Do all Christians have to become Catholic prior to entering heaven?

[wisdomseeker]

OK I see why Catholic do their prays to marry now. But like we said

before with interpret. Alive as it is used could mean that they are in

Heaven and have escaped the second Death. I believe olny Jesus

still alive for he Died and resurrected. I would need to study the bible

more to argue a point but it does not Realy matter. Cathlice are

follower of Jesus there for your going to heaven.

Answer another question Paul could of been Referring to Muslim

and groups like that Muslim Believe Jesus is a Prophets don’t

Follow Jesus for who he is. I believe he said as long as you don’t

Stray from The main point that is Jesus you are saved. But you

In lighten me about people who are saved still worry about stuff

on earth i Believe i have come across that in the bible just never

gave it much thought. As for the first Church being Catholic I

don’t think so. The first European church was probably.

Tell us why are you afraid of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

**St. Thomas Aquinas concurs: “To reject but one article of faith taught by the Church is enough to destroy faith as one mortal sin is enough to destroy charity…” **

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Is it no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?

Or is it no salvation outside of the catholic church?

In all honesty I’m curious. Can you provide a source?

My source is Jesus Christ.

 

[Lil_Cat]

My source is Jesus Christ.

Nice evasion to the question

I’ll ask again. Catholic or catholic? Same word, yet drastically different meanings.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Nice evasion to the question

I’ll ask again. Catholic or catholic? Same word, yet drastically different meanings.

People who capitalize Catholic and then not capitalize it makes me laugh, like it’s two different denominations or something…how about Protestant or protestant??

 

[Lil_Cat]

People who capitalize Catholic and then not capitalize it makes me laugh, like it’s two different denominations or something…how about Protestant or protestant??

Very charitable answer.

I give up.

 

[reteeks21]

I don’t know. You tell us.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

As for the first Church being Catholic I

don’t think so. The first European church was probably. QUOTE]

Which Church could this be?

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Here’s St. Ignatius, a disciple of the apostle John, writing in about 105 AD:

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, **there is the Catholic Church. **

 

[JonNC]

Please see post #5.

To your question…the bible’s answer…

“8* But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. ***9 ****As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.” RSV Galatians Chapter 1

Do you think St. Paul is talking about some ‘pagan’ gospel here being preached to the Galatians?.. or adulterated Christian gospel by those who walked away from Jesus?
When Paul said, “we”… what is he refering to? A group of people, correct? And we all know that there was only one group of Christian people at the time- the Catholic Church! So then, even if a person is a Catholic if he preaches a gospel (doctrine) contrary to that which taught by the Church, he is to be accursed (now excommunicated).
Am I right, Jimmy?

I guess the question would be are you and I “preaching” different gospels. We may have differences in what we believe about the gospel of Christ, but I don’t believe we preach a different gospel. There are protestants who claim Catholicism teaches a different Gospel. I disagree.

Here is what the CCC says:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 **"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers **. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Jon

 

[greystoke]

http://www.theopedia.com/images/thumb/3/36/JesusAscension.jpg/265px-JesusAscension.jpg

Do all Christians have to become Catholic prior to entering heaven?

When a non-Catholic Christian dies, is there a point where he/she becomes Catholic, prior to entering heaven?

If Purgatory exists, then it exists for everyone, even non-Catholics, so, do non-Catholics become Catholic while in Purgatory?

*There is only One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, in Full Communion with all of the Angels and Saints…. *

Therefore, there is suppose to be one Christian faith in heaven and on earth, one united belief… right?

*Christianity, isn’t divided in heaven, so there must be only one Christian faith and one Christian belief…and if this is true, then why are there so many, who are upset when Catholics refuse to compromise, when it comes to their Catholic beliefs? *

*For instance, for those “Christians’ and “Christian denominations” who support, or believe in gay marriage and abortion, if they are wrong and do not change their beliefs….they don’t go to heaven….right? *

It isn’t possible for all denominations, which all have different moral beliefs, to be right.

