This would need further explaining .How do we agree ? I say God must draw us to His son , and revive our spirits , basically shows us everything (divine revelation) .We must see Him and walk and talk with Him above all else .To this end He gave us His Body , and His Written Word - both pillars of truth. Still, Billy Graham (and his churches) ,or Mother Theresa ,or Pope Benedict (his Church) , even Jesus himself could preach to a lost soul a thousand years, to no avail , till he be quickened by the Father, and or the Holy Spirit.The Pope may fail .Billy graham may fail .The Holy Spirit never does , and once He quickens , nothing can prevail against work , in the believer. This is divine revelation. What is your view ?
My view is that your divine revelation has been contaminated by Calvanism. That, however, is beyond the scope of this thread.
Perhaps .Maybe it was not put forth ,in early writings, because it was understood. Hence you call it new
No, I call it new because it never existed until recently. It cannot be found anywhere in the history of the Chruch. It is a creation of American Evangelicanism.
.However ,I believe it is not as new as you say .For sure ,scripture by itself says something about the gospel , and the remission of sins
Yes, of course. People who receive and embrace the gospel have their sins forgiven. The need to confess sins occurs AFTER one is saved.
,totally apart from trying to negate priests role .
Not really entirely. How will they hear without a preacher?
Code:
Another words , would you deny this new revelation if it did not infringe on the priests role ? As one would say and have said :yes the gospel is for the remission of sins , getting you born again , and the priest for forgiveness after this .So ,that gospel is at least remission of sins, and is nothing new ,not even to Catholicism
Right. The gospel being efficacious in the remission of sins is not an innovation. The innovation lies in the claim that the power to retain and remit sins is related to preaching the gospel.
.But I see your point , that you say that the gospel /remission of sin was always there ,but what is "new 'is it’s use to negate further confessing.
No, I said nothing of the kind.
I went in a circle ,but still disagree that the first church held your view.
You must cling to this belief. If you did not, you would have to become Catholic!
Show me that in scripture .This is at the crux of the matter ,of our differences .I find your statement cold to His effectual Word, and the Universal working of the Holy Spirit. The Word “seeps” to it’s second class citizens ,or as the lady said to Jesus ,"the dogs " getting the crumbs?
You testified to this fact at the opening of your post. Isa 11:55
You are the mother ship and we are on dingy’s ?
Why is that a problem? You seem to be comfortable and happy with your craft, are you not?
The Catholic Church is the ONLY pillar, and is author/father of ALL genuine spiritual experience on earth ?(all these things have been put forth by Catholics)
The Catholic Church does not teach that genuine spiritual expereinces are only found within her visible boundaries. If some Catholics have suggested otherwise, they are poorly catechized. The Catechism is quite clearly teaching the opposite, in fact.
It is like me saying that the Catholic Church has some truth ,because after all , they partly hold the Word as authoratative (I am not saying that , just trying to reverse YOUR statement )
Don’t worry, it has been said to me many times, even before I came here to CAF, but many times since.
As I may deny that all Catholicism is apostoilc , I feel you deny the role of the Holy Spirit and divine revelation to build and nuture His Body (apart from Catholicism)
Well, of course I deny it! Those Holy Scriptures tell me that there is only One Baptism, One Faith, One Church. Therefore, all who receive the work of the HS and are built adn nurtured by His HS are recieiving the fruit from the One Church.
That is O.K. to say your Church is supreme. I would say mine is also ,and to the extent you hold to Apostolic teaching you are Universal/Catholic (Like all Christendom)… We have opposing views of what the Church and His Body are.
Yes, I was just discussing this point on another thread. When the Reformers redefined what “Church” means, splintering of the Body exponentiated. I think the solution is to go back to the defnition of “church” given to us by the Apostles. Even many Catholics don’t know the four marks of the True Church, which is why so many of them leave in search of something else.
