Disturbing Night At Youth Mass! Please Read

[Llane]

samboy:

HOLY SMOKES! If you can’t take your cue from the Mass at least take your cue from Hollywood … even they can recognize Holy. LOL

What’s the first thing they show when they want to show Holy!!!

Well …it aint a teen Mass!

Stop deluding yourself! LOL

All right, then. My apologies, but I am not deluded. When I see Jesus Christ present in Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity on the altar, I see the fullness of Holiness. When compared to the Real Presence, the music is an afterthought. Certaintly then, by extension, any valid Mass must be Holy. By the way, I stand behind my view that contemporary music draws me closer to God just as much as some of the more traditional music. In fact, I would rather have well-performed contemporary music rather than poorly performed traditional music. I don’t care what Hollywood uses to depict what is holy. If contemporary music leads me or anyone else closer to Christ in the Most Blessed Sacrament, then why should anyone have a problem with it? If you don;t like this type of music, please attend another Mass. The music at each Mass need not always be identitical. Finally, I remind you of my earlier post where I quoted that Cardinal Arinze specifically met with teh Bishop of Phoenix about the LIFE Teen Mass and approved it once certain changes were made. If the Cardinal’s okay with it, then so should the rest of us. Also, I agree with the poster who presented Psalm 150. Mass is not a funeral, especially on Sunday. Let us rejoice each Sunday as we celebrate our savior’s resurrection. We do it every Sunday in the Psalms selected for the Sunday Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[Llane]

Meggie:

Some attend Daily Mass…FYI

Infact of the 6 or 7 daily massgoers on my camups that are teens…all of them had a stedy youth group 5 were in lifeteen or greatly affiliated with it.

Thats a good track record if you ask me.

Same is true of the Life Teen program at my parish. Several, including myself, attend daily Mass. In addition, we have two seminarians and one woman who has entered a convent in the last three years from my youth group. If vocations is not a sign of a program that promotes holiness, I don’t know what is.

 

[Llane]

Isidore_AK:

I wasn’t aware that any changes had been made to the life teen liturgy…something to think about. As things stood (past tense) there WERE many abuses to the liturgy (such as people standing around the alter, ‘passing’ communion around, skits and plays during mass, etc). IF they are able to rein in all of the abuses, I don’t see why LT would be a problem. Thats a big ‘if’ though…

Personally, I don’t think that we should make the Mass more ‘protestant’ just to keep people in the Church…free booze would bring people in too…oh wait, we tried that! (the Wine, get it? Ha Ha…I know, baaaad joke…). What happens when these life teen kids get older…and still only attend the ‘teen’ mass? Do we have a seperate liturgy for those people? Do we have a Rock’N’Rite Catholic Church? Or a Rap’N’Rite Church? Do they get they’re own Bishops?..

Seriously though…alternate forms of the liturgy can’t be a good thing…bring back the smells & bells and stone churches. I’m sick and tired of parishes that don’t look anything like a Catholic parish…sometimes you have to search for the freakin Tabernacle…

…sorry about the rant…I’m kinda incoherant sometimes…

Isidore, according to LT directives, liturgical reforms were to be implemented by October 1, 2004. These reforms included forcing the teens to remain out of the sanctuary during the Consecration, requiring the use of an approved dismissal, music within certain guidelines (It should serve the Mass, not be a sideshow), and that all changes be implemented with JOYFUL OBEDIENCE to the Vatican (no fussy implementations). At my home parish, many families attend the Life Teen Mass. One of the main objectives in Life Teen is to focus the teens on the Sacraments. If focused on the Sacraments, teens who leave LT go forth and become good Ctaholics. They may prefer a Mass with contemporary music, but will not complain at Masses without it. As for Catholic churches that don’t look Catholic, I agree with you 110%. Jesus should be in a prominent place in the Church, not in some obscure closet as seen at some churches.

 

[puzzleannie]

my kids and other teens close to me have participated in Life Teen in at least 6 different parishes in Ohio, Michigan and Texas. I have seen horrendous abuses at liturgies, Masses with no obvious abuses but lots of songs, practices, and little things that irritate me, and Masses that were breathtakingly reverent, beautiful and everything an old conservative Catholic could wish for. The liturgy at life teen depends on the priest, as with every Mass.

When they first started the kids around the altar thing it was being done everywhere, and not such clear teaching against it. At least 10 yrs ago when an Ohio bishop told them to cease and desist at a neighboring parish, they got things back on track.Another parish refused, and still refuses, to do things properly. DD is now a member of that parish, and although her kids are still in grade school, she is working with the LT team to get things more kosher. New priest just came, who happens to be an old college friend of hers, and has been put in charge of LT, and has instituted the recommended changes to conform to GIRM. Attendance at LT, which had been dwindling, has soared.

