Disillusioned by the world

[flyingfish]

FlyingFish, its sad you view people that way, although I do understand where you are coming from! But I don’t want to get to that point just yet, I am holding out!

The thing is, viewing people this way has made me a lot happier. I am very accepting of people, and I am not disappointed by anything people do. It’s enabled me to focus on the good traits an individual has, while accepting the “bad” ones as a necessary part of being human.

I don’t think there aren’t any saintly people in the world, there are, my mom is actually one. Selfless as they come. But it’s very rare to meet such a person. Most people, regardless of religion by the way, are extremely self serving (though they try to tell themselves otherwise).

I remember (vaguely now) being bothered by sexual behaviors of others and society. Right now I’m not. I wouldn’t feel the least bit bothered if a bunch of people came into my house right now and had some kind of weird sex in front of me. I would just go on with what I’m doing and I wouldn’t think less of them for it. It’s a much calmer and happier place to be, than judging people as immoral or impure, or being hurt by sexual displays in the media.

Something to think about.

 

[chevalier]

Question is, do you really believe that it is all the same? While people are people and I’d wish to be able to treat people no worse after seeing things like you talk about, I can’t say those sexual displays in the media or weird things people do, as things (and not people) are good or even neutral. Can you?

 

[flyingfish]

Question is, do you really believe that it is all the same? While people are people and I’d wish to be able to treat people no worse after seeing things like you talk about, I can’t say those sexual displays in the media or weird things people do, as things (and not people) are good or even neutral. Can you?

Honestly, I am at the point where I wouldn’t get angry or upset about any kind of sexual behavior where all parties consented.

Is it neural or good? I don’t know, I mean, I really enjoy looking at attractive men in the media.

 

[NewsTheMan]

FlyingFish I would have to respectfully disagree with your view! Of course, if it is good enough for you, I wont change that!

In my view there is a moral standard that we should be holding amongst sexual behaviour. Because it isn’t just a “thing” or activity. It really is a blessed gift from God. And just like anyting, abusing it is not a good thing at all.

 

[flyingfish]

FlyingFish I would have to respectfully disagree with your view! Of course, if it is good enough for you, I wont change that!

In my view there is a moral standard that we should be holding amongst sexual behaviour. Because it isn’t just a “thing” or activity. It really is a blessed gift from God. And just like anyting, abusing it is not a good thing at all.

Lots of things are sinful, do they make you as upset as the sexual sins? I’m not telling you you should change your view about whether something is sinful. Downloading music is sinful, I’m sure many of your college friends do it. Does it make you similarly outraged? Think about changing the way you react so that you will have an easier time going through life.

 

[NewsTheMan]

All sins are sinful, but scripture makes it clear that there are varying degrees of sins. Sins involving a sexual nature are sins against the body - not only against the spirit.

They abuse the body, and also create an effect that is worse than some sins.

Our bodies are meant to be holy and joined with christ in a sense. when we make love, in a way, the spirits intertwine and the bodies become one. there is a bond that cannot be broken.

The wages of all sin is death. of course. but sexual sins are sins on various levels.

It is never easy to go through life, and Christ suffered the most out of all of us in realising this. He didn’t change so that he’d have an easier time.

 

[4elise]

ps. REFRESHING and JOYOUS speaking to Catholics!! Even if it is online

Thanks be to God

And that should reinforce your need to find other like minded individuals - I would also look into co-dependency as a possible issue - your willingness to do and do and do, having nothing in return, except abuse - is something you do not want to bring to the next relationship no matter how it is replayed -

Every relationship gives us an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and hopefully find ways to better live the Gospel and then in relationship with others who feel the same way.

wishing you joy on the journey!

 

[flyingfish]

All sins are sinful, but scripture makes it clear that there are varying degrees of sins. Sins involving a sexual nature are sins against the body - not only against the spirit.

Why do you think that sins involving the body are worse than sins involving only the spirit? I would understand if you said murdering people or raping kids is much worse than say, overeating, or smoking, or downloading music.

But I don’t understand why you think consensual sex or people choosing to dress immodestly and seek out sexual interaction is that much worse than downloading music, or overeating/smoking (if you want to include the body).

 

[chevalier]

And that should reinforce your need to find other like minded individuals - I would also look into co-dependency as a possible issue - your willingness to do and do and do, having nothing in return, except abuse - is something you do not want to bring to the next relationship no matter how it is replayed -

Every relationship gives us an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and hopefully find ways to better live the Gospel and then in relationship with others who feel the same way.

wishing you joy on the journey!

I don’t wish appear unkind, but I don’t believe in relationships being stages after stages to live out each better than the previous one until the cycle breaks. The way I see it, ideally, there’d be one relationship for everybody barring death and people wouldn’t be seeing having relationships as a social activity.

Why do you think that sins involving the body are worse than sins involving only the spirit? I would understand if you said murdering people or raping kids is much worse than say, overeating, or smoking, or downloading music.

