Divorce

[styrgwillidar]

is it really difficult? at times, at times it’s a joy, at times it’s both. But i couldn’t see myself doing things any other way. I look at my kids and i don’t think of difficult or easy, it’s just what i have to do.
how do you see your kids responding to the situation? in my case confusion initially, than sadness, than each chose their manner of dealing with it. All realizing (because we discussed it), that doing something self-destructive for attention was a risk and would make things worse. Kids are always the center of their own world and they tend to think everything is related to them. Blame themselves for the divorce. In the case of the mom completely leaving it’s magnified. Even with my ex visiting my kids are bright enough to wonder, “if it was just about you and mom, why didn’t she make her home include us? She could have gotten away from you without pushing us out, but there’s no way she could have gotten away from us without dumping you as well.” when their mom initially moved out they stopped listening to what we said and simply judged us by our actions. Talk’s cheap, whiskey costs money. They see a lot of disconnects and contradictions in what their mother has said and what she’s done.

what is the typical day like for you? get up at 5am, get dressed, wake up my younger daughter at 5:15 or 5:30 depending on whether she has choir practice and eat breakfast with her. Ex shows up about 5:45, kiss each of my kids, feed and water the dogs and leave. Get to work around 6:30, workout during lunch hour, leave work around 16:00. Most days stop by the grocery store for a fresh veg or meat, home at about 17:00 make dinner -except tuesdays when ex brings dinner for kids, than i come home about 18:00 just after she leaves. Wednesdays is always a quick pasta dish or something as i teach ccd at 6. Ex now comes over one or two afternoons during the week since she won’t visit with kids at my home every other weekend anymore. Help kids with homework and do the dishes at some point, laundry as necessary. Make lunches for the next day. If homework gets wrapped up watch tv or a movie with the kids. (tangled is a favorite lately). Put the kids to bed. Check e-mail/work/game on the computer a bit as they fall asleep. Usually go to bed around 23:30pm

how do you grieve and still keep hope? i’ve written this before… enjoy the little things. Life is too short to be miserable so i won’t dwell on the negative things i can’t change. I won’t rewrite the past and do the sour grapes thing out of bitterness, or label her as pure evil (i mean i stayed with her over 20yrs), there were good times and i take them out and remember them occasionally. I will try to appreciate every little thing. Even the mess from the dogs after calming down, in a weird way you know in the future you’ll miss it because it was a part of everything else. And the furry evil little beasts have been a great comfort to the kids. Every day is a new day, happiness is a choice. I lost some friends/colleagues who died much younger than me who never had the chance to love a woman, be married, have a son or daughter and everything that means. Look at all I’ve had that they never had the chance to- how can I complain? My kids first smiles, first steps, first kisses, first and every i love you dad that your kids say. I’m far better off than most divorced men. My kids are with me, i kiss them every morning and every night. Now, if i was in one of those situations where they were with their mom and she was keeping them from me, denying me access etc. I’d have a much harder time with the hope thing.

I can’t regret being married to her. I would always have wished i had if i hadn’t asked her.

 

[PRmerger]

I am an abandoned spouse. Two weeks after our 22nd Anniversary my husband left. There was no sign or hint he was unhappy with me or our marriage. He’d given me an expensive necklace and we went out for our Anniversary. In fact, things in our lives were getting better. It was a total, total shock. It was a shock to everyone in our circle.

I went to my priest right away. He said there was no valid reason, no matter how awful I might have been, for my husband to leave. My husband never went to the priest. He flatly refused to see a counselor. In the end, I was forced to file for divorce. He had been the main breadwinner in our marriage. I had only recently gone back to work full time after being home with our 2 boys for 15 years. I had no choice but to file for divorce if I were to keep a roof over our heads.

Hoping for reconciliation nearly destroyed me. I’ve finally accepted that he is gone forever. As a devote Catholic I must live a celibate and single life. My cross to bear. I am blessed to have a loving, extended family and two teenage children who love me deeply. But it must be hell for those who don’t have a good support system. I also found no ministry to Catholics who’ve had to divorce.

