Different spiritualities?

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Uxor said:
So you’re denying that Christ instituted the Traditional Mass.
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Oh my goodness. Are you referring to THE Mass? If yes, I would agree. If you mean Traditional Mass as in the TLM, I’d be stunned. Of course Kirk’s not going to refer to the Mass Christ instituted as the Traditional Mass. Who does? It sounds more like you’re trying to “catch” Kirk. He believes (if I may Kirk) in the Mass Christ instituted at the Last Supper. It is a Tradition of our Church. In fact it’s where we experience the source and summit of our Faith and, barring the formats that have been in existence over the centuries, it is the same Mass as the original.
 
bear06 said:
Oh my goodness. Are you referring to THE Mass? If yes, I would agree. If you mean Traditional Mass as in the TLM, I’d be stunned. Of course Kirk’s not going to refer to the Mass Christ instituted as the Traditional Mass. Who does? It sounds more like you’re trying to “catch” Kirk. He believes (if I may Kirk) in the Mass Christ instituted at the Last Supper. It is a Tradition of our Church. In fact it’s where we experience the source and summit of our Faith and, barring the formats that have been in existence over the centuries, it is the same Mass as the original.
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That’s it, thanks, Bear. AND, as a subset, I happen to also believe in the missal of the Roman Rite, whether it is the Pian or the Pauline. I also believe in the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
 
bear06 said:
Oh my goodness. Are you referring to THE Mass? If yes, I would agree. If you mean Traditional Mass as in the TLM, I’d be stunned. Of course Kirk’s not going to refer to the Mass Christ instituted as the Traditional Mass. Who does? It sounds more like you’re trying to “catch” Kirk. He believes (if I may Kirk) in the Mass Christ instituted at the Last Supper. It is a Tradition of our Church. In fact it’s where we experience the source and summit of our Faith and, barring the formats that have been in existence over the centuries, it is the same Mass as the original.
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What Mass was that Christ instituted at the Last Supper? You are talking two different Masses.
 
Uxor said:
And what Mass is that?
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The Mass. It has been adapted in many ways in different times. It was adapted by St. Gregory the Great, and that adaptation was modified in many different ways throughout history, including ONE Latin version known as the Tridentine. It was also adapted into the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which I celebrate every week. Neither the Tridentine nor the Divine Liturgy are identical to the rites practiced by the Apostles, but both are derived from them, as is the Pauline Rite used today in the Latin Church.

Peace and God bless!
 
Uxor said:
What Mass was that Christ instituted at the Last Supper? You are talking two different Masses.
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Uh, no, I’m not. Maybe it would help if you’d share which Mass you are talking about. Christ instituted the Mass of all ages.

Do you somehow think the Mass of Justin Martyr is a different Mass than the one Christ instituted?
sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id42.html
 
Uxor said:
The Tridentine Mass will never be suppressed…Christ said the Gates of Hell will not prevail.
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Actually, the Mass has been suppressed in many countries many times. But you are right, the gates of Hell will not prevail. However, I think a broader vision is needed. Do you think Jesus had a tridentine Mass in the Upper room? Do you think He had a golden cup? do you think He handed bread to the disciples, or put it on the tongue? The miracle is in the Presence, not the form. The Byzantine Mass is also beautiful, and approved by Rome. You ought to consider visiting!
 
bear06 said:
Uh, no, I’m not. Maybe it would help if you’d share which Mass you are talking about. Christ instituted the Mass of all ages.

Do you somehow think the Mass of Justin Martyr is a different Mass than the one Christ instituted?
sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id42.html
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When you reference a site could you please present an accurate reliable source other than a left radical site please…thanks.
 
Uxor said:
When you reference a site could you please present an accurate reliable source other than a left radical site please…thanks.
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Oh, please, I doubt Bear could FIND a leftist radical site, except to point out it’s errors. Did you check the Catholic Encyclopedia link I gave you?
 
guanophore said:
Actually, the Mass has been suppressed in many countries many times. But you are right, the gates of Hell will not prevail. However, I think a broader vision is needed. Do you think Jesus had a tridentine Mass in the Upper room? Do you think He had a golden cup? do you think He handed bread to the disciples, or put it on the tongue? The miracle is in the Presence, not the form. The Byzantine Mass is also beautiful, and approved by Rome. You ought to consider visiting!
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I’m not saying your Mass is invalid, the Church as far as I know has never said that. I believe the words in the Core of the Canon are Christ’s words in the Traditional Mass. I believe Christ put it on the tongue.
 
Ghosty said:
The Mass. It has been adapted in many ways in different times. It was adapted by St. Gregory the Great, and that adaptation was modified in many different ways throughout history, including ONE Latin version known as the Tridentine. It was also adapted into the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which I celebrate every week. Neither the Tridentine nor the Divine Liturgy are identical to the rites practiced by the Apostles, but both are derived from them, as is the Pauline Rite used today in the Latin Church.

Peace and God bless!
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What about the essential core?
 
Uxor said:
I’m not saying your Mass is invalid, the Church as far as I know has never said that. I believe the words in the Core of the Canon are Christ’s words in the Traditional Mass. I believe Christ put it on the tongue.
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When you say the core of the Canon, do you mean the words of consecration? “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood?”

And why do you believe that Christ placed the Sacrament on the disciples’ tongue?
 
JKirkLVNV said:
When you say the core of the Canon, do you mean the words of consecration? “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood?”

And why do you believe that Christ placed the Sacrament on the disciples’ tongue?
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Yes…the words of Consecration.

Just things I’ve read that have led me to believe that.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Oh, please, I doubt Bear could FIND a leftist radical site, except to point out it’s errors. Did you check the Catholic Encyclopedia link I gave you?
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:rotfl: Oh my goodness. It’s hard to type when I’m laughing so much.

Uxor, Bill Grossklas who runs the site I quoted from is a traditionalist and former SSPXer. Hardly a leftist. You might want to do some research before you level charges. I don’t know too many leftist that support the Tridentine Mass (although, surprisingly, I have heard of a few). This isn’t the first time you’ve done this.

BTW, if you’ll notice, it was Justin Martyr that the author of the article was quoting. Is JM a leftist too?:eek: Mike Aquilina who is published by OSV is also hardly a leftist. Can you honestly tell me that you know any of the above to be a leftist? This rather sounds like slander and detraction to sway people from actually studying what Justin Martyr said about the Mass.

As far as the Mass of all ages…Isn’t the Mass instituted at the Last Supper the Mass of all ages? Again, it wasn’t the TLM.
 
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