Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

[rev_kevin]

I go to Confession weekly and I can tell you my experiences have been very different. Of course depending on your age your ability to make restitution may have been somewhat hampered by your minor status - a simple I’m sorry may have had to suffice. This is one for the Religious on the Boards - Brother JR or ByzCath as I was one going on two thirty years ago.

No I don’t believe that age has anything to do with it. But for the sake of agrument, lets say that being a minor that you could be right but what about as a teenager, a teenager has the ability to know what restoration is if a priest tells them they must pay back 3 times the amount that was stolden and also as a adult, a adult has the ability to know what restoration is when a priest tells them to pay back 3 times the amount that they stoled.(I’m using stealing as a example only)
Now if so many priests are making these human mistakes then how can I or anyone be certain that they can really forgive sins?
If so many priests are making this mistake then how do we know that the church is teaching their priests and congregation correctly?

 

[joandarc2008]

No I don’t believe that age has anything to do with it. But for the sake of agrument, lets say that being a minor that you could be right but what about as a teenager, a teenager has the ability to know what restoration is if a priest tells them they must pay back 3 times the amount that was stolden and also as a adult, a adult has the ability to know what restoration is when a priest tells them to pay back 3 times the amount that they stoled.(I’m using stealing as a example only)
Now if so many priests are making these human mistakes then how can I or anyone be certain that they can really forgive sins?
If so many priests are making this mistake then how do we know that the church is teaching their priests and congregation correctly?

And since I do not know what kind of confession you made or if you had made and kind of recompense or already been caught then I can’t comment on each these matters. Especially since you are talking about one on one situations thirty years ago that are sealed. If you had already been caught and suffered punishment than it could be assumed by those priests that you had recompense to man by a manmade punishment whether it be by returning money or grounding. It is man-inflicted punishment for crime against man.

 

[rev_kevin]

Matthew 6:9-15
"This, then is hou you should pray,

Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done.
Give is this day our daily bread. AND FORGIVE US OF OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US (trepass is sins)
And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you don not forgive men their sins. your Father will not forgive your sins.

Here Jesus is telling us to go directly to God to ask him to forgive us of our sins.
He does not say to go to a priest to forgive us of our sins or to a priest to go to God for us to forgive us of our sins. No, he is saying go directly to God and ask him to forgive us of our sins.

Also before you take the Eucharist you say, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed.” Here you are going directly to God and asking him to forgive you of your sins before you take the Eucharist. Now how do you know that God has forgiven you of your sins before you take the Eucharist? You didn’t go to a priest and ask him to forgive you. You are not confessing your sins to the priest, you are asking God directly to forgive them.

 

[rev_kevin]

And since I do not know what kind of confession you made or if you had made and kind of recompense or already been caught then I can’t comment on each these matters. Especially since you are talking about one on one situations thirty years ago that are sealed. If you had already been caught and suffered punishment than it could be assumed by those priests that you had recompense to man by a manmade punishment whether it be by returning money or grounding. It is man-inflicted punishment for crime against man.

Ok it was not 30 years ago, it was 30 years of being a Catholic. Now you are saying that a priest can assume that I have been caught and suffered punishment without knowing for sure. Now if he can assume this and his assumption is incorrect then my sins are not really forgiven because he made a mistake in assuming.

 

[pablope]

Ok I see what you are saying, but why does a priest tell you to do x amount of prayers instead of reparation to the person you sinned against? For example: I stold something from you, why don’t the priest say, since you stold this from this person you must return it or replace it with something better instead of saying do 10 Hail Maries, 10 Our Fathers?

It does not stop there…there is still the expiation of the sin…the effect of the sin is still there…so if you stole something, it has to be returned or make amends for it.

 

[rev_kevin]

It does not stop there…there is still the expiation of the sin…the effect of the sin is still there…so if you stole something, it has to be returned or make amends for it.

But the priest never said I had too. So by his mistake, my sins were not forgiven. (I only use stealing something as a example and me as the one who stold)

 

[Cat_Herder]

Also before you take the Eucharist you say, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed.” Here you are going directly to God and asking him to forgive you of your sins before you take the Eucharist. Now how do you know that God has forgiven you of your sins before you take the Eucharist? You didn’t go to a priest and ask him to forgive you. You are not confessing your sins to the priest, you are asking God directly to forgive them.

Because we can pray directly to God for the forgiveness of non-mortal sins (and this is done at the start of every Mass):

1 John 5:14-16 (NRSV)

And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.

The reason we can’t do that for mortal sins:

Heb 10:26-27 (NRSV)

For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth,** there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,** but a fearful prospect of judgement, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

… which is why one must not approach the Table of the Lord if in a state of mortal sin. Otherwise:

1 Cor 11:27-30 (NRSV)

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgement against themselves. For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

 

[Cat_Herder]

But the priest never said I had too. So by his mistake, my sins were not forgiven. (I only use stealing something as a example and me as the one who stold)

The guilt of the sin is forgiven the moment you are absolved. However, penance must be done to remove the effect of the sin. Otherwise, it must be expiated in purgatory.