As a devout Catholic I am not seeking an annulment. I can see no reason to find our marriage vows faulty. I’m very active in my parish and on the parish council and partake of the sacraments.

You are a humble servant of God, vsedriver. May God shower you with his abundant grace!

 

[Gorgias]

As a devote Catholic I must live a celibate and single life.

As a devout Catholic I am not seeking an annulment. I can see no reason to find our marriage vows faulty.

I’m really, really sorry to hear of the awful situation that you’ve found yourself in, seemingly through no fault of your own. It sounds like you’ve really been able to lean on your faith to help you move through all these difficulties, and that’s inspiring to read…!

You mention that, being a “devoted” and “devout” Catholic, you seem to be unwilling to approach the question of annulment. As praiseworthy as that might be, are you sure that’s the definition of “devotion” or of a “devout Catholic”?

I’m assuming that there were no impediments or defects of form at the time of your wedding vows. However, you admit that you have no reason why your husband left. How can you be certain that there is “no reason” to think that the vows were invalid? Although they might have been perfectly valid from your perspective, that doesn’t mean that this is necessarily the case from your husband’s perspective. And, as a “devout Catholic”, you believe that there must be valid consent and lack of impediment for a valid marriage, right?

Unless you know why he left, how can you say that an annulment isn’t the appropriate course for you?

Now, I don’t want to push you in that direction necessarily – I’m just saying that, until you know the reason why he left, you can’t really make a reasoned judgment on the marriage, can you? It may have been a natural marriage, but until you have the facts about his disappearance, how can you say for sure that it was sacramental?

Good luck… you and your family are in my prayers!

 

[joanofarc2008]

I’m really, really sorry to hear of the awful situation that you’ve found yourself in, seemingly through no fault of your own. It sounds like you’ve really been able to lean on your faith to help you move through all these difficulties, and that’s inspiring to read…!

You mention that, being a “devoted” and “devout” Catholic, you seem to be unwilling to approach the question of annulment. As praiseworthy as that might be, are you sure that’s the definition of “devotion” or of a “devout Catholic”?

I’m assuming that there were no impediments or defects of form at the time of your wedding vows. However, you admit that you have no reason why your husband left. How can you be certain that there is “no reason” to think that the vows were invalid? Although they might have been perfectly valid from your perspective, that doesn’t mean that this is necessarily the case from your husband’s perspective. And, as a “devout Catholic”, you believe that there must be valid consent and lack of impediment for a valid marriage, right?

Unless you know why he left, how can you say that an annulment isn’t the appropriate course for you?

Now, I don’t want to push you in that direction necessarily – I’m just saying that, until you know the reason why he left, you can’t really make a reasoned judgment on the marriage, can you? It may have been a natural marriage, but until you have the facts about his disappearance, how can you say for sure that it was sacramental?

Good luck… you and your family are in my prayers!

I think if she has found peace with her decision we should respect it. How do we discern when one has found peace. They don’t find the need to come on her and push their decisions on other people? They simply support other people in their own decisions and give information when they have it to give. Although I do understand and appreciate where you are coming from I think there is room for people to make their own choices here in what they pursue as long as it is healthy - when it stops being healthy and can hurt the community then it can be a problem. VSE is not that person. God bless her.

 

[Gorgias]

I think if she has found peace with her decision we should respect it.

Absolutely – but from what we’ve read here, we’ve been presented with is not “I’ve considered all options, and found peace”, but rather, “this is what a devout Catholic does” and worse, without (seemingly) giving due consideration to all options, the conception that this is “her cross to bear”. I’m not certain that this is an accurate position; I was just hoping to point out that a person doesn’t have to feel trapped into a particular decision, based on a perception that this is what a “devout Catholic” does.

How do we discern when one has found peace. They don’t find the need to come on her and push their decisions on other people?