My kids got more of reverence for Real Presence and awareness of effects of sacrament and real meaning of the Mass through occassional Life Teen Masses than regular attendance at our home parish, liturgically correct but celebrated by priests and people running on automatic.

 

[samboy]

dhgray:

MASS IS A CELEBRATION. If you want to keep Jesus on the cross, then be my guest, I rather celebrate his life, death and resurrection. He died and came back for me. I rejoice for while you are at the “foot of Calvary”, I’m in the Heart of Worship.

I’m sorry I misunderstood - I thought this was a Catholic forum! There are plenty of Churches that readily accept your idea … they’re just not “Catholic”

THIS IS WHAT MASS IS!!!

Holy Mass is a SACRIFICE - It is the greatest SACRIFICE ever ever ever offered!!!

To have a sacrifice (required by the LAW of God) you need a 'VICTIM"

What is a scrifice? A sacrifice is a gift offered to God ALONE!

Jesus offered to God the Father His sufferings and death on the cross. This is called the sacrifice of the cross. On the cross Jesus gained merit and made up for the sins of men.

Every day Jesus makes the same offering that He made on the cross. He again offers Himself to God the Father.

He offers His sufferings and death on the cross. He does this in the Sacrififice of the Mass.

Our Lord applies to us the merits of His death on the cross. No BETTER VICTIM, NO GREATER GIFT, could be offered to God. The victim in the Sacrifice of the Mass is OUR LORD HIMSELF!!!

Your “Catholic” butt belongs - AT THE FOOT OF CALVARY

 

[lefthand36]

Originally posted by Samboy: I’m sorry I misunderstood - I thought this was a Catholic forum! There are plenty of Churches that readily accept your idea … they’re just not "Catholic"

Samboy,

Very well spoken. I left the Lutheran church because something was missing, and that something was Christ in all of His glory. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that Christ is not with other Christian religions, but they are lacking the fullness of Christ. That is why it saddens me to see the lack of reverence in some of our parishes, because I believe the fullness is in the Catholic church. The fullness, however, is just not in all people, or they just don’t accept the real presence, because if they did they would be reverent.

We have to get back to conversative values, or this will only get worse.

God bless,

 

[Llane]

samboy:

I’m sorry I misunderstood - I thought this was a Catholic forum! There are plenty of Churches that readily accept your idea … they’re just not “Catholic”

THIS IS WHAT MASS IS!!!

Holy Mass is a SACRIFICE - It is the greatest SACRIFICE ever ever ever offered!!!

To have a sacrifice (required by the LAW of God) you need a 'VICTIM"

What is a scrifice? A sacrifice is a gift offered to God ALONE!

Jesus offered to God the Father His sufferings and death on the cross. This is called the sacrifice of the cross. On the cross Jesus gained merit and made up for the sins of men.

Every day Jesus makes the same offering that He made on the cross. He again offers Himself to God the Father.

He offers His sufferings and death on the cross. He does this in the Sacrififice of the Mass.

Our Lord applies to us the merits of His death on the cross. No BETTER VICTIM, NO GREATER GIFT, could be offered to God. The victim in the Sacrifice of the Mass is OUR LORD HIMSELF!!!

Your “Catholic” butt belongs - AT THE FOOT OF CALVARY

Samboy, I think that you may have missed some of what the Church says on this matter. Paragraph 1358 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church outlines that "we must … consider the Eucharist as:

• thanksgiving and praise to the Father;
• the sacrificial memorial of Christ and his Body;
• the presence of Christ by the power of his word and of his Spirit.

It is truly a Trinitarian celebration. You specifically emphasize the second and third meanings while ignoring the first. Paragraph 1361 elaborates by noting that “the Eucharist is also the sacrifice of praise by which the Church sings the glory of God in the name of all creation.” This meaning especially becomes apparent when we sing the “Sanctus”–the unending hymn of praise to God.

Also, keep in mind, that the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist is the day when the “paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition…” (CCC 2177) Furthermore, the Sunday celebration “symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection.” Therefore, at Mass, especially on Sunday, we do recall the Paschal Mystery, which includes the death AND resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is Catholic! (If I have misunderstood what the Catechism notes on this matter, please correct me.)

 

[samboy]

Llane:

By the way, I stand behind my view that contemporary music draws me closer to God just as much as some of the more traditional music. In fact, I would rather have well-performed contemporary music rather than poorly performed traditional music.