*When it comes to Christian beliefs concerning issues of faith and morals, there must be one united belief….one Christian religion. *

So, doesn’t’ it follow that everyone in heaven is Catholic? At what point do non-Catholics become Catholic before entering heaven?

Something to think about…

Your Thoughts?

Thank you!

No!

Nor do Jews.

Nor, I believe, do atheists or pagans who do as the righteous do in Matthew 25.31-46. Remember:

“I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink…”

Neither Abraham, nor Moses, nor Isaiah, nor Mary and Joseph, nor the good centurion, nor the Apostles were ever baptized. They were righteous Jews.

As for the Twelve, and later followers of Christ, before Constantine, you could be both Jew and Christian.

greystoke

 

[thirdn6]

I guess the question would be are you and I “preaching” different gospels. We may have differences in what we believe about the gospel of Christ, but I don’t believe we preach a different gospel. There are protestants who claim Catholicism teaches a different Gospel. I disagree.

Here is what the CCC says:

Jon

But can heresies be NOT contrary to the gospel? Why do the Catholic Church condemn heresies? Who preaches heresies- pagans? No! Mostly Christians separated from the Catholic Church preach heresies- that includes protestants, you agree?

True, we are supposed to call them Christian brothers on account of having the same valid Trinitarian baptism, as quoted in the CCC, but does the CCC tell us or recognize them as fully united with the body of Christ? As far as I know, protestant Christians are still considered “SEPARATED” from the Church and are not permitted to participate in our Eucharist. What does that mean?

Seeing any non-Catholic Christian church as “another means” of salvation, base on your quote, is, I think, a misrepresentation of what the Magesterium meant. If I may continue from your quote…

“820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time. "Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. … The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.” CCC

We are all called to that unity in Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church. We are all gifted with universal grace and special gift of the Holy Spirit in order to be able to respond positively to that call. The CCC never said that remaining on your respective churches will be enough to attain salvation.

My analogy: The Catholic Church is like a prime contractor called to build a bridge. She cannot be awarded and later complete that project if she is deficient in anything at all. She may not need help from sub-contractors, which are, ecclesial communities in this analogy- that including protestants. This bridge cannot be completely built, in anyway, by any of these sub-contractors with their own methods and specifications. But they can be ‘means’ by which the building can be made faster if they learn of the call and participate. If they participate, they are ‘united’ with the prime contractor and had to comply with all what’s agreed upon between the prime and the owner. They cannot bring and use their own specs and methods that are ‘contrary’ to what the prime and the Owner require.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

“*846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from *(the calling) ***Christ the Head through ***(the means) the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.” (not italics mine)

“847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience- those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

“848 Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men”.

Now, Jon, will you be responding to that call but be your own?
God bless…

 

[uglygal]

I have been following this thread and would like some clarification if any catholic would be kind enough to give me some clarification.

Is the crux of Jimmy’s/Catholics position that the “christ god” demands one to be Roman Catholic as a condition of entering heaven and if this condition is absent than even good deeds and purity of heart is not enough to enter his heaven?

Have I understood this correctly?

If so is this derived solely from tradition and the clergy or does Jesus state in scripture that being part of Roman Catholicism is necessary. If so, where? Or is it interposed by clergy interpretation?

I would appreciate clarification.

Thanks

 

[wooka64]

I’m not afraid of the Catholic Church. I just don’t Thinks all the stuff practiced in the Catholic church is Biblical.

pray To marry or any saints. Nobody does this but the Catholic. A point i might add here would be Paul in the Bible he never prayed to marry. My second is that Jesus already told us how we should pray.

One might argue that its the same as asking my friend to pray for

me but its not. For if my friend alive then its ok. But i never heard of

asking Dead people to pray for me. I believe the saints are

alive in a since they escape the second death. But only Jesus Christ has ,the authority to pray for us. For no one can get to the Father But Through Jesus Christ.