We don’t discern, on behalf of others. Yet, can we just say “stay warm and well fed” when we see someone who seems to be saying they’re feeling cold and empty (although dealing with it, due to a perception that it’s their burden to bear)?

They don’t find the need to come on her and push their decisions on other people? They simply support other people in their own decisions and give information when they have it to give.

And I challenge you to find anything in my statement that does anything other than “give information”, especially since I was rather explicit that I didn’t want to push a certain decision.

when it stops being healthy and can hurt the community then it can be a problem.

Does it hurt the Catholic community when Catholics think that a valid Catholic juridic procedure – the nullity process – is something that Catholics should avoid, because it’s their responsibility to “bear their crosses”? I think not. Nevertheless, if VSE is convicted in her decision, she can listen to a well-intentioned voice and respond “thank you, no”, if she so wishes. And neither she nor I would be “unhealthy” in our actions.

But thanks for telling me not to express an opinion that points out a legitimate Church process.

 

[Gorgias]

Does it hurt the Catholic community when Catholics think that a valid Catholic juridic procedure – the nullity process – is something that Catholics should avoid, because it’s their responsibility to “bear their crosses”? I think*** it does***.

LOL… serves me right to work the rhetoric, so late at night. Nonetheless, I stand by my point – inasmuch as it seemed her decision to “bear her cross” as a “devout Catholic”, to the exclusion of considering the merits of the nullity process, it seems that this type of perspective hurts the Catholic community, when Catholics refuse to consider availing themselves of processes that the Church provides as a legitimate recourse, all in the name of “devotion”…

 

[FCGeorge]

I’m not sure what your dog is in this hunt, Bryan.

Hello Melissa,

The salvation of souls. It is the only “hunt” we should have our “dog” in.

There are far too many stories like the ones just posted on here. Husbands and wives are being abandoned and children are very deeply hurt by this. Our “no fault divorce culture” has seeped inside the walls of our Catholic Church where we now find a “no divorce is a fault” culture.

The modern response born out of a therapeutisized “false charity” that our Holy Father has shined his brilliant light on is, “Divorce is not sinful, only remarriage after the divorce is sinful.”

This teaches spouses that they can abandon their families for any and every cause and somehow still be in communion with Christ… as long as they don’t “marry” someone else.

It is damning to the soul of the one who abandons the marriage. For the scales only thicken over their eyes preventing them from seeing the need to repent of their sinful abandonment. For they are told the abandonment isn’t even gravely sinful!! It would only be a “remarriage” after the abandonment that would be gravely sinful.

The most popular response we now find is far different from our Blessed Lord’s response.

When the Pharisees asked Him…

Matthew 19: 3And there came to him the Pharisees tempting him, and saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

He did not respond with the response we now often hear, “I suggest you talk it through with a spiritual advisor first but even if you don’t, if you pray about it and determine in your own heart that you have a good enough reason to divorce your wife, then you go ahead. It is only the remarriage after a divorce that would be gravely sinful. The man who puts away his wife for any of these causes should then pursue the healing process of getting an annulment.”

Who doesn’t rationalize in their own heart and mind that they are “justified” in divorcing their spouse?

I just pray that our shepherds response will become more like The Shepherd’s response.

4Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said:

5For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.

6Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.   

7They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away?

8He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

Melissa, it may come across like I think I have all the answers but I definitely do not. I could be wrong on anything. I will be held accountable eternally for the words I speak (or type). This is a sobering reality.

But those who are speaking (or typing) words convincing all abandoning spouses that they are doing nothing gravely wrong will also be held accountable. We have just read of two examples of spouses being unjustly (very likely unjustly) abandoned. The words too often being spoke in the name of the therapeutisized version of “pastoralism” help to create a culture in which these marital abandoners can feel like they are doing nothing gravely sinful by abandoning their spouses and forcing their children to go through this. Indeed, they help these spouses to fall deeper into the delusion that they can be “great parents” and are “loving” their children. Because “love” is reduced to a feeling rather than the willingness to give one’s life for another.

