J
joanofarc2008
Guest
Exactly!!!
- Status
J
jrenea
Guest
I know a woman whose husband left her after 7 months of marriage. Can she become a nun?
E
EvelynEVF
Guest
You might post in Vocations. She would have to have a decree of nullity, and different congregations and orders have different rules about divorced women. She should expect to be treated very carefully, since they would want to make sure she wasn’t just trying to enter on the rebound, when she needs to do a lot of healing first.
G
GraceDK
Guest
Dear jrenea.
She could if the Church decides with her that she has a vocation to that.
However, if one of the parties is not actually comitted to the nature of marriage then the marriage is invalid. That means, if the person already planned to leave after a short time, or never had any plan to stick around when things got difficult, then that might be a clear indication that the marriage was invalid from the onset.
People who are left by their spouse so fast after the wedding have a pretty good case, so she might get an annulment.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
She needs to go and talk to her priest and discern this. Just because she’s been deserted by her husband does not mean she is called to a vocation of religious service. Is she even civilly divorced yet?
J
joanofarc2008
Guest
I had this thought during my divorce too. It passed. For your friend it may be real. It may not be. The biggest thing for her is not to put the cart before the horse. She will need to work first on taking care of the divorce and finding out if she is eligible for a decree of nullity. She will also need to take care of any debt she has incurred from the divorce. All that being said once she has the decree of nullity in hand there is no reason she cannot then start discerning what her vocational call is. However, until that day she is still married and has a vocational call to her current marriage even if she is living separately.
F
FCGeorge
Guest
Hello Joanofarc, hope you are well. Marriage has never and will never be “Ceasar’s.”
*…God himself is the author of marriage. The vocation to marriage is written in the very nature of man and woman as they came from the hand of the Creator… *(CCC 1603).
*In his preaching Jesus unequivocally taught the original meaning of the union of man and woman as the Creator willed it from the beginning: permission given by Moses to divorce one’s wife was a concession to the hardness of hearts. The matrimonial union of man and woman is indissoluble: God himself has determined it “what therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” *CCC 1614
*
Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. *CCC 1640
Marriage is God’s. We are not to allow Ceasor, or President or any set of civil judges define it for us and instruct us on what language to use.
If a civil divorce does separate what God joins then how does a husband become an “ex-husband?”
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
J
joanofarc2008
Guest
You are entirely wrong - there are two parts to marriage - the Sacramental part and the natural, legal part. The legal part will always be Cesar’s in this country as well as several others. This is why Canon Law is written as it is to be make allowances for the differences between legalities over international borders. You see you are oversimplifying the case yet again.
F
FCGeorge
Guest
Hello Rainbow, hope you are doing well. I do not know if he is your husband or not.
If he was your husband then he is your husband and he is not your “ex-husband.”
If he wasn’t your husband then he is not your husband and never was your husband so he couldn’t possibly be an “ex” husband.
I wouldn’t call myself the “ex quarterback of the Chicago Bears.” For I never have been the QB of the Chicago Bears.
Apparently he is I guy you were civilly married to and are no longer civilly married to.
But whether or not he is your husband, I do not pretend to know. Neither of our opinions on it will matter anyway. Our opinions on it do not change the reality that you are either married or never were married. God knows… and he will be a witness to it. One way or the other.
God bless you Rainbow.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
F
FCGeorge
Guest
Hello TheRealJuliane,
I don’t know the answer to the above question but I am wondering why it would matter if there has been a civil divorce yet?
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
R
rainbow1
Guest
Actually, my opinion on my marriage matters very much so…at least to me and to God. If God cares to count each hair on my head, then I am sure He also cares what I think. I may be wrong in what I think about things, but still, I am sure that it still matters to God.
