Do all Christians have to become Catholic prior to entering heaven?

[JonNC]

if anyone can enter Heaven without being in the Catholic Church, then why Jesus would find One Church? what is the point of having One Church? and why Jesus point out that at the end many would say Lord, Lord… have i not done this and that in your name? and Jesus says: depart from me i dont know you. arent these people also christians? but yet they are not pleasing to our Lord. Why is that?

Peace to all.

Jimmy,
Our friend wisdomseeker seems to imply that, I, as a Lutheran,
will be one of those who says “Lord, Lord”, and is cast out because I wasn’t in communion with the Bishop of Rome. And while I know wisdomseeker was not speaking specifically of me, let’s use me as an example.
You only know me via this forum, but of what I have written, and the way I have handled myself, what say you? How do you read the CCC 817-820 (or thereabouts)?

Jon

 

[Jimmy_B]

I thought their was only 1 thing of the ten commandments, what section is it in the bible? I will type what my bible says, and see if its like them.

**Here , is information on the Ten Commandments and where they are found in the Bible. **

The problem here, is not whether or not the Ten Commandments are in the Bible, because they are. The problem is, how is the bible interpreted and how are the Ten Commandments interpreted.

The Catholic Church has defined the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments as a mortal sin and the Catholic Church has also defined, how these Commandments are broken; just as other non-Catholic Christian denominations have.

So, who has the ultimate authority to define the Ten Commandments?

**Who has the authority to say, what constitutes, breaking one of the Commandments? **

For instance, some non-Catholic, “Christian” denominations support abortion and do not regard abortion as a mortal sin, where the Catholic Church views abortion as murder.

Do you see the problem here? This is one of the major problems, which occurs when people follow the errant Protestant, non-Catholic Christian belief, which allows for “personal interpretation of the Bible”.

This was the beginning of the “slippery slope” for non-Catholic Christianity and is why there exist so many different non-Catholic, Protestant, Christian denominations today…all having different views of what is right and what is wrong…what is sin and what is not…

If you hold the wrong beliefs, you could have a problem when God finally judges you….

Violation of serious sins is serious business…

**It all comes down to authority….who did God give the authority? **

Peace

 

[wisdomseeker]

Here , is information on the Ten Commandments and where they are found in the Bible.

The problem here, is not whether or not the Ten Commandments are in the Bible, because they are. The problem is, how is the bible interpreted and how are the Ten Commandments interpreted.

The Catholic Church has defined the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments as a mortal sin and the Catholic Church has also defined, how these Commandments are broken; just as other non-Catholic Christian denominations have.

So, who has the ultimate authority to define the Ten Commandments?

**Who has the authority to say, what constitutes, breaking one of the Commandments? **

For instance, some non-Catholic, “Christian” denominations support abortion and do not regard abortion as a mortal sin, where the Catholic Church views abortion as murder.

Do you see the problem here? This is one of the major problems, which occurs when people follow the errant Protestant, non-Catholic Christian belief, which allows for “personal interpretation of the Bible”.

This was the beginning of the “slippery slope” for non-Catholic Christianity and is why there exist so many different non-Catholic, Protestant, Christian denominations today…all having different views of what is right and what is wrong…what is sin and what is not…

If you hold the wrong beliefs, you could have a problem when God finally judges you….

Violation of serious sins is serious business…

**It all comes down to authority….who did God give the authority? **

Peace

Romans 1:18, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth.”

 

[Jimmy_B]

Jimmy,
Our friend wisdomseeker seems to imply that, I, as a Lutheran,
will be one of those who says “Lord, Lord”, and is cast out because I wasn’t in communion with the Bishop of Rome. And while I know wisdomseeker was not speaking specifically of me, let’s use me as an example.
You only know me via this forum, but of what I have written, and the way I have handled myself, what say you? How do you read the CCC 817-820 (or thereabouts)?

Jon

Hello Jon,

I’m to happy to see that you are reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I am a Catholic, so you know that I not believe in “personal interpretation”, in the Protestant sense. I can only “interpret” in a way that does not conflict with Catholicism. That is why I try to I bring up topics, ask questions, use Catholic sources and the Bible for my responses.

The Catechism, always cites the Bible, Fathers of the Church and Doctors of the Church. It is an excellent Christian resource. .

Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

CCC 817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

CCC 820 “Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time." Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: “That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me.” The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.

We know that God’s mercy is infinite, so all properly baptized Christians who obey God, have the hope of salvation, just as Catholics have the hope of salvation.

Merely, belonging to the Catholic Church, does not guarantee entry into heaven. Catholics too, can be guilty of the verse mentioned where; they say “Lord”, “Lord” and do not obey God.