I Guess last but not least The pope. I don’t know which one but

one claimed that you had to be Catholic to get to heaven Where

in the bible does it say that? All it says is Believe in the son of god has Risen you are saved it does not say you have to belong to specific Christan Group.

But it also say don’t add on or take away from it.Basically stick

to the main point Jesus is the son of God Savior to the world.
Hey their was a time when i Totally did not Like the Catholic

church I mentioned it on my other forms so i wont get into it here.

The fact that Joined this forms means i consider you a Christian.

Ultimately I just don’t Trust the pope. Why would a pope try to

divide the Christian faith On Trivial stuff like this. Like i said early

Jesus is the one and Only Pope . You can Confess your sin to

Jesus you need no body else.

1. I have to tell you this Story cause it needs to be told. One time

I was being i woke up and could not move my body. all i said was

Jesus and i could move again. One time I was Hearing Voice like a Crazy man I looked up to the sky And said God I was Normal Again.

One time I saw a spirte it Looked Pissed and like it wanted to rip

me to shread God saved me from it. The only thing i Adopted

from the catholic was the Cross pray because of that. God Helps

his own.If I was not going to heaven because i am not Catholic God would not of answer my prays .I would of been Posised or killed or

worst those are my reason friend. I thank God and Jesus

everyday for it.

 

[wooka64]

Catholic church did not Exists when Jesus was on the earth

Because Roam was Worshiping The Greek Gods. The only People

that were Christan were Jewdeo Christan. so I Really Doubt that. From what i Remember The Pharisees were hating On Jesus because he would not conform to their Church. Jesus even called some of their stuff in their church man mad. and that’s why alot of Jewish authority in the Church hated him so much. i kind of see this as no different. Yea you have to go to church but like i said. lets not fall in to the trap of Tradition. Jesus called a church that rejects him a church of Satan. But in this case both Church’s Catholic bathtis and protestant Believe in Christ. none fall into this category as a church of Satan.

 

[JonNC]

=thirdn6;4701462]But can heresies be NOT contrary to the gospel? Why do the Catholic Church condemn heresies? Who preaches heresies- pagans? No! Mostly Christians separated from the Catholic Church preach heresies- that includes protestants, you agree?

Of course I disagree, that my church teaches heresies, else I would not be a member. Do I believe that some churches teach heresies? Of course, else I would be a member.

True, we are supposed to call them Christian brothers on account of having the same valid Trinitarian baptism, as quoted in the CCC, but does the CCC tell us or recognize them as fully united with the body of Christ? As far as I know, protestant Christians are still considered “SEPARATED” from the Church and are not permitted to participate in our Eucharist. What does that mean?

That means we are not in full agreement on doctrine. My church practices close communion, as well. You are as separated from us as we are from you. It is a mutual separation - sad, but mutual.

“820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time. "Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. … The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.” CCC

We all, therefore, have an obligation to work to overcome the separation we mutually share, through ecumenical dialogue, together seeking the guidance of the HS. Check the USCCB or Vatican websites to see the progress made over the last few decades to this end. And it is interesting to note that in these areas of agreement, no one has had to give up what they believe. Instead, we have come to common understanding.

My analogy: The Catholic Church is like a prime contractor called to build a bridge. She cannot be awarded and later complete that project if she is deficient in anything at all. She may not need help from sub-contractors, which are, ecclesial communities in this analogy- that including protestants. This bridge cannot be completely built, in anyway, by any of these sub-contractors with their own methods and specifications. But they can be ‘means’ by which the building can be made faster if they learn of the call and participate. If they participate, they are ‘united’ with the prime contractor and had to comply with all what’s agreed upon between the prime and the owner. They cannot bring and use their own specs and methods that are ‘contrary’ to what the prime and the Owner require.