Our spouses who abandon us are not “evil people.” They are made in God’s image and of infinite value. We pray for them and for the shepherds to warn them that the lion looking to devour souls prowls in the woods of divorce. Our stand for our marriages is a stand for God’s Truth and for our spouses souls. It is simply our feeble little way of imitating Christ. Of carrying our own cross.

Again, please see that an “abandoning spouse” is not a spouse who has a valid reason to seek separation and then separates while remaining faithful in her heart to the marriage vows. This spouse is always hoping for true repentance and reconciliation… not for his/her sake… but for the sake of the sinner. This is Christ-like. And it may be impossible for us alone, but not for Him working through us.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

 

[joanofarc2008]

Bryan - sometimes we are not only held accountable eternally. Sometimes the Lord holds us accountable now - through our brothers and sisters. Maybe you may wish to give some thought to that.

 

[mamaslo]

styrgwillidar:
Styrgwillidar, I think your wife was a fool. You are a good man. I am not saying that to be mean to her, but it just makes me shake my head. Maybe you didn’t know how good you were until this happened. Maybe she feels like she cannot come back as she made her choice.

Regardless, you are a blessed man.

peace.

 

[rainbow1]

styrgwillidar:
This is such a wonderful post and it is really very healing for me to read you words…thank you so much…

 

[rainbow1]

I am an abandoned spouse. Two weeks after our 22nd Anniversary my husband left. There was no sign or hint he was unhappy with me or our marriage. He’d given me an expensive necklace and we went out for our Anniversary. In fact, things in our lives were getting better. It was a total, total shock. It was a shock to everyone in our circle.

I went to my priest right away. He said there was no valid reason, no matter how awful I might have been, for my husband to leave. My husband never went to the priest. He flatly refused to see a counselor. In the end, I was forced to file for divorce. He had been the main breadwinner in our marriage. I had only recently gone back to work full time after being home with our 2 boys for 15 years. I had no choice but to file for divorce if I were to keep a roof over our heads.

Hoping for reconciliation nearly destroyed me. I’ve finally accepted that he is gone forever. As a devote Catholic I must live a celibate and single life. My cross to bear. I am blessed to have a loving, extended family and two teenage children who love me deeply. But it must be hell for those who don’t have a good support system. I also found no ministry to Catholics who’ve had to divorce.

As a devout Catholic I am not seeking an annulment. I can see no reason to find our marriage vows faulty. I’m very active in my parish and on the parish council and partake of the sacraments.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is amazing how much alot of us have in common…

 

[rainbow1]

I’m really, really sorry to hear of the awful situation that you’ve found yourself in, seemingly through no fault of your own. It sounds like you’ve really been able to lean on your faith to help you move through all these difficulties, and that’s inspiring to read…!

You mention that, being a “devoted” and “devout” Catholic, you seem to be unwilling to approach the question of annulment. As praiseworthy as that might be, are you sure that’s the definition of “devotion” or of a “devout Catholic”?

I’m assuming that there were no impediments or defects of form at the time of your wedding vows. However, you admit that you have no reason why your husband left. How can you be certain that there is “no reason” to think that the vows were invalid? Although they might have been perfectly valid from your perspective, that doesn’t mean that this is necessarily the case from your husband’s perspective. And, as a “devout Catholic”, you believe that there must be valid consent and lack of impediment for a valid marriage, right?

Unless you know why he left, how can you say that an annulment isn’t the appropriate course for you?

Now, I don’t want to push you in that direction necessarily – I’m just saying that, until you know the reason why he left, you can’t really make a reasoned judgment on the marriage, can you? It may have been a natural marriage, but until you have the facts about his disappearance, how can you say for sure that it was sacramental?

Good luck… you and your family are in my prayers!