I am not always a good Catholic, in fact… there are many times when I am a “bad” Catholic but I do not reject any beliefs found in Catholicism, I just, do not always follow them, as I should.

This is why the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation (Confession), is such an important aspect of Christianity.

Additionally, as Roman Catholic, I believe that the more one has in common with Catholic beliefs and behavior, and the less, willful rejection of any known Christian truth, the better.

Keep in mind that all those thing that are true and good in other denominations are, “true and good”….Truth and goodness does not change.

Many non-Catholic Christian denominations contain Christian truths, however, they represent partial truth, where the Catholic Church, represents the Full Deposit of Faith; this is support biblically, traditionally and historically.

If you are a Christian (generally speaking), then why aren’t you a Roman Catholic?

I know that you and I have much in common and that most of this isn’t new information for you (I can tell by your posts) but I am also addressing other posters here, I hope you don’t mine.

Does this help?

Peace

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Jimmy,
Our friend wisdomseeker seems to imply that, I, as a Lutheran,
will be one of those who says “Lord, Lord”, and is cast out because I wasn’t in communion with the Bishop of Rome. And while I know wisdomseeker was not speaking specifically of me, let’s use me as an example.
You only know me via this forum, but of what I have written, and the way I have handled myself, what say you? How do you read the CCC 817-820 (or thereabouts)?

Jon

jon you are very much loved here. and i tell you, you are not too far from the Kingdom. i hope some day very soon you will be one with us.

Romans 1:18, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth."

 

[Jimmy_B]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

**1058 **The Church prays that no one should be lost: “Lord, let me never be parted from you.” If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him “all things are possible” (*Mt *19:26).

**1281 **Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. *LG *16).

**74 **God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”: that is, of Christ Jesus. Christ must be proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth:

God graciously arranged that the things he had once revealed for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.

**977 **Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved.” Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that “we too might walk in newness of life.”

**183 **Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (*Mk *16:16).

**2822 **Our Father “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” He “is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish.” His commandment is “that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” This commandment summarizes all the others and expresses his entire will.

**620 **Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (1 Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (*2 Cor *5:19).

**1257 **The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

 

[JonNC]

jon you are very much loved here. and i tell you, you are not too far from the Kingdom. i hope some day very soon you will be one with us.

Romans 1:18, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth."

You are very kind.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Hello Jon,

I’m to happy to see that you are reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I am a Catholic, so you know that I not believe in “personal interpretation”, in the Protestant sense. I can only “interpret” in a way that does not conflict with Catholicism. That is why I try to I bring up topics, ask questions, use Catholic sources and the Bible for my responses.

The Catechism, always cites the Bible, Fathers of the Church and Doctors of the Church. It is an excellent Christian resource. .

We know that God’s mercy is infinite, so all properly baptized Christians who obey God, have the hope of salvation, just as Catholics have the hope of salvation.

Merely, belonging to the Catholic Church, does not guarantee entry into heaven. Catholics too, can be guilty of the verse mentioned where; they say “Lord”, “Lord” and do not obey God.

I am not always a good Catholic, in fact… there are many times when I am a “bad” Catholic but I do not reject any beliefs found in Catholicism, I just, do not always follow them, as I should.

This is why the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation (Confession), is such an important aspect of Christianity.

Additionally, as Roman Catholic, I believe that the more one has in common with Catholic beliefs and behavior, and the less, willful rejection of any known Christian truth, the better.

Keep in mind that all those thing that are true and good in other denominations are, “true and good”….Truth and goodness does not change.

Many non-Catholic Christian denominations contain Christian truths, however, they represent partial truth, where the Catholic Church, represents the Full Deposit of Faith; this is support biblically, traditionally and historically.

If you are a Christian (generally speaking), then why aren’t you a Roman Catholic?

I know that you and I have much in common and that most of this isn’t new information for you (I can tell by your posts) but I am also addressing other posters here, I hope you don’t mine.

Does this help?

Peace

Of course I don’t mind. Sometimes making something personal (not in a negative sense, but in the sense that we are talking about a real person) helps to clarify what beliefs really do mean.
That was my only purpose here, and you answered the question quite well.

Jon

 

[wooka64]

I think they are for the most part the same But from reading what
you put out.
The catholic version is more Complete.And to be Truthful to my self .

I Follow more of the Catholic view on the Ten Commandments But i
am more Baptist . I believe Abortion is a Mortal Sin. I Consider the Catholic a Brother in Christ now more then i
ever did before. God Answer your Prays and mine so I don’t see a
big differences. But you are Right we will get Judged on how we

interpret the commands we can not accept sin. It just seems that

Protestant version is the same but to me seems missing one

command that the catholic has. I just have one question why do Catholic pray to Marry.

