Did "today" mean today?

[Cristian_B]

Yes, Cristian perhaps I am familiar. For I was a Protestant much longer than I have been a Catholic. (I joke with Catholics that I’ve forgotten more about Protestant beliefs than they will ever know!)

What kind of Protestant?

Please let me ask you these two questions related to the words of our Lord and Savior that you quoted:

1. 
   *]Do you believe that Jesus is now, and always was, both the Son of God and a son of a woman?

1. 
   Jesus wasn’t always the son of a woman, but He always was the Son of God. God and the Son existed even before creation, therefore Jesus was, is and will be the Son of God; but man and woman did not exist before Creation, so He couldn’t have been son of man before Creation. He is the same always, but that’s a different question. When saying ‘Son of man’ we understand in the flesh, but I doubt He was always in the flesh. Do you believe He was always in the flesh?
   

   1. 
      *]Do you believe the Son of God is now, and always was, omnipresent (or everywhere there)?

   1. 
      No, I do not believe God (or His Son, or His Spirit) is everywhere. I believe He can be everywhere but He is not. If He is everywhere, how are we special? I believe God sees all, just as it is written in the Bible: The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good. ~Proverbs 15:3 But there is a difference seeing everything and being in all places. If He is everywhere, then what is the difference between the righteous and the wicked? He sees the righteous and the wicked, but He is with the righteous and He is not with the wicked. God is willing to be with everyone, but if they abandon Him, so does God. If they do not want Him to be with them, how can He be with them against their will? If they repent, He will come back to them, but He isn’t with everyone. Also, if there is a house of wicked people: is God there? He sees what happens there, but that doesn’t mean He is there. God can be everywhere, but that doesn’t mean He is. God is always able to help you. God is always able to come to you. What’s the difference between a saved and a lost then? A saved is one that is with God and the lost is one that is not. If God is everywhere, then He is with everyone, but by definition a lost person is someone that is not with God. So is this compatible? By definition, everywhere means ‘in every place’, or ‘all places’. Is He in the heart of the saved and in the heart of the wicked as well? Is He at the right of the righteous and at the right of the wicked as well to help them?
      
      So Christians mixed up the omnipresence thing. One thing is that He sees all, and another completely different thing is for Him to be there. He can be everywhere, but He is not; but He sees everything. Even though He is not there, He is able to help. But we Christians know God is with us. So if He is omnipresent, is God with them as well? He sees them (the wicked), but that doesn’t mean He is in their hearts. So He sees all but He isn’t absolutely everywhere, because He chose not to, of course.

 

[tonyg]

No, an impossibility

NOT UNTIL Easter Sunday were the gates of heaven unlocked.

Love and prayers,

Pat

You forget my friend, Nothing is impossible for God! Jesus is the Son of God, God and His Son are One. So it is possible.

 

[spockrates]

What kind of Protestant?

I asked you first!

Jesus wasn’t always the son of a woman, but He always was the Son of God. God and the Son existed even before creation, therefore Jesus was, is and will be the Son of God; but man and woman did not exist before Creation, so He couldn’t have been son of man before Creation. He is the same always, but that’s a different question. When saying ‘Son of man’ we understand in the flesh, but I doubt He was always in the flesh. Do you believe He was always in the flesh?

No; at least I see no indication that He always was in the flesh. However, that He always was God, I do see indications of in Sacred Scripture.

No, I do not believe God (or His Son, or His Spirit) is everywhere. I believe He can be everywhere but He is not. If He is everywhere, how are we special? I believe God sees all, just as it is written in the Bible: The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good. ~Proverbs 15:3 But there is a difference seeing everything and being in all places. If He is everywhere, then what is the difference between the righteous and the wicked? He sees the righteous and the wicked, but He is with the righteous and He is not with the wicked. God is willing to be with everyone, but if they abandon Him, so does God. If they do not want Him to be with them, how can He be with them against their will? If they repent, He will come back to them, but He isn’t with everyone. Also, if there is a house of wicked people: is God there? He sees what happens there, but that doesn’t mean He is there. God can be everywhere, but that doesn’t mean He is. God is always able to help you. God is always able to come to you. What’s the difference between a saved and a lost then? A saved is one that is with God and the lost is one that is not. If God is everywhere, then He is with everyone, but by definition a lost person is someone that is not with God. So is this compatible? By definition, everywhere means ‘in every place’, or ‘all places’. Is He in the heart of the saved and in the heart of the wicked as well? Is He at the right of the righteous and at the right of the wicked as well to help them?

