DNC delegates drop 'under God' from Pledge of Allegiance

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1cthlctrth said:
It’s indicative of the Democratic Party’s hostility towards religion. One of the more shocking examples of this was forcing the Little Sisters of the Poor to pay for abortifacients. I mean, really.
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No, that’s not what the question is. It wasn’t meant as an opening to bash Obama.

What does one nation under God mean to you? What does being under God mean?
 
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Victoria33 said:
So you say. Do you have a source? That’s a point of contention and the Supreme Court has not ruled on that.

So, please, don’t label “Conservatives”, a negative, don’t understand something. Your assertion is not backed up anywhere.
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Do you know what the argument was before prayer was banned in schools? Conservatives wanted only the New Testament read to children. Fact.

Did Roy Moore in AL post a sign saying ‘Respect All Religions’, or did he post the 10 Commandments? If conservatives want religion in schools, why do they complain about the teaching of yoga, which they believe imports Hinduism? I thought they’d like a little religion in kids’ lives.

“A small but vocal group of parents, spurred on by the head of a local conservative advocacy group, has likened these 30-minute yoga classes to religious indoctrination. They say the classes — part of a comprehensive program offered to all public school students in this affluent suburb north of San Diego — represent a violation of the First Amendment.”

www.nytimes.com

Yoga Class Draws a Religious Protest (Published 2012)

A small but vocal group of parents, spurred on by the head of a local conservative advocacy group, have likened the 30-minute classes to religious indoctrination.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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“…our nation, without God… liberty and justice for us…”

DNC = CCP Lite

So many similarities.
 
Nepperhan said:
Do you know what the argument was before prayer was banned in schools? Conservatives wanted only the New Testament read to children. Fact.
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they just wanted to save souls
I want us to consider the following quote from the self-proclaimed atheist Penn Jillette. He states:
“I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and a hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward—and atheists who think people shouldn’t proselytize and who say just leave me along and keep your religion to yourself—how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?
“I mean, if I believed, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you, and you didn’t believe that truck was bearing down on you, there is a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that.”
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they just wanted to save souls
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Penn Jillette is only saying that to justify his anti-theism. It’s common for New Atheists like him to depict all Christians as needing to constantly attempt to undermine secular society as a reason for Christianity being dangerous. Any Christian that doesn’t want to enforce their religion into public life can be dismissed as not following the tenets of their faith properly. Conservatives do a similar thing with Muslims. I am unsure why you would attempt to use it for a pro-Christian statement like that.

At any rate the people pushing all of that stuff are probably Evangelicals or other Protestants who aren’t too friendly towards Catholics. I will say that the existence of a state that refuses to take an impartial view towards all religions has not historically always been to the benefit of Catholics.
 
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In my country, we have religious teaching as part of the public education curriculum. The main ones are three: Christianity, Islam, Hinduism. Depending on where you live/go to school, you will learn one of them, regardless of your personal religious affiliation. As a result, we don’t tend to view Islam as an inherently dangerous religion and we tend to have a basic idea of its tenets.

I’ve never heard complaints until recently when some atheists supported by Western organizations started trying to push the American view (No religion at all in schools) on the basis of our constitution which largely (but not exclusively) modelled itself after the U.S. constitution. I was glad when virtually the entire society, whatever religious affiliation, told them to take a long hike.

Everyone, it seems, wants children taught basic religion and basic moral precepts and do things like praying at parade at school/class every morning. Even if their kids go to a school that teaches, say, Islam or Hinduism, when the kid is Christian (and vice versa). They assume the religious education offered as a school subject will be supplemented by Madrassas (when the kid is Muslim) or Sunday school/Catechism (when the kid is Christian) or the Hindu version of at-home religious training or whatever the parents want their kid to learn.

I don’t know who spread this idea that religion is inherently bad/dangerous when few things are so universal/human as religion, if we look at all cultures that have ever existed. In fact, I’d argue lacking exposure to religion, lived and practiced, is a big disservice to anyone wanting a well-rounded understanding of human life and society.
 
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Well personally it’s just a mockery the way God is being used as a political football by both sides of politics here in the US.
 
1cthlctrth said:
Congress didn’t make a law.
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Yep, they did:

www.law.cornell.edu

4 U.S. Code § 4 - Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

4 U.S. Code § 4.Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery​

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The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans may render the military salute in the manner provided for persons in uniform.

(Added Pub. L. 105–225, § 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1494; amended Pub. L. 107–293, § 2(a), Nov. 13, 2002, 116 Stat. 2060; Pub. L. 113–66, div. A, title V, § 586, Dec. 26, 2013, 127 Stat. 777.)
 
None of the Democrats were sent to jail for removing “God” from the pledge of allegiance.
 
I don’t know about the UK, but the whole basis for the liberties in our constitution is that they are/were granted by God, not by men. In other words, they are inherent to being human and should not be violated by men. So the mention of God in things like the Pledge of Allegiance isn’t proselytizing religion. It’s a statement that our liberties are “stand alone” or inherent.
 
young people also need salvation

which reaches more young people?
 
I’m still surprised when anyone argues for prayer in school lead by teachers. Prayer itself by students is allowed. It just doesn’t have a set aside time for it.

I used to have to say the prayer before class started. It was the Lord’s Prayer…definitely not a Jewish prayer. I was told by my mom to just bow my head but not say it. My teacher saw that I wasn’t saying it and good little Baptist that she was, made me get up in front of the class and recite it to the class. Needless to say, my mother was furious. The school wouldn’t fire the teacher over it…this was in Florida…so the compromise was to switch me to another class. I’m sorry, but no child should have to go through that. I was humiliated even though I didn’t understand why what I did was so wrong!

For the pledge, I’m not under God. It wasn’t originally in the pledge and it serves no real purpose being in there except that christians like it and no one else does. It would be more appropriate to say under Canada in my view.

As far as Christians being obligated to evangelize…I have the right as well to not be evangelized, thankyouverymuch! Today, anyone that wants to hear the Christian message is more than welcome to ask. Many churches are more than happy to oblige. Ifu someone has no interest, they shouldn’t be subjected to it. Not in school, not on the street nor by their government. /r
 
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I’m not sure of catholic schools in the 1960’s but it was mandatory morning prayer in public schools. Even though Madeline Murray O’Hare became famous for this battle, it was actually more due to the Jewish community organizing against it. My situation was unfortunately all too common, especially in areas with small Jewish populations and in the south. In the south, we also sang Dixie every morning…segregation was still in force but if they made black children sing this, I’m horrified! As best I remember, when school prayer ended, so did the singing of Dixie.
 
I’ve noticed that Brits call private school public…what do you call our version of public? :hugs:
 
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