If I make a decision that is based on erroneous thinking, which happens all the time, God will not chunk me into hell. He will guide me, nurture me some more, and help me try again. He knows my eyes are on Him. This is what is so joyful about being a Christian. Our lives are based on forgiveness. We aren’t so great at it, but God is. He forgives and forgives, in dimensions that we are clueless about. While praying in front of the Eucharist or tabernacle, we can learn to “just be” and to “be still” and know that we are enough. What a concept! Whether I am divorced, whether I have an exhusband or a husband, or a legal husband or nonlegal exhausband, it truly doesn’t matter!!! It doesn’t matter if I remarry, whether I dye my hair blue or whether I eat tiramasu for breakfast. That is just the tiny stuff in life. The BIG picture is God…I can quiet my heart and just be with Him in His Quiet, surrender every worry, and every concern, every mistake,and just be there with Him …and give Him my tiny heart in exchange for His big heart!!! That’s the deal!
It is fun to talk about the details of whether a marriage is valid or not valid, what to call our exes or our spouses, what to do about the annulment process…but none of these things really are ultimately what matter…they are just details. God is so much more than that.
My divorce is just a detail that God is using to teach me about how to draw closer to Him. If I somehow had figured out how to stay married, then God would have used some other issue to teach me the very same lesson. The divorce in itself really doesn’t matter, although it hurts, and on some days it feels like it is on the front of my teeshirt. But the reality, in the long run, in the Big Picture, is that my ex and I will be reunited in heaven in glorifying our God. In the meantime, I have to look at my marriage/ divorce as just “the way” God is using to help me and my ex to grow closer to Him.
I prefer to call my ex an “exhusband” because in my mind, it sets a very clear boundary. If I thought I might get back together with him on earth, then I would not call him that. But I have made the decision to never live with him again. It is a good decision. Ex means “in the past” and living with that particular man is definately in the past. So, that is the choice I have made. Each of us have to make our own decisions on that, and then live with the consequences of it. I believe in the bottom of my heart that God is good with it. It has taken much prayer and discernment and listening to God for me to feel comfortable with that. “Discernment” is the place I am at now. Praying and listening and watching for God …seeing God in all the little things in my life…knowing God will do little miracles regularly to let me know He is there and He is with me and that He loves me…seeing God as a witness to every single little thing, and knowing He cares so much that He doesn’t get unravelled by any of it…
Blessings…
F
FCGeorge
Guest
Hello Rainbow, first of all, I love the rhyme. Who would have ever thought to put “die my hair blue” with “tiramisu”!?!? 4 claps in each!!!
Our blessed Lord plainly taught that eating even “tiramisu” is not sinful (in moderation of course)
Matthew 15:11 It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.
But He also plainly taught that it does matter if we divorce and “remarry.”
Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
And St. Paul taught that committing adultery is kind of a big deal…
1 Corinthians 6:9
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
As long as “inheriting the kingdom of God” is a big deal.
I am curious how it is that your husband can be such a bad guy who is so horrible to your children and will traumatize your children by reuniting with you and will never change and yet you still believe that he is going to join you in heaven? (I am not saying that none of those things are true, I am just wondering how they could all be true.)
The ignorance would need to be of no fault of my own. In other words, I truly desired to obey God but just had no possible way to find and know the Truth. Maybe being born in a jungle and raised by a band of gorillas I would not be held accountable for stealing my brothers bamboo. In the US, however, the vast, vast, majority of us have access to Church teaching.
If I truly want to know if contracepting is okay then the vast majority of us can find that out.
God doesn’t “chunk us into Hell.” That is a misconception of God that many atheists have. This isn’t the case at all. We freely choose to separate ourselves from God. God does not forcefully prevent us from walking away from Him in this life and that choice is what leads to eternal separation from Him. Should I choose to “remarry” and be an adulterer then I am choosing to walk away from Him. Should I choose to be abusive to my children and spouse then I am choosing to walk away from Him.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
C
christlifer
Guest
I have skimmed this thread on Divorce. I am new to this forum
and have a question on this subject.
Maybe someone here can help me.
When a non Catholic divorces three times, then converts to
Catholicism, how can the Catholic church accept this person
when his previous three wives are still alive? This makes him
an adulterer doesn’t it?
Thanks for any help you can give. Including Scripture in your
answer is always a plus.
christlifer
and have a question on this subject.
Maybe someone here can help me.
When a non Catholic divorces three times, then converts to
Catholicism, how can the Catholic church accept this person
when his previous three wives are still alive? This makes him
an adulterer doesn’t it?
