Disturbing Night At Youth Mass! Please Read

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"He has been burning with love to us, and we have stood at a distance, cold and unmoved. He says to us from the Cross: “What more could I do? What more could I give? What more could I suffer? If there were anything I could suffer, I would suffer it still. If it were necessary to die again for you to save you, I would die again. If it were possible to suffer more, it should be suffered.” And what is your answer? I do not mean in words, I mean in deeds. He says to us: “I have loved you not in word, but in deed. I have loved you not in professions, but In Passion and Death. I have loved you not in such protestations as Peter made to Me, but by a reality which no man can deny, no man can fail to understand. I suffered death upon the Cross for you. I was forsaken even of My father; and that for your sakes.”

This is The Mass - This is Holy - This is The One True Catholic Church …

Of course we could throw in a little break dancing or ya maybe a little yahoo! Jesus is my homeboy! … give me five!!!

I mean just to break up the intensity of the suffering of Our Lord good plan … hmmmm I might just be coming around.
 
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pnewton:
Yes the Mass was called a celebration. However, no one said it was not a sacrifice. Why do you consider the two mutually exclusive when the Catechism doesn’t?
The “Celebration” of the Mass is way over worked and gives people the WRONG idea - In the past several years people have twisted and forgotten exactly WHAT is suppose to be going on! … The Mass is first and formost a SACRIFICE. It is the re enactment of Calvary.

"He was hated of men. Have you ever been hated by anybody? Do you know what it is to have the malice of someone who hates you pursuing you everywhere? Or have you every known what it is to be hated by someone who never takes the pains or trouble to pursue you? Are you conscious that to be the object of hatred to anyone, justly or unjustly, is an exceeding bitterness, and a pain whenever we remember it? He was conscious at all times that He was an object of universal and preternatural hatred by the multitudes of Jerusalem… He knew that He had been condemened unjustly, accused falsely; that lying witness had been borne against Him, but that men believed Him to be guilty of the blasphemies of which He was accused.

This is the ULTIMATE love story --------- This is THE MASS!
 
P.S. - I am well aware about thanksgiving

Basic Catehism 101

Why do you go to Mass?

first, to honor and glorify God; second, to thank Him for all the graces bestowed on the us; third, to satisfy God’s justice for our sins ; fourth, to obtain all graces and blessing.

But thank you for mentioning it - I am sure there are people out there who do not know this!
 
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samboy:
The “Celebration” of the Mass is way over worked and gives people the WRONG idea - In the past several years people have twisted and forgotten exactly WHAT is suppose to be going on! … The Mass is first and formost a SACRIFICE. It is the re enactment of Calvary.
!
The idea expressed here may reflect the need for catechisis that you have encountered. Rest assured getting the wrong idea from this type of terminolgy is not universal. I can only speak for my parish but we refer to the celebration of the Mass and at the same time understand that it is first and foremost the re-presentation of the sacrifice of calvary.

“Rejoice O heavenly powers. Sing choirs of angels!
Exalt all creation around God’s thone!”
 
This thread is the surest barometer I have ever seen to prove the fact that we do not have one Catholic Church in the United States, but two.

And never the twain shall meet.
 
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Wolseley:
This thread is the surest barometer I have ever seen to prove the fact that we do not have one Catholic Church in the United States, but two.

And never the twain shall meet.
Wolseley you are indeed very correct …

You would have to be blind deaf and dumb to believe that the visible Catholic Church is ONE!

Without a doubt if nothing else these forums continue to promote the fact that the Catholic Church is a) no longer HOLY and b) not longer ONE.

It is indeed Catholic and Apostolic but without the other 2 Marks it is no longer The One True Church of Jesus Christ!
 
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Wolseley:
This thread is the surest barometer I have ever seen to prove the fact that we do not have one Catholic Church in the United States, but two.

And never the twain shall meet.
There are those who refuse to comply with Vatican II. The Church is changing and getting better all the time.
 
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samboy:
Wolseley you are indeed very correct …

You would have to be blind deaf and dumb to believe that the visible Catholic Church is ONE!

Without a doubt if nothing else these forums continue to promote the fact that the Catholic Church is a) no longer HOLY and b) not longer ONE.