But I don’t understand why you think consensual sex or people choosing to dress immodestly and seek out sexual interaction is that much worse than downloading music, or overeating/smoking (if you want to include the body).

Sexuality is a very intimate and delicate sphere in everybody’s life and every disorder results in great harm, spiritual and otherwise. What God wants for us is sacrificial love, what people want for themselves is a quick fix.

As for dressing immodestly, people who do that think they’re only putting themselves on display. Nope, it doesn’t work like that. They’re eliciting responses also from unwilling spectators. And that is a form of sexual abuse, although most often a relatively mild one. However, in its most extreme forms, it’s mental attempted sexual coercion.

 

[flyingfish]

Sexuality is a very intimate and delicate sphere in everybody’s life and every disorder results in great harm, spiritual and otherwise. What God wants for us is sacrificial love, what people want for themselves is a quick fix.

As for dressing immodestly, people who do that think they’re only putting themselves on display. Nope, it doesn’t work like that. They’re eliciting responses also from unwilling spectators. And that is a form of sexual abuse, although most often a relatively mild one. However, in its most extreme forms, it’s mental attempted sexual coercion.

I guess I can understand if the women are making him want sex by dressing/talking as they do and he finds that upsetting because he can’t follow through.

But, for your other point, if someone else has sex with someone else outside of marriage they may be sinning themselves, but it doesn’t affect you. That’s why I don’t understand why he is so upset by someone else having sex in college. It doesn’t affect him, they are not forcing him to have sex.

Personally I would be far more upset by smokers, every time I walk beside smokers I have to breathe in their smoke (and I have asthma). If someone has sex, it has no effect on me whatsoever.

 

[morgandonovan]

So… I’m not gonna lie I didn’t read all the replies on here, I just wanted to comment on the original post.

I’m 21, in college, and am going through the exact same thing. I go to bed at 10pm on Fridays sometimes. Trust me, we’re the same person, and this is what I’m learning…

My boyfriend broke up with me a few weeks ago, even though I was trying to do all the right things. It was devestating. But, he used to mock the Chuch a little bit too, even though he was in RCIA. He was supposed to be confirmed this past Easter, but I have no idea if he was or not, I haven’t talked to him (long-distance thing…) He thought I was a little bit “obsessed” with religion. We clearly weren’t on the same page…

Anyway, I always knew something was a little off, I just tried to justify things by telling myself that we weren’t THAT different, or that this was good for HIM, etc… :doh2:

Was it ideal? Of course not… I can’t find any good Catholic men (I don’t know where this “where are all the nice Catholic women?” thing is coming from, frankly), so I told myself that he was “good enough” and was going to settle. I mean, I’m still praying for him, he’s certainly on the right track. And I’m not perfect either, and there were plenty of things I learned from him (discipline, for example… he was so disciplined…)

I’ve gone through a lot of ups and downs the last few weeks… from bawling my eyes out to feeling like I could take on the world to feeling completey empty and expecting the world to end like, right now, to that wonderful warm comforting feeling, like you’re sitting right in the palm of God’s hand.

Things will be ok. You and I will both be ok. If God wants you to meet a nice Catholic woman and get married, you’ll meet her, and you’ll know that it’s right. Until then, be outward focused and look at the people around you. Who needs help and encouragement and prayer… It’s so hard for me to take the focus off of myself sometimes (especially this month), but it seems to be the thing that really moves me foward.

Hope that helps. God bless.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

But, for your other point, if someone else has sex with someone else outside of marriage they may be sinning themselves, but it doesn’t affect you. That’s why I don’t understand why he is so upset by someone else having sex in college. It doesn’t affect him, they are not forcing him to have sex.

Any act of evil affects you. Like the pebble in the pond. The ripple effect. Sin always has social consequences… in a more suspicious world, a less self-controlled world, a world where men and women use each other. Each person who has sex with someone else outside of marriage makes the world a more sinful place, where those who don’t do that become more isolated, more lonely, less accepted. It makes a world where STDs run rampant, where people use each other, where porn and suicide run rampant. It introduces the environment for poverty, unwed parenthood, abortion, and fatherless children. We all pay for that mess of social dysfunction eventually.

 

[chevalier]

Well, Flyingfish, Liberanos was first. Every disordered sexual act, extending to every single stupid thing everybody has done, including things I’ve done just in case you’re asking (no, you’re not, great, just so you don’t think I’m being sanctimonious here), is contributing to the sexually lax culture which makes love a long-forgotten thing and sets people up for a quick payoff, creating routines of mutual use. Thanks to it, people use people as triggers for self-affirmation. In the end, they aren’t even having sex, they’re using the other person’s body as a toy, it stops even being personal.

So… I’m not gonna lie I didn’t read all the replies on here, I just wanted to comment on the original post.