Thanks for any help you can give. Including Scripture in your
answer is always a plus.
christlifer
E
EvelynEVF
Guest
Because there would be a big difference in suggestions given between a young woman who has just recently been abandoned, and an older woman with a putative marriage that already ended. A decent vocations director wouldn’t look twice at the former, except to refer her for help. Plus if there is no civil divorce, it may be a very dramatic bump in the road but the marriage could be saved. We are given too little detail to really answer.
(Many people don’t seem to realize that a decree of nullity is not necessary just for remarriage. One must be free to marry to enter Religious life. One cannot just be divorced and have no desire to remarry.)
R
rainbow1
Guest
You made me laugh, and it is Monday morning before any coffee…gosh, just love tiramasu, or however you spell it! I am sure it is a God thing!
You were wondering how the varying comments that I made could all be true. It is*** all ***possible because of our Lord. Our Lord does not do things because they are “fair” in our eyes. He is beyond that pettiness that alot of us feel towards one another, especially in divorce. We can be screaming at the tops of our lungs, “This is right, this is wrong, he/she is severing himself/herself from our Lord, he/she is putting herself into hell by misconduct, she/he is going to get what is coming to her/him” and the Lord answers by asking if we are being loving and/or kind and that we should not fear.
It is not possible to read the Bible literally. There are loads of contradictions in it. We need to read the Bible with discernment…in other words, ask God to "come alive’ through what we read. We need to ask Him to teach us each day through his Word and through each of our daily experiences and to let us understand His Will.
Adultery is a horrible sin. Arguing without respect on CAF is a horrible sin. Who will judge? Not me. Perhaps the cruelty to random people is worse than a sin of passion. We never know how our words can permanently harm a person. We are a sex focused culture. I doubt God is obsessed with the things we are. I wasn’t implying to go out and do any random sin you would like. Quite the contrary, I was saying to go out and live a life with your face staring at our Lord…and a life submerged in the quiet Goodness of our Lord…and when a person does that, then the sins start falling away by the roadside, and don’t matter as much. It is all about the focus. If a person is absorbed in “being with” the Lord, and sharing with the Lord, then the rest of everything on this earth is tiny in comparison. It is just like how you love your wife regardless of whatever. You are not sitting their counting her sins trying to focus on each and every bad thing she does…you are looking at her attributes with great love hoping she will return this afternoon. In some large sense, you are very much still “with her” . I suspect you love to sit also in the Presence of our Lord, right?
I don’t think “inheriting the Kingdom of God” is such a big deal . (I know I will catch it for this comment .
) I think what is a big deal is to give my heart to our Lord each and every second and to be with Him, loving Him here on earth…He will figure out the rest…Blessings for a beautiful day…
G
Gorgias
Guest
Hi, Christlifer!
As Catholics, we believe that Christ raised marriage to the dignity of a sacrament; we look to the example of His actions at the wedding at Cana to help us reach this understanding. (After all, Jesus didn’t just do his miracles as party tricks or magic: there was always an underlying reason for His signs.)
With that in mind, the Church notes that natural marriage is possible among the baptized, but that sacramental marriage is what the baptized are aspiring to. Now, considering that the Body of Christ isn’t united (i.e., there are Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, and non-Catholic Christians), we realize that each group has their own set of requirements for a valid (sacramental) marriage. We, too, have our own standards, and we apply them to Catholics: we expect Catholics to follow valid form. For non-Catholics, we don’t expect that they’d follow our form (i.e., marry in a Catholic Church before a priest or deacon, etc), but our understanding of sacramental marriage (and of Christ’s injunction that such a marriage should be permanent) leads us to expect that all Christians (who are attempting a sacramental marriage) at least are bound to give proper consent to the marriage (without reservation) and not have any impediments to their marriage (e.g., aren’t already married, etc).
Now… sometimes it’s the case that things don’t go right at the point of the wedding: maybe one of the spouses didn’t have the proper understanding of marriage (i.e., s/he didn’t really consent to marriage as we understand it), or perhaps one of the spouses was hiding some important fact from the other, or maybe the minister made a mistake in his preparation and due diligence before the wedding.