First of all let us realize that the music played during mass is NOT for your benefit - so what you like or do not like is irrelevent! Music at Mass is intended for GOD - that is why it must be SACRED. 100% - Those words of praise and adoration are for God … well they are suppose to be for God. Like choirs of angel that circle the throne of God singing unceasingly the greatnest and glory of the Infinate God.

Mass is not a funeral, especially on Sunday. Let us rejoice each Sunday as we celebrate our savior’s resurrection. We do it every Sunday in the Psalms selected for the Sunday Liturgy of the Hours.

Sorry you are wrong … When at Mass you are SUPPOSE to be meditating on Chirst’s sufferings and death.

God became man for love of us, but what does it avail us if we do not understand this love?

 

[pnewton]

Rara Avis:

A Teen Mass without any question or doubt is missing one of the 4 marks of the Church so it - in the words of Jesus Christ is not the Catholic Church - and yet you still think as long as you bring your ear plugs it is OK???

Is your daughter only interested in what is pleasing to her?

First let me address the ear issue. God does not have real ears. That is a mode of speech. I do not think He hears volume as we do.

Second, you said “in the words of Jesus Christ” What words were these? Can you tell me what scripture you are refering to where Jesus said LifeTeen was not holy? Perhaps this was some private revelation you had where Jesus spoke to you? It is a dangerous thing to put words into the mouth of God unless He gives them to you.

Finally, my daughter seldom attends LifeTeen since it is in another town. She has friends at a parish who invited her on a couple of retreats. She, like myself, am a convert (former Baptist) and is a very holy girl who attends a conservative, but standard Mass. She also spends and hour in adoration and makes frequent confession.

You are still being subjective and avoiding the concrete, except for the volume issue. Is it your stance that holiness is based upon volume?

 

[pnewton]

Rara Avis:

A Teen Mass without any question or doubt is missing one of the 4 marks of the Church so it - in the words of Jesus Christ is not the Catholic Church - and yet you still think as long as you bring your ear plugs it is OK???

There is a huge problem here and you are right … It is because people no longer KNOW Who God is!

Is your daughter only interested in what is pleasing to her?

Church is NOT about having a good time … Did Christ have a good time on the Cross!

When I want to have fun, play loud music and dance I go to a party. When I assist at Mass I am at the foot of Calvary … there is no place for the above!

 

[pnewton]

samboy:

THIS IS WHAT MASS IS!!!

Holy Mass is a SACRIFICE - It is the greatest SACRIFICE ever ever ever offered!!!

To have a sacrifice (required by the LAW of God) you need a 'VICTIM"

What is a scrifice? A sacrifice is a gift offered to God ALONE!

Our Lord applies to us the merits of His death on the cross. No BETTER VICTIM, NO GREATER GIFT, could be offered to God. The victim in the Sacrifice of the Mass is OUR LORD HIMSELF!!!

Your “Catholic” butt belongs - AT THE FOOT OF CALVARY

So many capitals.

No one here has said that the Mass was not a sacrifice so to whom are you arguing?

I have a question for you (or anybody). What does the word Eucharist mean?

 

[dhgray]

Isidore_AK:

What happens when these life teen kids get older…and still only attend the ‘teen’ mass?

At least they stay in the Church.

 

[Llane]

samboy:

First of all let us realize that the music played during mass is NOT for your benefit - so what you like or do not like is irrelevent! Music at Mass is intended for GOD - that is why it must be SACRED. 100% - Those words of praise and adoration are for God … well they are suppose to be for God. Like choirs of angel that circle the throne of God singing unceasingly the greatnest and glory of the Infinate God.

True that the music is not directly for my benefit, but I have two objections to your point:

1. Consider CCC 1156-1158, which esteems music highly and recalls Augustine’s Confessions where he recalls how he was so deeply moved by the hymns and songs that he heard. Such music prompted a response of devotion to God. In this sense, the type of music that elicits such a response in my soul is relevant. It is not a mere like or dislike but an important means of drawing closer to God. Furthermore, 1158 notes the importance of cultural richness of the People of God—this implies a certain diversity with regards to the type of music used at Mass. Gregorian Chant holds pride of place, but does not hold and should not hold an exclusive place.
2. We have no idea what type of music God really prefers. If anything, Psalm 150 seems to support my contention that any instrument can be used to praise God.

samboy:

Sorry you are wrong … When at Mass you are SUPPOSE to be meditating on Chirst’s sufferings and death.

God became man for love of us, but what does it avail us if we do not understand this love?

Where do you get evidence for such a narrow interpretation?

Specifically, CCC 1167 discusses how Sunday is the day when we recall “the Passion, Resurrection, and glory of the Lord Jesus, and giving thanks to God who ‘has begotten them again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead’ unto a living hope.” This forces us to recall all of the Paschal Mystery—not just the events of Good Friday. We proclaim that “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again” in the Memorial Acclamation. Underlying all of this is an attitude of thanksgiving for:

        -His creation of the universe and, especially, each of us.