It is indeed Catholic and Apostolic but without the other 2 Marks it is no longer The One True Church of Jesus Christ!
As soon as Sam defines Holy for the rest of the free world, we’ll start working on it. As long as we all pray the way Sam wants us to. I refuse to go to the Church of Sam. I am a Catholic!

OH and Sam, if you are going to QUOTE “something” add the reference too, not just the text - thank you.
 
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Wolseley:
This thread is the surest barometer I have ever seen to prove the fact that we do not have one Catholic Church in the United States, but two.

And never the twain shall meet.
Internet newsgroup must be one of the worst sources for theological fact.

Understand that oneness is not cloneness. Even the New Testament church, though one, had both factions (Judahizers) and sinners that had to be removed (Ananias and Saphirra)
 
Let’s Play The Feud…
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samboy:
Wolseley you are indeed very correct …

You would have to be blind deaf and dumb to believe that the visible Catholic Church is ONE!

Without a doubt if nothing else these forums continue to promote the fact that the Catholic Church is a) no longer HOLY and b) not longer ONE.

It is indeed Catholic and Apostolic but without the other 2 Marks it is no longer The One True Church of Jesus Christ!
Survey Says!

X X X

The Church is what it always has been. One, Holy, and Apostolic. Within that one Church are over a billion people (actually over a billion and fifty, we might need to get ready for a boatlift in the Tiber with many ECUSA members coming back across) who have different experiences, cultures, lives, educational levels, ages, genders, races, etc., etc.

Read the Catechism:

“Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum or…the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord, the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she puts down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world. The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church.” (CCC ,835) [Quoted from “Lumen Gentium” p.23]
Italics mine.

Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you including a version of “The Catechism: The Home Game.”
 
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Nichevo:
The Church is what it always has been. One, Holy, and Apostolic. Within that one Church are over a billion people
The Church is ONE in doctrine - that means that every one of those one billion people believe exactly the same truths … If this were true - why then must I search to find a Catholic Church that teaches the Catholic Church they way I interpret it!!! Like MILLIONS of Catholics do - If you don’t like what this priest says - find a different one - and keep looking till you find the one you like … That is NOT the Catholic Church - but it is exactly what we have today!

shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church.
***"

Really - I have never in my life seen anything more divided then the positions taken by priests of The so called Catholic Church - never mind the rest of the world … HERE IN THE U.S.A.

Yes - What the Catechism says and what the Church actually is - is completely 2 different things!
 
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dhgray:
There are those who refuse to comply with Vatican II. The Church is changing and getting better all the time.
Oh, I’d say there are those who never implemented Vatican II to begin with; they implemented their own liberal, dissident nonsense—things which the Council Fathers had never envisioned—and the resulting mess is what they called Vatican II. (amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0918477794/qid=1104989786/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-0684226-1704038)

But it wasn’t Vatican II; Vatican II had nothing to do with it.

Fortunately for the kids coming up (and much to the chagrin of the hippies in the Pepsi Generation who are now mercifully retiring), the pendulum is finally swinging back towards orthodoxy and the pillars of the faith; not only in the Catholic Church, but in many Protestant churches as well: amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0829416455/qid=1104990358/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-0684226-1704038?v=glance&s=books.

It’s a good trend, and most welcome, in my opinion. 🙂
 
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pnewton:
Even the New Testament church, though one, had both factions (Judahizers) and sinners that had to be removed (Ananias and Saphirra)
Yes yes yes and when do you think they are going to start removing all the heretics so we can get back to this ONENESS!

When do you think people are going to STOP worshipping the way they want to! And I’m not talking about the laity - I’m talking about priest and bishops - when are they actually going to start following the hiearchy of the Church? Which coincedently enough is also one of the qualities the make the Church ONE … Hiearchy … which totally does not exist - Look at this forum - all you read is abuse after abuse after abuse - where is the hiearchy? hmmmmm

One priest does it and the next … NOT

So much for unity and oneness!
 
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samboy:
The Church is ONE in doctrine - that means that every one of those one billion people believe exactly the same truths … If this were true - why then must I search to find a Catholic Church that teaches the Catholic Church they way I interpret it!!! !
Short answer, because you aren’t the pope. Neither interpretation nor discipline is given to you.

You complain about those who do not follow the hierarchy, yet when the hierarchy permits the LifeTeen Mass (done properly) it is you who reject the hierarchy. Do you not remember from earlier post that Cardinal that the founder of LifeTeen met with Cardinal Ratzinger specifically to address and correct errors?