We always presume that the marriage is valid, unless we find out otherwise (in a formal proceeding). But, if the marriage wasn’t valid in the first place, then the Church is willing to say that it wasn’t a sacramental marriage in the first place. (At that point, if the couple is together, they can get things in order and convalidate their marriage, which sets things right.) On the other hand, if they’re already civilly divorced, and do not wish to reconcile the marriage to the point that it’s a sacramental marriage, then they are able to move on with their lives. But, annulment is not “Catholic divorce”; it can never undo a valid marriage.
Now… to your particular question. How can someone, married three times, still attempt marriage in the Catholic Church? Well, if the conditions of the previous three marriages were all such that they were invalid, then it’s a possibility that s/he could marry again. However, it’s not common, and chances are, at least one of the three marriages will be found to have been valid.
Hope that helps…!
Blessings,
G.
T
TryingToLearn
Guest
Because forgiveness and salvation is God’s to give, not hers, not yours, and not mine. We can’t possibly know, we aren’t to judge. If God wills it, it can happen. And we know that His desire is that all of us, even her husband, join Him in Heaven…
And doing God’s will, even as an abandoned spouse, is still to love the spouse that left, in this case, loving them would be praying for their salvation. And as Sunday’s Gospel reminds us, true faith is approaching God with the certainty that He can do anything. Regardless of what her spouse might have done and may do between now and the moment of death, God can save him. Speaking to God with that sort of certainty, the same way the leper approached Christ and requested healing with a certainty that He could do it is demonstrating faith in God’s power.
How will He get her husband from where he is now to join her in Heaven? It may not even be possible for us to comprehend, but it’s not necessary that we understand how, just have the faith to know that God can do anything. So, whatever her husband has done and will do, it’s faith in God that tells her all that can be true and he still can join her in Heaven…
J
joanofarc2008
Guest
Sure Matthew 5:31-32
It is the unlawful part that the decree of nullity part seeks to investigate. If the marriage at the time that it took place was unlawful than the Sacramental part was invalid and did not happen. Now, that being said in the case that you mention considering there is no benefit of knowing the first was unlawful then until that it is established the second and third are unlawful as per ligamen. Now, once the first is established is unlawful then it is looking at the second and then the third.
This is a decent video
R
rainbow1
Guest
I had prayed alot about it years ago, and God so comforted me. I am completely trusting God to heal him and also myself. I have never been in my ex’s shoes, but I can only imagine having been married to me was not the easiest road
… I am fully wishing for my ex to be finally happy one day…so I can only imagine what the Good Lord wants for him… …I am sure He has wonderful plans for him, and that makes me really happy…and leaves me in a place that I don’t worry so much about the present day difficulties…it will work out in eternity …I agree that our Lord can do anything…I think sometimes about the little ways that our Lord presents himself and weaves himself into my daily life. It is so amazing… the tiny ways and the little miracles in which He lets me know how much He cares. If He is willing to do that on a daily basis now, even considering the mess of my life, I just know that He will bring such amazing things to fruition in eternity…
F
FCGeorge
Guest
Hello Evelyn, Hidden in this comment is one of the very powerful lies that comes from the father of all lies. Sadly, I have talked with a couple of priests who even have come to believe the lie.
The lie is that a civil divorce is proof positive that there will never be reconciliation. Your comment leaves the impression that if there is no civil divorce then the marriage could be saved BUT if there has been a civil divorce then there is no chance.
This is exactly what the devil wants us to believe. He wants us to believe that a civil divorce has this power.
Here is a website with stories proving this false…
rejoiceministries.org/
Sadly, almost every story I have found with of couples who have civilly divorced and then later reconciled is a story of Protestants. Why is that?
My guess…
Catholics seem to fall prey to this lie that if there has been a civil divorce then there is no chance of ever reconciling. Therefore, you should go and seek your annulment and “move on.” The annulment process does not bring about reconciliation… especially when people are “seeking” an annulment. They already have their desired end in mind.
Anyway, I would be interested in hearing what the actual poster of the question had in mind.
I still do not see what power a civil divorce would have in this but maybe he/she has thought of something that I haven’t.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
- Status