So Christians mixed up the omnipresence thing. One thing is that He sees all, and another completely different thing is for Him to be there. He can be everywhere, but He is not; but He sees everything. Even though He is not there, He is able to help. But we Christians know God is with us. So if He is omnipresent, is God with them as well? He sees them (the wicked), but that doesn’t mean He is in their hearts. So He sees all but He isn’t absolutely everywhere, because He chose not to, of course.

Sounds reasonable to me. Omnipresence is more omni-awareness and perhaps also omni-activeness. The Son of God is more likely actively present always and everywhere than locationally present always and everywhere.



That being the likely case, would you say it is possible that the Son of God was omnipresent in Heaven at the time He told Mary Magdalen His physical body had not yet ascended into Heaven?

 

[Cristian_B]

I asked you first!

I’m a Seventh Day Adventist. Now, what kind of Protestant were you?

No; at least I see no indication that He always was in the flesh. However, that He always was God, I do see indications of in Sacred Scripture.

I agree with that.

Sounds reasonable to me. Omnipresence is more omni-awareness and perhaps also omni-activeness. The Son of God is more likely actively present always and everywhere than locationally present always and everywhere.

It depends on what do you understand by ‘present’. In our case, perhaps Jesus was aware of what happened in Paradise but He wasn’t in Paradise (i.e.: Heaven).

That being the likely case, would you say it is possible that the Son of God was omnipresent in Heaven at the time He told Mary Magdalen His physical body had not yet ascended into Heaven?

No, I do not. One thing I know is that God is not and irrational or illogical Being, and it is very unlikely for Him to contradict Himself. If He said He isn’t with the Father (didn’t ascend), how is He going to be with the Father? There is a contradiction here, so no, Jesus wasn’t in Heaven and with Father.

 

[tonyg]

Do you refer to the following passage?And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, * ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.*’” Having said this, He breathed His last.

~Luke 23:46 NKJV

Those are the words of Jesus; I believe them to be true.

 

[Cristian_B]

Those are the words of Jesus; I believe them to be true.

Are you also referring to Ecclesiastes 12:7?
…and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
~Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV

 

[tonyg]

Are you also referring to Ecclesiastes 12:7?
…and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
~Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV

No, but they are also true of humanity.

 

[Cristian_B]

No, but they are also true of humanity.

Okay then. Jesus gave His spirit to God. Now I have a question: what do you think of the following passage?
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
~Job 27:3 KJV
Why is the spirit in one’s nostrils? What do you think it means?

 

[tonyg]

Okay then. Jesus gave His spirit to God. Now I have a question: what do you think of the following passage?
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
~Job 27:3 KJV
Why is the spirit in one’s nostrils? What do you think it means?

Through the nostrils we take in air; we take in life. God breathed the breath of life into Adam. The Spirit of God is the life within us.

 

[Cristian_B]

Through the nostrils we take in air; we take in life. God breathed the breath of life into Adam. The Spirit of God is the life within us.

So … is there any hint that the ‘life’ (or breath, because it’s in the nostrils) within us has conscience? Or that it can think?

 

[spockrates]

I’m a Seventh Day Adventist. Now, what kind of Protestant were you?

Good to meet you! I’ve known three Seventh Day Adventists (you included) and all three seemed sincere and friendly to me.



I’ve attended various denominations ranging from Fundamentalist Baptist to Evangelical Presbyterian. Why do you ask?

 

[Cristian_B]

Good to meet you! I’ve known three Seventh Day Adventists (you included) and all three seemed sincere and friendly to me.



I’ve attended various denominations ranging from Fundamentalist Baptist to Evangelical Presbyterian. Why do you ask?

Curiosity, my friend. It’s unstoppable … or at least unstoppable for us (because everything is possible with God).

 

[spockrates]

I agree with that.

Great minds think alike!

It depends on what do you understand by ‘present’. In our case, perhaps Jesus was aware of what happened in Paradise but He wasn’t in Paradise (i.e.: Heaven).