Rest assured that if you definition of oneness is perfect harmony, then it will only be achieved after the return of our Lord.
 
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samboy:
The Church is ONE in doctrine - that means that every one of those one billion people believe exactly the same truths
No, it means that those same truths are there for every one of those billion people to learn, understand, and use in order to develop more fully their faith and come to believe. Did you believe everything the Church teaches right away? No, unless you had an infusion of grace, you too had to learn over time and are continuing to learn what our Church teaches. It is after all, a revealed religion. .
If this were true - why then must I search to find a Catholic Church that teaches the Catholic Church they way I interpret it!!! Like MILLIONS of Catholics do - If you don’t like what this priest says - find a different one - and keep looking till you find the one you like … That is NOT the Catholic Church - but it is exactly what we have today!
Really - I have never in my life seen anything more divided then the positions taken by priests of The so called Catholic Church - never mind the rest of the world … HERE IN THE U.S.A.
Then there is a failure that starts at the level of basic catechesis from the age of reason through adulthood. (this is something that, as a CCD teacher, I constantly do battle with. I despise what I believe to be too much focus on “Buddy Jesus”, popsicle stick crosses, and pipe cleaner nativity scenes in CCD. You’ll see me use this phrase frequently as I feel it best describes one of the major catechetical issues we face.) This failure is a failure of education and a willingness to allow a laxity to grow in the laity, (sorry about the rhyme, Al Sharpton moment.)

The thing is, the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Throughout the history of the Church, there have been numerous disagreements between leaders, thinkers, average Catholics, some of whom even found themselves outside of the Church and then back in due to disagreements. The only ones who became separated from the Church permanantly were those who exercised free will and chose to do so. Today’s hero can be tomorrow’s heretic, Henry VIII and Hans Kung for example. Today’s heretic can be tomorrow’s hero, Origen comes to mind.

CONTINUED
 
Is the lack of Catechesis the fault of the Institution that is the Church? Or is the fault of the admittedly flawed humans who administer it? Does the fact that some or many have in the past, do now, and will in the future consider themselves Catholic (even when everything they believe says the opposite) mean that the only Church established in name and word by Jesus Christ; who swore that the gates of hell would not prevail against it, no longer exists? Does the present scandal and crisis mean the death knell of the Church? No, it simply means that the Church again faces a time of trial, where like gold, the impurities are cleansed by fire and by trial.

Every scandal in the Church’s history has been followed by a period of renewed growth. The reformation led to the counter-reformation. Millions of Catholics were lost in Europe and millions more were gained in the missionary work in the new world. A Church that had been bound to monasteries and fiefdoms experienced a rebirth in missionary fervor with new orders such as the Franciscans and Jesuits.

What we have today, is the Church at a similar crossroads. The Church is now being forced to confront it’s scandals and face its past failures. The Chinese ideogram for Crisis means “danger and opportunity” there is both for our Church now. The Gen X and Gen Y demand for a Church more rooted in faith has begun to produce a laity grounded in Orthodoxy and with a belief in social justice that is rooted in the Church not using the Church as a mask for a political agenda. Look at the emergence of orders like the Friars of the Renewal under Fr. Groeschel, or the impact of the various lay movements that stress faith, justice, and loyalty to the magisterium.

I don’t see a splintered disparate Church. The Church is eternal. I see a seeking people who are being brought closer together under the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Yes - What the Catechism says and what the Church actually is - is completely 2 different things!
Absolutely, and yet they are still one. Just as Christ was one being with two natures so is his Church human and divine. Another example is what Christ calls us to be and what we actually are, are initially two different things yet still eventually becoming one. The Catechism is the framework upon which the form and ideal of the Church are built. It is the blueprint of The Church in all of its glory; Church Triumphant, Church Suffering, and Church Militant. It is the best tool we have along with Holy Scripture to define the Church. We are only a part of that as the Church Militant, the Church here on earth. We have only a limited ability to perceive God compared to those in Purgatory and the Beatific Vision. It only makes sense that our actions to bring about the Church on earth are going to be flawed. You can’t blame the blueprint when the builders can only read a small part of it.

One in Doctrine- one people seeking to understand and live it.