        -The Incarnation of his Son who “took the form of a slave.”

        -Christ’s suffering and death, atoning for our sins and the sins of the entire world.

        -His glorious Resurrection and Ascension.

        -The gift of his Holy Spirit.

        -The gift of his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

        -The gift of his Real Presence in the Most Holy Eucharist.

        -Our hope that we might live forever with God and all the saints and angels in Heaven.

 

[flick427]

flick427:

No offense, but this is not correct. If I went by this logic, I ride a motorcycle, poeple on motorcycles need Jesus too, therefore, I should be able to bring my motorcycle to a Mass held in the parking lot.
You are right that kids need Jesus VERY badly as do I and eveyone else alive or dead, but it is not for us to bring God to the level of human whims and desires. We instead need to try and bring our standards up to God’s level…Jesus said to be perfect as He is (God).
No, the answer to the problem you present is the leadership. The LEADERSHIP is where the answer is. We need truely Holy priest and bishops to take control, not apathetic ones or those who bow to the pressure us laity crave when we want things “our way”…We should be changing ourselves to fit the example of Jesus.

One more thing, for anyone who thinks it is okay to worship however we want, read the book of Leviticus where it is explained how to set up the temple and then to offer sacrafices.
Remember:

1. God does not change.
2. Yes, we are all different and God loves us in our own way and there is a time and place for acting out how we are funny, or “silly” or with songs of a certain style…but If you truely love someone, you put that aside and give them the utmost respect and love they deserve…this is the same problem with marriages these days, people treat them like slop and not with respect…whatever happened to chivalry?..people these days are not how they once were.

 

[debbie_m]

You are speaking the truth!

 

[dhgray]

samboy:

There are plenty of Churches that readily accept your idea … they’re just not “Catholic”

Maybe that is why so many young people leave the Church.

samboy:

THIS IS WHAT MASS IS!!!

Sorry Sam, you are wrong. Accouding to Catholic Answers
“The Eucharist is a true sacrifice”
catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

The mass is the Celebration:
americancatholic.org/Newsletters/YU/ay0601.asp

samboy:

Your “Catholic” butt belongs - AT THE FOOT OF CALVARY

You can stay on your butt at the foot, I’ll be on my knees at the heart of worship. Either way, we are worshiping Jesus in our own way.

I’ve been at the foot of calvary in the awesome presence of the Lord, have you ever been to the heart of worship? Have you prayed and praised so hard that you have spontaneous tears of passion? Have you ever been so driven with passion that you weep at the Eucharist?

 

[samboy]

dhgray:

You can stay on your butt at the foot, I’ll be on my knees at the heart of worship. Either way, we are worshiping Jesus in our own way.

If you are a Catholic - that is not an option!

From the beginning of time the method by which men most clearly manifested their reverence toward God has been by the ceremony of sacrifice. By this ceremony man takes a creature - for example an animal, or a cup of wine - and makes a gift of it to God. This is an expressive way of saying that God is the Lord of all created things. Also implied in this offering is man’s acknowledgement that God gives him everything he has, and so he thanks the Almighty for His favors in the past and begs Him to continue His favors in the future. Then the offering is destroyed - for example, the animal is killed, or the wine is poured out. This too has a symbolic meaning. It signifies that man confesses that he has sinned, and deserves to be punished by God, and by this ceremony he implores pardon. Thus, the purposes of every sacrifice are four - adoration, gratitude, petition and atonement for sin and for its punishment. Sacrifice is a public act. - that is, it is offered by a group or society, through their representative, an official known as a priest.

It is very very clear that The Catholic Church is not only missing the mark of HOLY it is also missing the mark of ONE. When it can be said that we worship the way we want!!!

 

[dhgray]

samboy:

It is very very clear that The Catholic Church is not only missing the mark of HOLY it is also missing the mark of ONE.

So you are saying that the Cathoic Church is not catholic, not Holy? Who elected you judge of the Church?

 

[samboy]

dhgray:

So you are saying that the Cathoic Church is not catholic, not Holy? Who elected you judge of the Church?

hmmmmm I was wondering when you were going to figure it out!

Holy is Holy - When something is Holy you can not deny it! I don’t have to judge - I can see!

If a person steals my car … can I judge (call) him to be a thief?

 

[samboy]

pnewton:

No one here has said that the Mass was not a sacrifice so to whom are you arguing?

That’s funny - I clearly recall some mentioning that they go to a “celebration” not a Sacrifice.

Celebration is for Protestants! … And is NOT Holy