I will continue with your analogy, though it is in my mind presumptuous to assume that the churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome are the “prime contractors”, even as it would be presumptuous for me to consider my church thus.
The prime contractor, too, is wounded and less capable of completing the bridge unless it seeks to dialogue and come to agreement with the “sub-contractors”. As you said, “She may not need help from sub-contractors”. Then again, she may, and probably does. The specs for the bridge are dictated by the owner. If He is allowed, prime and sub contractors can be lead by him to common agreement, and closer cooperation for completing the bridge.

Now, Jon, will you be responding to that call but be your own?

I am responding to the call for unity. I pray for it everyday.

Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Catholic church did not Exists when Jesus was on the earth

Because Roam was Worshiping The Greek Gods. The only People

that were Christan were Jewdeo Christan. so I Really Doubt that. From what i Remember The Pharisees were hating On Jesus because he would not conform to their Church. Jesus even called some of their stuff in their church man mad. and that’s why alot of Jewish authority in the Church hated him so much. i kind of see this as no different. Yea you have to go to church but like i said. lets not fall in to the trap of Tradition. Jesus called a church that rejects him a church of Satan. But in this case both Church’s Catholic bathtis and protestant Believe in Christ. none fall into this category as a church of Satan.

The trap of Tradition?? Jesus Christ spoke without a bible, which is called Tradition. Are you saying that the words of Christ are a trap??

 

[wooka64]

Quote
The trap of Tradition?? Jesus Christ spoke without a bible, which is called Tradition. Are you saying that the words of Christ are a trap??

---

You are misquoting me. Christ was trying to save the Jews First,

I’m talking about Jewish Tradition. Some of Jesus disciples did not

follow all the Jewish ways. and the pharisee had a problem with it.

for example. Jesus was healing people on the sabbath and the

pharisee had a problem with it. and was questioning Jesus.

2.Washing of hands ceremony that is Jewish. Not all of Jesus

followers were doing this and it pissed a lot of Jews off. Mathews 15

1. My main point is that Jesus Heal on the sabbath according to

The laws your not suppose to work. Jesus did not scold t

his followers for not following the age old washing hand washing Tradition.

found in Mathews 15.

The Torah did exists he had the old testament Those tradition.

OK first off Jesus is the son of god. His father is the Jewish God.

To make my point i was trying to make earlyeir to be saved you

don’t have to have the same Tradition. as long As Jesus is the

main point you are saved.

We all know that Jesus and God and the Holy spirit are one.

3.Even Jesus said that some of those Tradition are man made It

pissed Jewish leaders off.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Quote
The trap of Tradition?? Jesus Christ spoke without a bible, which is called Tradition. Are you saying that the words of Christ are a trap??

---

You are misquoting me. Christ was trying to save the Jews First,

I’m talking about Jewish Tradition. Some of Jesus disciples did not

follow all the Jewish ways. and the pharisee had a problem with it.

for example. Jesus was healing people on the sabbath and the

pharisee had a problem with it. and was questioning Jesus.

2.Washing of hands ceremony that is Jewish. Not all of Jesus

followers were doing this and it pissed a lot of Jews off. Mathews 15

1. My main point is that Jesus Heal on the sabbath according to

The laws your not suppose to work. Jesus did not scold t

his followers for not following the age old washing hand washing Tradition.

found in Mathews 15.

The Torah did exists he had the old testament Those tradition.

OK first off Jesus is the son of god. His father is the Jewish God.

To make my point i was trying to make earlyeir to be saved you

don’t have to have the same Tradition. as long As Jesus is the

main point you are saved.

We all know that Jesus and God and the Holy spirit are one.

3.Even Jesus said that some of those Tradition are man made It

pissed Jewish leaders off.