Then please let me consider your meaning more carefully by asking you this: Are you saying that (1) God the Father and God the Holy Spirit were in heaven when Jesus walked the earth, but God the Son was not? Or are you saying that (2) the God, in any person, is never *in *any place, but always is omnipresent? (By (2) I mean to ask if you are saying that all three persons of the God always are present, in the sense that they always are aware and always are active everywhere, but they *never *are present in the sense that they are *locationally *everywhere.)

 

[spockrates]

Curiosity, my friend. It’s unstoppable … or at least unstoppable for us (because everything is possible with God).

When you say everything, do you mean everything? Or is there anything that God cannot do?

 

[spockrates]

… No, I do not. One thing I know is that God is not and irrational or illogical Being, and it is very unlikely for Him to contradict Himself. If He said He isn’t with the Father (didn’t ascend), how is He going to be with the Father? There is a contradiction here, so no, Jesus wasn’t in Heaven and with Father.

Yes, I agree that God is never illogical, Cristian, but you and I are capable of misunderstanding Him. Do you think it is possible that this is actually not a real contradiction but merely an apparent one?

 

[Cristian_B]

When you say everything, do you mean everything? Or is there anything that God cannot do?

Contradict Himself.

 

[Cristian_B]

Then please let me consider your meaning more carefully by asking you this: Are you saying that (1) God the Father and God the Holy Spirit were in heaven when Jesus walked the earth, but God the Son was not? Or are you saying that (2) the God, in any person, is never *in *any place, but always is omnipresent? (By (2) I mean to ask if you are saying that all three persons of the God always are present, in the sense that they always are aware and always are active everywhere, but they *never *are present in the sense that they are *locationally *everywhere.)

(1) Yes. If Jesus was always on earth* and* in Heaven, then what’s the difference? If the Spirit was on earth and in Heaven, then why did He have to come down if He was already there? For someone to be sent somewhere, logically it means that that person isn’t where he is sent. If the Holy Spirit is sent to us (on earth) it means that it actually isn’t on earth.
(2)I don’t know.

 

[spockrates]

Contradict Himself.

Agreed, Cristian. I suppose the writer of Hebrews agrees with us too, for he writes:

… it is impossible for God to lie …

(Hebrews 6:18)

And what better way for the God of Truth and Wisdom to contradict Himself than to tell a lie? So when a messenger of our God says,

“… nothing is impossible with God.”

(Luke 6:18)

we know that nothing cannot possibly mean nothing, for *something *is impossible for God–it is impossible for God to lie. And when the Jesus Christ says,

“… with God all things are possible.”

(Matthew 19:26)

we know that all does not mean all, for *something *is impossible for God–it is impossible for God to contradict Himself by saying, thinking, or doing what is evil.

And when you say,

“…everything is possible with God.”

we know that everything does not mean everything, for not everythingis possible for God–it is not possible for God to do anything that would make God less than God is.

 

[spockrates]

So we find that nothing does not mean nothing, and all does not mean all, and everything does not mean everything. When we try to take the words in a rigidly literal sense, rather than grasping the meaning, it slips through our fingers like water. If I am to get hold of the truth, instead of merely focusing on what was said, I need to focus on what was intended. need to consider what the angel, and Jesus, and you actually meant. Right?

 

[Cristian_B]

So we find that nothing does not mean nothing, and all does not mean all, and everything does not mean everything. When we try to take the words in a rigidly literal sense, rather than grasping the meaning, it slips through our fingers like water. If I am to get hold of the truth, instead of merely focusing on what was said, I need to focus on what was intended. need to consider what the angel, and Jesus, and you actually meant. Right?

Right.​

But consider that He did everything … including writing the laws of logic. Or is it that they existed before God? If they did it, that would go against the teaching of Christianity. But if God existed before those laws and the universe itself, we say that He wrote them. Or is it that god is object to something or that the laws existed before God? If they existed before God who created them? And if they came into existence simultaneously, then why? So God created the laws of logic.

So what if He decides to erase them?

Food for thought. This blows your mind … imagining what would it be like without the laws of logic. Now I gave you something to think about while you’re in bed trying to sleep.

Happy thinking and happy Passover!​

God bless you and your family and your house, because what he blesses will be blessed forever* (1 Chronicles 17:27)!

*Unless He curses it again, but let’s don’t give Him reasons to curse our houses.