The way I read your note was that you wrote out of compassion…wanting to make sure that she realized that it was every bit “as devout” to pursue an annulment if she chose to rather than live alone …but that you weren’t trying to push her in that direction if living alone is her true personal choice… this is the problem with emails, we don’t always know exactly what the person is thinking…but it works in the long run if we keep communicating…

 

[mamaslo]

Does it hurt the Catholic community when Catholics think that a valid Catholic juridic procedure – the nullity process – is something that Catholics should avoid, because it’s their responsibility to “bear their crosses”? I think not. Nevertheless, if VSE is convicted in her decision, she can listen to a well-intentioned voice and respond “thank you, no”, if she so wishes. And neither she nor I would be “unhealthy” in our actions.

But thanks for telling me not to express an opinion that points out a legitimate Church process.

I just wanted to interject that she did talk to her priest and he said there wasn’t any reason he could see that made the marriage invalid. So she may have been encouraged not to try…just a thought.

 

[rainbow1]

Bryan, would you feel comfortable sharing on this thread about your own situation so that we can understand the stance you are taking?
I can tell from your posts that you have spent alot of time discerning what you hear God saying about your marriage…can you share with us? Hoping for all of us to understand you better…blessings…

 

[styrgwillidar]

Styrgwillidar, I think your wife was a fool. You are a good man. I am not saying that to be mean to her, but it just makes me shake my head. Maybe you didn’t know how good you were until this happened. Maybe she feels like she cannot come back as she made her choice.

Regardless, you are a blessed man.

peace.

Mamslo, thank you. Yes I am truly blessed in many ways. I would not have stayed with a woman for 20 years if I thought she was a fool. At the heart of this, I truly believe, is an untreated/improperly treated mental disease. Now, whether it always existed and she fought it on and off for her whole life or something that sprung up recently is a question I can’t answer. A lot of people who know her are shaking their heads over it as well.

It has very much emphasized the ‘in sickness or in health’ issue in marriage.

Of course, you’re only hearing my side of it. I may just want to see some cause or reason to make sense of it all. But fool or mentally afflicted the effect on her life and the kids is the same.

 

[mamaslo]

Mamslo, thank you. Yes I am truly blessed in many ways. I would not have stayed with a woman for 20 years if I thought she was a fool. At the heart of this, I truly believe, is an untreated/improperly treated mental disease. Now, whether it always existed and she fought it on and off for her whole life or something that sprung up recently is a question I can’t answer. A lot of people who know her are shaking their heads over it as well.

It has very much emphasized the ‘in sickness or in health’ issue in marriage.

Of course, you’re only hearing my side of it. I may just want to see some cause or reason to make sense of it all. But fool or mentally afflicted the effect on her life and the kids is the same.

Maybe the use of the word “fool” was stronger than need be. I was emphasising a point more than calling her an actual fool. I was just emphasizing that you are a good man, whether this caused you to grow into that man or you were already there before hand… you are a good man. Just trying to encourage you and affirm you as you are.
:hug1:

 

[styrgwillidar]

Maybe the use of the word “fool” was stronger than need be. I was emphasising a point more than calling her an actual fool. I was just emphasizing that you are a good man, whether this caused you to grow into that man or you were already there before hand… you are a good man. Just trying to encourage you and affirm you as you are.
:hug1:

Mamaslo, I didn’t take offense, I knew what you meant with the association of shaking your head over it. Others, have described her actions as foolish as well.

I think God has very much helped me in all this. I prayed/pray constantly. Whether I was good or not is open to debate-- my kids go back and forth on that all the time. Seems to be an inverse correlation with my tasking them with something. I think each situation does give us the opportunity to grow, and the reliance on the Holy Spirit for guidance assisted me greatly.

 

[rainbow1]

Mamslo, thank you. Yes I am truly blessed in many ways. I would not have stayed with a woman for 20 years if I thought she was a fool. At the heart of this, I truly believe, is an untreated/improperly treated mental disease. Now, whether it always existed and she fought it on and off for her whole life or something that sprung up recently is a question I can’t answer. A lot of people who know her are shaking their heads over it as well.

