

If you’re going to take potshots, either have the courage to defend them or the grace to withdraw them.
You realize that the UN building itself is a scam …
I’m going to go ahead and assume the lack of response is an admission that you implying I’m somehow a hypocrite was a baseless, partisan, paint-by-numbers response, since you appear to be unable or unwilling to explain what these “different criteria” are with anything other than a terse “got it.”

In the future, please don’t throw shade that you’re not willing to defend. I’m happy to have a discussion all day, but I’m not a fan of drive by accusations.

I know I’m perhaps a little over invested in this exchange, but I’ve really hit my limit with non-sequitur responses that just baselessly accuse someone of supporting (insert Democratic Party politician here) whenever something critical of Donald Trump comes up. It really is a cancer around here.
 
I’m going to go ahead and assume the lack of response is an admission that you implying I’m somehow a hypocrite was a baseless, partisan, paint-by-numbers response, since you appear to be unable or unwilling to explain what these “different criteria” are with anything other than a terse “got it.”

In the future, please don’t throw shade that you’re not willing to defend. I’m happy to have a discussion all day, but I’m not a fan of drive by accusations.

I know I’m perhaps a little over invested in this exchange, but I’ve really hit my limit with non-sequitur responses that just baselessly accuse someone of supporting (insert Democratic Party politician here) whenever something critical of Donald Trump comes up. It really is a cancer around here.
Once McCarthyism really sets in and people right and left are getting labelled as anti-democracy Russian-collaborators, I’m thinking there will be fewer and fewer CAFers jumping up to defend Trump no matter what.

In fact my thinking is that during the primaries most CAFers planning to vote Republican (and pro-life) were in favor of other candidates (like Santorum or Cruz) and actually pretty much against Trump, until he became it.
 
**
Bank that Kushner met with paid Russian intelligence agent’s legal tab**

CNN

As federal prosecutors in New York prepared their case against a man accused of covertly working for Russian intelligence two years ago, they began raising questions about an unidentified “third party” paying the defendant’s legal bills.

The defendant’s benefactor turned out to be** VneshEconomBank, the same financial institution at the center of a recent controversy over its chairman’s meeting with Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and one of his top White House advisers.**
On the one it hand it should be no surprise that bank, also known as VEB, was paying for Evgeny Buryakov’s legal defense – Buryakov was one of its employees, after all.

But what made the matter more complicated was what Buryakov was charged with illegally gathering intelligence on behalf of the Russian government and the Russian government owned the bank that provided his cover.

Prosecutors were concerned about a potential conflict in which the interests of the entity paying the bill may outweigh the interests of the defendant, resulting in an unfair trial and perhaps creating the basis for an appeal. The case was closely watched at the time by a top official at the bank and representatives of the Russian embassy in New York, one lawyer familiar with the matter told CNN.

The case offers a view into the murky world of Russian intelligence gathering at a time when that country’s efforts – and their potential intersection with the American political process – are under intense scrutiny…

…Following all the legal wrangling, Buryakov pleaded guilty in March 2016 to conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation in the US. He was sentenced to two and half years in federal prison.

Prosecutors said Buryakov used his cover as a bank employee to work for Russia’s SVR, the country’s version of the CIA.
 
What does this have to do with the US election?

Just because Donald Trump said he did not have any deals with Russia is not at conflict with the fact that he said he has a “great relationship” with Russians. Trump is a wealthy businessman, and as a businessman his company did deals with Russians in regards to real estate in places like New York and Dubai, locations that the report notes. This says nothing about the US election at all. Find others who are in the same business as Trump and they probably do deals with Russians in regards to real estate too in places like New York. And as for any crime connections in regards to some of these Russians, how would Donald Trump a) know what their past connections may have been? and b) if these Russians emigrated to the USA legally (which I assume they did on a permanent basis I presume?), then they must have had their criminal records presumably checked in the immigration process, prior to being able to enter the country to live in America, and they were allowed by immigration officials into the USA?
True enough.

Big business may be global in nature and thus dealing with businessmen of different nationalities is not uncommon. Most likely business is conducted differently compared to how one goes about in discharging official government duty. Besides, one may not have the mechanism to check your business partners that the government has.

So yes, it can be two different things.
 
Have you ever been there? It’s prime.
So it’s not undesirable swampland as the poster claimed.
I used to live near some land that no one would build on because the soil was such that it would have cost 2 or 3 times as much to build a structure on than normal. For over 40 years, no one built there.

Then with the housing market bubble, it became cost-effective to build on and so someone did.

The UN building may well have been built on land which would have been too expensive to build on in the normal way of things, but with the UN or the government funding the construction, was viable. IOW, the government as usual got a bad deal.

And now that the building has been built, the property is, many decades and a huge increase in population and housing prices later, prime real estate.

So everyone can be right and be happy 🙂
 
**
Bank that Kushner met with paid Russian intelligence agent’s legal tab**

CNN

As federal prosecutors in New York prepared their case against a man accused of covertly working for Russian intelligence two years ago, they began raising questions about an unidentified “third party” paying the defendant’s legal bills.

The defendant’s benefactor turned out to be** VneshEconomBank, the same financial institution at the center of a recent controversy over its chairman’s meeting with Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and one of his top White House advisers.**
On the one it hand it should be no surprise that bank, also known as VEB, was paying for Evgeny Buryakov’s legal defense – Buryakov was one of its employees, after all.

But what made the matter more complicated was what Buryakov was charged with illegally gathering intelligence on behalf of the Russian government and the Russian government owned the bank that provided his cover.

Prosecutors were concerned about a potential conflict in which the interests of the entity paying the bill may outweigh the interests of the defendant, resulting in an unfair trial and perhaps creating the basis for an appeal. The case was closely watched at the time by a top official at the bank and representatives of the Russian embassy in New York, one lawyer familiar with the matter told CNN.

The case offers a view into the murky world of Russian intelligence gathering at a time when that country’s efforts – and their potential intersection with the American political process – are under intense scrutiny…

…Following all the legal wrangling, Buryakov pleaded guilty in March 2016 to conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation in the US. He was sentenced to two and half years in federal prison.

Prosecutors said Buryakov used his cover as a bank employee to work for Russia’s SVR, the country’s version of the CIA.
And the store where I buy bandaids sells medical supplies to the PP down the street. So what?
 
=lynnvinc;14565157]Once McCarthyism really sets in and people right and left are getting labelled as anti-democracy Russian-collaborators, I’m thinking there will be fewer and fewer CAFers jumping up to defend Trump no matter what.
Yes, the left can’t seem to decide if I am a Nazi or a Russian spy. Pretty hard to be both at the same time.

But that’s going to affect how I view Donald Trump.

As far as Russia goes, there is no evidence at all that they affected this election. It’s actually a good gig for the Democrats because Russians are always trying to hack into our systems.

Problem with this is the implication was they were hacking voting machines. Not possible since they are not on-line.
In fact my thinking is that during the primaries most CAFers planning to vote Republican (and pro-life) were in favor of other candidates (like Santorum or Cruz) and actually pretty much against Trump, until he became it.
We did everything we could to stop Trump from getting nominated.
 
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