I’m 21, in college, and am going through the exact same thing. I go to bed at 10pm on Fridays sometimes. Trust me, we’re the same person, and this is what I’m learning…

Speaking of the right track, you surely are on one yourself and I never would have guessed you were 21, hadn’t you said that. You sound like a mature well-round person and certainly someone capable of having a responsible adult relationship and someone everyone would like to be his friend, so I wouldn’t worry about your future. I’m almost sure it’s going to be something great. Which I wish to you. Soldier on.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I’m glad I stumbled upon this thread tonight…I am feeling so very ‘‘disillusioned’’ with the world…perhaps, naive…perhaps wanting to believe everyone is good deep down, I still want to believe that. I have had a weird last two weeks with the ‘‘secular’’ world…and we must keep praying. Just hurts though when it’s more than something disillusioning on the news…or in the far distance ‘‘happening’’ to someone else…it’s hard when it’s happening to us.

Liberano you are so right…I sadly don’t think that enough people think of the horrible consequences of their actions, having sex outside of marriage, etc. It is scary, sometimes, what I witness…what I have heard…what I see in the media…on the news…petrifying, actually, at times…but, thankfully, Christ saved the world…if only everyone would recognize that. Makes me feel at peace, at least knowing He is my refuge. *

 

[Rascalking]

No matter how disillusioned anyone gets, never forget that there really is so much beauty out there-you just need to look for it.

 

[shondrea]

Hello. Marry me?

Seriously though…she may be thining this is just, like, playful teasing or something, but it really comes across as pretty insensitive

 

[NewsTheMan]

Chev, you hit the nail on the head with your replies to flyingfish! Sin affects us all. Sexual sin especially. If you can’t see it, or choose not to see it… then I can’t change that. But I know, not from self love but from love of God and the Holy Church, what is wrong and why it is wrong. humbly, of course.

“I guess I can understand if the women are making him want sex by dressing/talking as they do and he finds that upsetting because he can’t follow through”

If you mean that about me? I think thats innappropriate and in some sense distasteful and demeaning. That is far from the truth.

Morgandon, thanks for the post! I hope and pray and expect all goes well!

Whatevergirl - glad you found some hope here! Thanks be to God!

 

[flyingfish]

Any act of evil affects you. Like the pebble in the pond. The ripple effect. Sin always has social consequences… in a more suspicious world, a less self-controlled world, a world where men and women use each other. Each person who has sex with someone else outside of marriage makes the world a more sinful place, where those who don’t do that become more isolated, more lonely, less accepted. It makes a world where STDs run rampant, where people use each other, where porn and suicide run rampant. It introduces the environment for poverty, unwed parenthood, abortion, and fatherless children. We all pay for that mess of social dysfunction eventually.

Well, Flyingfish, Liberanos was first. Every disordered sexual act, extending to every single stupid thing everybody has done, including things I’ve done just in case you’re asking (no, you’re not, great, just so you don’t think I’m being sanctimonious here), is contributing to the sexually lax culture which makes love a long-forgotten thing and sets people up for a quick payoff, creating routines of mutual use. Thanks to it, people use people as triggers for self-affirmation. In the end, they aren’t even having sex, they’re using the other person’s body as a toy, it stops even being personal.

You could say that about a lot of sins. For example, if everyone downloads music and movies, it might cause less music and movies to be made and we would all lose out.

If many people are gluttons who eat too much junk food or are smokers, the healthcare system gets strained.

But one rarely sees impassioned posts about copyright violations or obesity/smoking.

I’m just trying to understand why people get so worked up about the sexual conduct of others. I kind of understand but I kind of don’t. When I was Catholic and following the rules, I did end up being very disgusted with sexual displays generally, but still I don’t remember being upset about what others did.

 

[flyingfish]

If you mean that about me? I think thats innappropriate and in some sense distasteful and demeaning. That is far from the truth.

I didn’t mean it about you specifically, just a general person who would be upset by how girls dress and talk. It could apply to you, but I didn’t mean to be demeaning and I’m honestly trying to understand.

What goes through your head if you’re around girls in mini skirts/ tops that show cleavage (or whatever is sexual) and are talking about sex? Why does it make you upset? Do their conversations turn you on and you don’t like feeling that way because you think it’s a sin? I’m just curious.

 

[chevalier]

No matter how disillusioned anyone gets, never forget that there really is so much beauty out there-you just need to look for it.

True. I’ve been thinking about giving myself a taste of it. It’s been a while since I last had some cultural life, say, a botanical garden or art museum or whatever.

It just stinks so much that there’s such a great weather but no fair company to have a walk with, there’s such a lot of flower stalls but no one to give a bunch to, and so on and so forth, and I’m not getting any younger as one of my friends was kind enough to put it.

Seriously though…she may be thining this is just, like, playful teasing or something, but it really comes across as pretty insensitive

Who?