One Holy- established by Christ son of the living God and guided by the Holy Spirit.

One Catholic- Universal, open to all, encompassing all.

One Apostolic- Entrusted to men. The same men who, all but one, in their humanity, abandoned our Lord when he was put to the test. Yet he still entrusted his Church to them knowing that while they may fail, the Church, guided by the Spirit is eternal.

One Church
 
First let me start off this posting by saying:

I’M SORRY, if I have said anything which may have offended anyone, especially you samboy.

Now a reading from the Gospel of St. Mark, Chapter 9, verse 40:
***Jesus said to them: "For he who is not against us is on our ***side."

It dawned on me today that Samboy is in purpetural Adoration. What an awesome feeling that must be and he just wants everyone to expierence what he must be expierencing. To continiously be in awe, at the foot of calvary.

On the other hand, I have been to the heart of worship, praying so hard that one cries in awe with tears of joy, dancing before the throne, lift your hands and embrace the Lord and drop to your knees at the eucharst.

Sam, I honor you and your wanting the ONENESS of the church.
 
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dhgray:
First let me start off this posting by saying:

I’M SORRY, if I have said anything which may have offended anyone, especially you samboy.
I appreciate the GREAT humility inwhich the above statement was made. To humble yourself in the face of an adversary takes great courage, it is clear that God has indeed given you many graces!

To pnewton: Indeed the quotes are not my own words but the words of Henry Edward Manning - Cardinal Archbishop of Westminister. They are from the Book “Sin and It’s Consequences” Sermon VII “The Dereliction on The Cross”

I have used the quotes to show exactly what HOLY is! And that it is severely lacking in the churches today. What Vatican II produced is NOT Holy.

It is my hope that all who seek the Truth shall find it! “The Passion of The Christ” was not just a movie - It was sent directly from the hands of God to awaken ALL who have forgotten and those who never knew - as it is no longer taught!

Next time you kneel in Church - ask yourself - what is missing?? And then seek to find it - because it is not there!

I will probably not come here again - as it is nothing but the same over and over in every thread. But fear not the Catholic Church exists in the true state of ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC and the gates of hell have not prevailed against it. If you ask God to show you where He will!

As I leave - I will leave you with some final words of Henry Edward Manning - Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster.

“We have offended against Him by every member of the body, by every faculty of the mind, by every passion of the heart, by every affection of the soul; and upon the Cross in His bodily pain, and in His mental sorrow, and in His spiritual desolation, He made a perfect and complete expiation for all our sins. They are all expiated; and in His Precious Blood they will all be washed away on one condition - that we are made like to Him; and if we can be made like to Him only by being crucified, then let us be crucified! A will at variance with His will is sin and eternal death; a will crucified with His will is holiness and eternal life.”
 
I believe Samboy wants what all conservative Catholics want, and that is that oneness. That is a key factor in attracting so many converts such as myself. I left the Lutheran church because of their lack of reverence, and came to the One Holy Catholic church where I felt my needs would be meet, but to my surprise the lack of reverence and the oneness that I seek seems to be missing from many, not all, parishes today. And when I say oneness, I am not talking about all this lovey-dovey stuff. I am talking about adhering to the same beliefs, and that means sheer reverence in God’s house.

What brought on this dramatic change in the church? At first, I will say I thought it was Vatican II, but I have just come to accept that it is the liberal world in which we live today that has brought it on. According to scripture, liberalism will only get worse towards the end of time, and I just don’t want to be accused of being liberal and giving into the world. I want to give in to God, and Him alone.

Yes, that lack of reverence and awe does not make the Catholic Church cease to exist as the One Holy Catholic church, but it makes me feel I could get the same thing in a Protestant church which I left.

It is the sheer awe and true admiration for God in his house that is lacking, and it is not wrong to be heartbroken over this. Just because the world has become liberal, does not mean we as Catholics have to accept this worldly way that has entered the Church in many parishes.

I have recently found that many priest differ dramatically on things, because I was allowed to enter the church by means of the internal forum without an annulment, but have found out that it can only be used after the external forum had been used. Now, I know that is a whole other topic that I have already discussed in another thread, but I had to mention it to show you that the same Catechism and Catholic beliefs are not being taught in every parish, and that is something that must be corrected.

That is just my opinion, and I am sticking to it.

God bless,
 
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