To be Honest to my self the Main Reason why i have not consider becoming a Catholic is cause I don’t know much about the pope, and I don’t know why Catholic pray to marry. I heard you consider Paul to be a pope. Paul from the Bible used to be Saul.

To sum it all Up. I don’t think its biblical to Pray to marry. But i tell you what. IF you are Right And Jesus Told me i had to be Catholic then i would convert For he is my Master.

 

[Lil_Cat]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.

Is it no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?

Or is it no salvation outside of the catholic church?

In all honesty I’m curious. Can you provide a source?

 

[thirdn6]

Jimmy,
Our friend wisdomseeker seems to imply that, I, as a Lutheran,
will be one of those who says “Lord, Lord”, and is cast out because I wasn’t in communion with the Bishop of Rome. And while I know wisdomseeker was not speaking specifically of me, let’s use me as an example.
You only know me via this forum, but of what I have written, and the way I have handled myself, what say you? How do you read the CCC 817-820 (or thereabouts)?

Jon

Please see post #5.

To your question…the bible’s answer…

“8* But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. ***9 **As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.” RSV Galatians Chapter 1

Do you think St. Paul is talking about some ‘pagan’ gospel here being preached to the Galatians?.. or adulterated Christian gospel by those who walked away from Jesus?
When Paul said, “we”… what is he refering to? A group of people, correct? And we all know that there was only one group of Christian people at the time- the Catholic Church! So then, even if a person is a Catholic if he preaches a gospel (doctrine) contrary to that which taught by the Church, he is to be accursed (now excommunicated).
Am I right, Jimmy?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Please see post #5.

To your question…the bible’s answer…

“8* But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. ***9 ****As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.” RSV Galatians Chapter 1

Do you think St. Paul is talking about some ‘pagan’ gospel here being preached to the Galatians?.. or adulterated Christian gospel by those who walked away from Jesus?
When Paul said, “we”… what is he refering to? A group of people, correct? And we all know that there was only one group of Christian people at the time- the Catholic Church! So then, even if a person is a Catholic if he preaches a gospel (doctrine) contrary to that which taught by the Church, he is to be accursed (now excommunicated).
Am I right, Jimmy?

Hello thirdn6,

You’re right, Catholics were given free-will, just like everybody else and this includes the free-will to error in their personal beliefs and behavior. Catholics cannot knowingly hold beliefs contrary to Catholicism and not be in error. The key word here however, is “knowingly”. Lay Catholics, like everybody else, make mistakes and are wrong occasionally, some more than others… Unlike the Criminal Justice System though, where there are general intent and specific intent crimes, sin usually involves, specific intent, or willful knowledge.

As far as who Saint Paul is referring to in his letters, I believe that in most cases he is either referring to other Christians within the same Church, who need clarification or to Pagans. We know this, because there is usually a reference verse describing his target audience.

I know that the Gnostics and other “dissenting Christians” are not mentioned by name in the Bible but this might be because these groups may have formed after Paul’s letters or that Paul was not aware of these groups. I imagine that these groups were fairly small during Paul’s time.

Good question though, maybe someone else here, could provide a better explanation or answer.

Peace

 

[iNs1d3tRiP]

I am Catholic so please correct me if I am in error for thinking this.

It makes sense to me from the limited theology that I have studied that being Catholic on Earth, or while living is not a requirement for entering the Kingdom of God. However, I do believe that many denominations which support deism or other such heresies would likely make it impossible to enter the Kingdom of God.

For example, if someone is baptized as a Baptist or a Episcopalian then they do not have to be baptized in the Catholic church as the Church acknowledges that baptism. However, I do believe that the Catholic church has the greatest understanding of Truth out of all Christian denominations.

I know there was controversy among many protestants when Pope Benedict said something like protestants should unite with Catholics because the Catholic church has the best understanding of Truth. Many protestants seemed to take this as condemning them but that’s not how I understood what he said.

Ultimately, we don’t truly know who will enter the Kingdom of God do we?

 

[BareKnuckler]

I know there was controversy among many protestants when Pope Benedict said something like protestants should unite with Catholics because the Catholic church has the best understanding of Truth. Many protestants seemed to take this as condemning them but that’s not how I understood what he said.

When someone tells you that you should give up the faith you and your ancestors have had for a good while, because this person says his faith is better, I’d take that offensive.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I think they are for the most part the same But from reading what
you put out.
The catholic version is more Complete.And to be Truthful to my self .