Jesus chose the Jews to give the gentiles the Gospels. He even says so. Jesus was not speaking of Tradition in the words that you have misinterpreted. Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, but only if they were contrary to God’s commands (Mark 7:8). He **never **condemned Sacred Tradition, and He didn’t even condemn all human tradition.
Sacred Tradition and the Bible are not different or competing revelations. They are two ways that the church hands on the Gospel. Apostolic teachings such as the Trinity (which you believe right? But the word isn’t in the bible), infant baptism, the inerracy of the bible (which you also believe), purgatory, and Mary’s perpetual virginity have been most clearly taught through Tradition. The bible itself tells us to hold fast to Tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form (2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:2).

 

[nbtb1348]

Jesus chose the Jews to give the gentiles the Gospels. He even says so. Jesus was not speaking of Tradition in the words that you have misinterpreted. Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, but only if they were contrary to God’s commands (Mark 7:8). He **never **condemned Sacred Tradition, and He didn’t even condemn all human tradition.
Sacred Tradition and the Bible are not different or competing revelations. They are two ways that the church hands on the Gospel. Apostolic teachings such as the Trinity (which you believe right? But the word isn’t in the bible), infant baptism, the inerracy of the bible (which you also believe), purgatory, and Mary’s perpetual virginity have been most clearly taught through Tradition. The bible itself tells us to hold fast to Tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form (2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:2).

Unfortunately the ‘tradition’ you have today strayed waaayyy far away from the tradition Paul was talking about. If he could speak about how you require Christians to believe those things about Mary, he would give you a tongue lashing far worse than he did to Peter or to the Galatian Judaizers.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Unfortunately the ‘tradition’ you have today strayed waaayyy far away from the tradition Paul was talking about. If he could speak about how you require Christians to believe those things about Mary, he would give you a tongue lashing far worse than he did to Peter or to the Galatian Judaizers.

How dare you defame the Mother of Christ. If St. Paul heard the way you talked about Jesus Christ’s Mother, you would be very ashamed. Remember, Christ needed His Mother, just like you will when you die.

 

[thirdn6]

Of course I disagree, that my church teaches heresies, else I would not be a member. Do I believe that some churches teach heresies? Of course, else I would be a member.

That means we are not in full agreement on doctrine. My church practices close communion, as well. You are as separated from us as we are from you. It is a mutual separation - sad, but mutual.

We all, therefore, have an obligation to work to overcome the separation we mutually share, through ecumenical dialogue, together seeking the guidance of the HS. Check the USCCB or Vatican websites to see the progress made over the last few decades to this end. And it is interesting to note that in these areas of agreement, no one has had to give up what they believe. Instead, we have come to common understanding.

I will continue with your analogy, though it is in my mind presumptuous to assume that the churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome are the “prime contractors”, even as it would be presumptuous for me to consider my church thus.
The prime contractor, too, is wounded and less capable of completing the bridge unless it seeks to dialogue and come to agreement with the “sub-contractors”. As you said, “She may not need help from sub-contractors”. Then again, she may, and probably does. The specs for the bridge are dictated by the owner. If He is allowed, prime and sub contractors can be lead by him to common agreement, and closer cooperation for completing the bridge.

I am responding to the call for unity. I pray for it everyday.

Jon

Yep. Of course you’d disagree. Your truth is your own truth… and our truth is our own truth. That’s why even when the Church says your teachings and doctrines no longer conform to her own you continue to adhere to them. But we know and the bible tells us that the Catholic Church is the only ‘pillar of truth’.

Back to my analogy…

The prime contractor is the Catholic Church as a whole. She is not lacking of anything to finish the job. But she wants also to employ workers from sub-contractors - lay people of ecclesial communities so that they also can partake of that abundant grace. But then their company is holding them back because their leaders insist on having an agreement work out their way even if its contrary to the terms between the prime and the owner. So what happens? These lay people either leave their company and be hired directly by the prime or wait IF that agreement can be pulled through by their leaders in their favor - even it means uncertainty to their people.

Oh well, needless to say, Jon… we already have our own ***‘specialty workers’ ***built-in within the Church. Lots of them.
But the Church needs more obedient and faithful workers…

Sorry. Your church was deemed non-compliant.