Really? Why?I’m not saying your Mass is invalid, the Church as far as I know has never said that. I believe the words in the Core of the Canon are Christ’s words in the Traditional Mass. I believe Christ put it on the tongue.
Where’s the hogwash? This man was SSPX for many years. Are you? You can “lol” all you want but you have yet to prove why you think Bill Grossklas is leftist. He’s definitely not fond of the SSPX’s mentality. This makes him a leftist? Please.I want you to know I went by the site you say is not leftist again…Here is some of what they had to say…ROTFL
Without permission, Lefebvre established his first seminary in Econe, Switzerland. Also known is that:
at one of the Society schools, girls were told that it was a mortal sin to have any lace on their underwear
in a sermon, people were told not to vote in elections and that it was wrong for women to drive cars
a student at the Society high school in St. Mary’s, Kansas, was kicked out of school simply because he had the picture of a girl, also a student, in his wallet although the two had only written to each other;
about 1987 the Society began to openly display an anti-American attitude - condemning the nature and form of our government;
children are told, without distinction, to always obey priests and nuns even if it conflicts with the proper wishes of their parents;
To further show the anti-Catholic nature of the Society, one example should suffice
What a bunch of “hogwash” And this is where you get your info at regarding the Traditional Mass? Talk about wacky! LOL!!!
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This was not the consecrated bread, though. this was during the Passover meal, when the disciples were asking Him who would betray Him. We know this because Jesus dipped the bread in the sop before handing it to him. Also, Judas, as “a devil” was excused before the consecration. this is why those who are not believers are not admitted to communion.The one disciple explicitly described as touching the bread was the one who betrayed Him.
What exactly are you saying? The Tridentine Mass is just a lie, it won’t be said for all ages, it will be banished, the gates of hell will prevail in ending it?I have heard that. I also heard that WW I was the “war to end all wars”. Did that make it so?
Actually, it’s already a misnomer because the Tridentine Mass format wasn’t used in the early Church so it can’t be the Mass for ALL ages. It was THE Mass. Besides that, you’re overreacting. guanophore never said it was a lie nor that the gates of hell have prevailed anywhere. You’re reading things into it. Did someone say along the way that if the Tridentine Mass wasn’t said always that the gates of hell would have prevailed? I haven’t seen it. It certainly doesn’t say it in Quo Primum. In fact, hell isn’t even mentioned. While I doubt the Tridentine will be revoked and hope it’s not, the Tridentine and gates of hell aren’t usually mentioned in Church teaching together.What exactly are you saying? The Tridentine Mass is just a lie, it won’t be said for all ages, it will be banished, the gates of hell will prevail in ending it?
When did I call it the Last Supper? I said it was instituted by Christ AT THE LAST SUPPER. Can you speak for yourself, I clearly understand what others have posted. I think I responded to your statement the Mass of All Ages. Kirk knew what Mass I was referring to again. That is an attack??..I know than what you have against the Tridentine Mass…I take it as an attack against Christ, His Church for you to say…that the Traditional/Traditional Mass was not instituted by Christ at the Last Supper, that is where it all began… The Mass is referred to as the Sacrament, the Sacrifice. I don’t understand all this separation from the Core of the Cannon unless you think it was devised by man and not God. You practically had a heart heart when you saw the words Tridentine Mass…geeshWell, your guess would be wrong. It wasn’t the Tridentine or the Novus Ordo in format. If you read my very first post I said:
What axe does he have to grind. His goal is to prevent someone from falling into the SSPX schism. This is a bad thing? Please.
Who, besides you, calls the Last Supper the Traditional Mass? The TLM is often referred to as the Traditional Mass, not the Last Supper. We asked you if you were speaking of the TLM or THE Mass and you didn’t answer before you went on the attack.
And please, provide some quotes from me where I said that the Novus Ordo was the Mass at the Last Supper but the Tridentine wasn’t? Neither* format *was at the Last Supper. As you have managed to correctly state, the core of the Canon is in all of the Roman rite. Where did I say otherwise? You seem to want us to be pit one Mass against another which we wouldn’t do.
He could of said Take This and put it on their tongue. A mother gives her child a spoon full of cough syrup and what does she…take this.Really? Why?
Mark 14:22
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is my body.
Why would He need to tell them to “take” if He had already put it on the tongue? They would have already received it!