I Follow more of the Catholic view on the Ten Commandments But i
am more Baptist . I believe Abortion is a Mortal Sin. I Consider the Catholic a Brother in Christ now more then i
ever did before. God Answer your Prays and mine so I don’t see a
big differences. But you are Right we will get Judged on how we

interpret the commands we can not accept sin. It just seems that

Protestant version is the same but to me seems missing one

command that the catholic has. I just have one question why do Catholic pray to Marry.

To be Honest to my self the Main Reason why i have not consider becoming a Catholic is cause I don’t know much about the pope, and I don’t know why Catholic pray to marry. I heard you consider Paul to be a pope. Paul from the Bible used to be Saul.

To sum it all Up. I don’t think its biblical to Pray to marry. But i tell you what. IF you are Right And Jesus Told me i had to be Catholic then i would convert For he is my Master.

I used to have questions about those things too before I became Catholic.

Catholics ask Mary to pray for us. We believe that she is alive an united to us in Jesus.

Here are some verses that support the Catholic position that I had never considered before conversion to Catholicism:

1)Those who have died in God’s good grace are alive and that these people aware of what is happening on earth.

Mark 12

Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses,‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 27 So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error.”

In Heb 11, the achievements of the Old Testament saints are reviewed with an emphasis on their faith. It ends by stating that they had not yet received salvation:

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Heb 12 starts like this:

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I believe this makes the case that those who have died physically are still alive and that they are witnesses to what occurs on earth.

1. Those in heaven are concerned about what happens on earth.

Luke 15

7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

1. That our prayers can be carried by intercessors to God.

Rev. 8

3Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

1. That the prayers of the righteous are worth pursuing.

James 5

The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.

To summarize, Catholics, as well as several other faiths, believe that once we are alive in Christ we remain alive in Christ. We also believe that those in heaven are aware and concerned about those still on earth. For this reason, we seek their intercessions given that they have been deemed righteous.

 

[nbtb1348]

I used to have questions about those things too before I became Catholic.

Catholics ask Mary to pray for us. We believe that she is alive an united to us in Jesus.

Here are some verses that support the Catholic position that I had never considered before conversion to Catholicism:

1)Those who have died in God’s good grace are alive and that these people aware of what is happening on earth.

Mark 12

Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses,‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 27 So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error.”

In Heb 11, the achievements of the Old Testament saints are reviewed with an emphasis on their faith. It ends by stating that they had not yet received salvation:

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Heb 12 starts like this:

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I believe this makes the case that those who have died physically are still alive and that they are witnesses to what occurs on earth.

1. Those in heaven are concerned about what happens on earth.

Luke 15

7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

1. That our prayers can be carried by intercessors to God.

Rev. 8

3Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

1. That the prayers of the righteous are worth pursuing.

James 5

The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.

To summarize, Catholics, as well as several other faiths, believe that once we are alive in Christ we remain alive in Christ. We also believe that those in heaven are aware and concerned about those still on earth. For this reason, we seek their intercessions given that they have been deemed righteous.

The thread question is sort of redundant. It’s like asking if all Texans have to go to Dallas to be called Texans. (Errr…something like that!)
But three things are true:

1. All Christians are going to heaven
2. Christians do not have to become Roman Catholic to go to heaven. And…
3. All Catholics have to become Christians if they want to go to heaven.

Need scripture?

 

[Jimmy_B]

The thread question is sort of redundant. It’s like asking if all Texans have to go to Dallas to be called Texans. (Errr…something like that!)
But three things are true:

1. All Christians are going to heaven

Would this include unrepentant murderers, rapists and so on?

2. Christians do not have to become Roman Catholic to go to heaven. And…

How do you know this to be true? What is the basis for this belief?

3. All Catholics have to become Christians if they want to go to heaven.

What is your definition of “Christian”?

Need scripture?

Yes, please.

Thanks

 

[wooka64]

OK I see why Catholic do their prays to marry now. But like we said

before with interpret. Alive as it is used could mean that they are in

Heaven and have escaped the second Death. I believe olny Jesus

still alive for he Died and resurrected. I would need to study the bible

more to argue a point but it does not Realy matter. Cathlice are

follower of Jesus there for your going to heaven.

Answer another question Paul could of been Referring to Muslim

and groups like that Muslim Believe Jesus is a Prophets don’t

Follow Jesus for who he is. I believe he said as long as you don’t

Stray from The main point that is Jesus you are saved. But you

In lighten me about people who are saved still worry about stuff

on earth i Believe i have come across that in the bible just never

gave it much thought. As for the first Church being Catholic I

don’t think so. The first European church was probably.

 

[M_catholic]

hmmmm, will God asks every person if he/she is a catholic before God permits one to enter His Kingdom?