It has very much emphasized the ‘in sickness or in health’ issue in marriage.

Of course, you’re only hearing my side of it. I may just want to see some cause or reason to make sense of it all. But fool or mentally afflicted the effect on her life and the kids is the same.

My exhusband also suffered /suffers from mental health issues that were more apparent as time went by…or at least that I recognized more. It is so hard, because we want to make sense out of everything, but mental illness don’t “make sense” by definition. In my case, it makes thinking about the annulment process hard- I don’t understand even my own marriage… Rhetorically speakiing, how does a person explain a marriage that doesn’t even make sense to his/herself?

 

[rainbow1]

Just sort of pondering today the importance of discernment…and the rapport with God that Christians need to stay connected to the will of the Lord… and I have been putting thought into exactly what my early marriage was, and how unfortunate I did not discern at that time to understand what God’s plan would be for me. I grew up in a very religiously strict family that instilled in me that divorce was a sin. So when I found myself in a deeply troubled marriage, I did not have a clue what to do. I did not know that I needed to pray to listen for the will of God. Instead I was worried about what my parents would think if I left my Catholic marriage…I was very young and ended up feeling so much shame that I didnt even tell my parents we were having such issues. In reality, had I been listening for God’s voice in my very troubled world, I suspect He would have led me to a civil divorce, and a new life. Living in a marriage that is not valid (which I am presuming it was not valid) is often not a holy thing. In fact, it can be a very sinful thing. I am sure there are many Catholic marriages that are null, with couples who misuse the title of the sacrament to use another person’s life, for monetary reasons, for reasons of shame, out of laziness, out of fear, etc. Wouldn’t it be easier to be able to have some certain mathematical equation that we could put in some numbers of our marriages and have the output tell us what to do!!! I am guessing God is ok with us enduring the struggles and trying our best to learn from it all… I read that if you are trying to figure out God’s will, then you are actually pleasing God…that He is looking for us to want to please Him, and that in itself is pleasing to Him…

 

[mamaslo]

My exhusband also suffered /suffers from mental health issues that were more apparent as time went by…or at least that I recognized more. It is so hard, because we want to make sense out of everything, but mental illness don’t “make sense” by definition. In my case, it makes thinking about the annulment process hard- I don’t understand even my own marriage… Rhetorically speakiing, how does a person explain a marriage that doesn’t even make sense to his/herself?

Actually, I think it depends. I struggle with depression. Often folks will just say…“oh, things will look up soon” but if you have that, well they might or they might get worse. I am on a different site with others who have depression, and the very interesting thing is that I can describe to them what I am feeling and they can respond because the feelings are common and have common similarities.

One of the common things people mention is that their spouse just doesn’t “get” how they feel or understand or take seriously the gloomy feeling of falling into a black hole or negative voices from the ghosts of those who came before that moment and the ghosts of gossips who talk about others in front or to you and then those voices say…they talk about you that way…

Some disorders just won’t allow the ill person to look outside toward another person to be one with. Others can, but have to work on it. Some can take a magic pill and it fixes it, but if they don’t at least talk about it, then chances for healing are highly limited. I found great comfort in knowing the things I experience is common among depressed folks.

If you are still asking about mental health, then look at the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance and some others. They also have forums for family members…then sometimes those family members fall ill as well and need support or at least encouragement to guard their own health. My guess is that maybe you tasted a situational depression when it came to an end or was going that way. You seem chipper now, but if you could look back on your feelings, and realize your physical resources were tapped out and collect those memories, you may understand a little better how someone feels on a regular basis and maybe something started it, maybe they are inclined toward it biologically.
Now that you both mentioned that they may have not felt good enough. Not because of anything bad you did, but because they feel irreparably broken and you shouldn’t have to deal with that.
in some way, maybe you were not able to communicate through their bottomless need to be loved…that you do indeed love.

if it was some other MI then sorry I went into the depression topic so much.