What do you think Christ was talking about? This is even meantioned in the Old Testament about the Daily Sacrifice. I think Hell would try and stop the Daily Sacrifice, nothing else. This is at the heart of our beliefs and the Church. And you can already see this in the N.O parishes that are being sold in the US and Europe. The only Mass that is not being stopped is the Tridentine Mass it is exploding…people are in a waiting line to get into their semanaries…Actually, it’s already a misnomer because the Tridentine Mass format wasn’t used in the early Church so it can’t be the Mass for ALL ages. It was THE Mass. Besides that, you’re overreacting. guanophore never said it was a lie nor that the gates of hell have prevailed anywhere. You’re reading things into it. Did someone say along the way that if the Tridentine Mass wasn’t said always that the gates of hell would have prevailed? I haven’t seen it. It certainly doesn’t say it in Quo Primum. In fact, hell isn’t even mentioned. While I doubt the Tridentine will be revoked and hope it’s not, the Tridentine and gates of hell aren’t usually mentioned in Church teaching together.
Why the separation of the word Traditional… certainly not modern because Christ instituted this sacrament and it was passed down…Are we playing a game of “if I say it often enough it’ll be true”? You keep talking about something I have against the Tridentine. Would you mind telling me what it is? It might be nice if I knew.:whacky: BTW, if you read back, I didn’t say you called it the Last Supper. I said you called it the Traditional Mass. Maybe it would be a little clearer to you if I said "Who else besides you calls the Mass instituted at the Last Supper the Traditional Mass? It was THE Mass.
I think you are right about the ritual meal. Here are the elements in the gospel:The language would almost certainly have been Hebrew, certainly we know that Psalms were sung and these would not have been in Aramaic, which was the vernacular (we think). Jesus would have used a Jewish kiddush cup, which was elaborate and made of precious metals. Depending on their financial resources, either silver or gold. I strongly suspect that bread and wine were not the only food present. The Last Supper would have been a ritual evening meal. Modern Jews traditionally start with soup. I could quite possibly have been a Passover meal, in which case there would have been eggs and bitter herbs and the other elements of the meal. So the bread would have been consumed as the staple. However we don’t know that for sure.
So basically it’s not I who is against the Tridentine. It’s you who is against the Novus Ordo. We have a Daily Sacrifice. If we don’t have one in a certain area then there is neither a Tridentine or a Novus Ordo or there would be. Right?What do you think Christ was talking about? This is even meantioned in the Old Testament about the Daily Sacrifice. I think Hell would try and stop the Daily Sacrifice, nothing else. This is at the heart of our beliefs and the Church. And you can already see this in the N.O parishes that are being sold in the US and Europe. The only Mass that is not being stopped is the Tridentine Mass it is exploding…people are in a waiting line to get into their semanaries…
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
All Masses are Traditional. The Mass is a Tradition/Truth of our Church. What I asked is who calls the Mass at the Last Supper the Traditional Mass? What just about every one here has said is that we Catholics don’t say that Christ instituted the “Traditional Mass”. We say that He instituted THE Mass. Got it?Why the separation of the word Traditional… certainly not modern because Christ instituted this sacrament and it was passed down…
I’ve never said I was against the Novus Ordo.So basically it’s not I who is against the Tridentine. It’s you who is against the Novus Ordo. We have a Daily Sacrifice. If we don’t have one in a certain area then there is neither a Tridentine or a Novus Ordo or there would be. Right?
And, I don’t think that Our Lord was talking about the Tridentine Mass when he said:
You really must go to the Greek before making that kind of point. I read it as referring to the cup, but in English we don’t normally use “divide” of a fluid. This is the sort of thing that gets confused in translation.Interesting here he gives them the bread and says “divide it among yourselves”. That would be hard to do if it was already on the tongue!
Sorry I’m not separating it…The Traditional Mass was instituted by Christ at the Last Supper composed of His very words and was handed down to us by the Apostles and their successors.All Masses are Traditional. The Mass is a Tradition/Truth of our Church. What I asked is who calls the Mass at the Last Supper the Traditional Mass? What just about every one here has said is that we Catholics don’t say that Christ instituted the “Traditional Mass”. We say that He instituted THE Mass. Got it?
Bear–Here and Now TeamUmmm I’d very much like to know… Can someone PM me with a score card so I can know whats happeneing…
I know, this thread is a bit like watching a traffic accident, you know you shouldn’t look, but you just can’t turn away!Ummm I’d very much like to know… Can someone PM me with a score card so I can know whats happeneing…
Douay-Rheims Bible:The one disciple explicitly described as touching the bread was the one who betrayed Him.