Purgatory, indulgences, and so on have to do with the effects of sin, not their guilt. Do you need this to be explained further?

 

[rev_kevin]

The guilt of the sin is forgiven the moment you are absolved. However, penance must be done to remove the effect of the sin. Otherwise, it must be expiated in purgatory.

Purgatory, indulgences, and so on have to do with the effects of sin, not their guilt. Do you need this to be explained further?

So if the priest don’t give penance to remove the effect of the sin one must go to pugatory because the priest failed to give penance.
Where is pugatory in the bible?

 

[rev_kevin]

Because we can pray directly to God for the forgiveness of non-mortal sins (and this is done at the start of every Mass):

1 John 5:14-16 (NRSV)

And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.

The reason we can’t do that for mortal sins:

Heb 10:26-27 (NRSV)

For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth,** there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,** but a fearful prospect of judgement, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

… which is why one must not approach the Table of the Lord if in a state of mortal sin. Otherwise:

1 Cor 11:27-30 (NRSV)

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgement against themselves. For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

What kind of sin is a mortal sin?
Why won’t God forgive a mortal sin if you confess it to him?

 

[Cat_Herder]

What kind of sin is a mortal sin?

Heb 10:26 (NRSV)
For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth…

From here we get 2 of the 3 elements of a mortal sin, intent (willfulness) and full knowledge. The other element is grave matter, of which there are several biblical lists. For example:

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 21:8[/BIBLEDRB]

Why won’t God forgive a mortal sin if you confess it to him?

Because as the Bible says, a mortal sin separates us from Calvary and so “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement…” Heb 10:27 (NRSV)

 

[rev_kevin]

Heb 10:26 (NRSV)
For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth…

From here we get 2 of the 3 elements of a mortal sin, intent (willfulness) and full knowledge. The other element is grave matter, of which there are several biblical lists. For example:

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 21:8[/BIBLEDRB]

Because as the Bible says, a mortal sin separates us from Calvary and so “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement…” Heb 10:27 (NRSV)

So if someone lies and continues to lie when they know it to be wrong they are committing a mortal sin and therefore cannot be forgiven.
Revelation 21:8 says “all liers” or is a mortal sin one who turns from Christ or is it any sin that we perist in after having knowledge of it. People lie all the time and know its wrong, are they commiting a mortal sin and therefore it can not be forgive?

 

[joandarc2008]

Matthew 6:9-15
"This, then is hou you should pray,

Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done.
Give is this day our daily bread. AND FORGIVE US OF OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US (trepass is sins)
And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you don not forgive men their sins. your Father will not forgive your sins.

Here Jesus is telling us to go directly to God to ask him to forgive us of our sins.
He does not say to go to a priest to forgive us of our sins or to a priest to go to God for us to forgive us of our sins. No, he is saying go directly to God and ask him to forgive us of our sins.

Also before you take the Eucharist you say, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed.” Here you are going directly to God and asking him to forgive you of your sins before you take the Eucharist. Now how do you know that God has forgiven you of your sins before you take the Eucharist? You didn’t go to a priest and ask him to forgive you. You are not confessing your sins to the priest, you are asking God directly to forgive them.

Your first point is the Lord’s prayer - it is asking the Lord for the ability to forgive sins done against us and that we are forgiven - it does not preclude us from the Confessional as Matthew was presented to us well before the book of Acts. The Bible and Revelation are Living things. If you believe the Bible is a dead thing and that God still does not provide revelation then you also believe God to be a dead thing.

Now on the second point - actually - it is a bad translation of Latin. It is actually going back in the next new translation to the “I am not worthy to receive you into my house…but only say the word and I shall be healed.” And it is a reference to one of the stories - and I hope someone jumps in with proper verse and Chapter of Christ entering a sinners home to heal the occupants. It is one of the reasons the new translations are being done - because the vernacular translations did not match the Latin meaning and there were many that misunderstood the meaning. Eucharist can heal venial sins but mortal sin must be taken care of in the Sacrament of Confession.

 

[rev_kevin]

Your first point is the Lord’s prayer - it is asking the Lord for the ability to forgive sins done against us and that we are forgiven - it does not preclude us from the Confessional as Matthew was presented to us well before the book of Acts. The Bible and Revelation are Living things. If you believe the Bible is a dead thing and that God still does not provide revelation then you also believe God to be a dead thing.

Now on the second point - actually - it is a bad translation of Latin. It is actually going back in the next new translation to the “I am not worthy to receive you into my house…but only say the word and I shall be healed.” And it is a reference to one of the stories - and I hope someone jumps in with proper verse and Chapter of Christ entering a sinners home to heal the occupants. It is one of the reasons the new translations are being done - because the vernacular translations did not match the Latin meaning and there were many that misunderstood the meaning. Eucharist can heal venial sins but mortal sin must be taken care of in the Sacrament of Confession.

Why do you insist on saying things that I did not say like. “If you believe the Bible is a dead thing and that God still soes not provide revelation then you also believe God to be a dead thing.” Where do you get that I think the Bible is not a living thing? You seem to avoid things by statements like this. The “I am not worthy to recieve you but only say the word and I shall be healed” is what we said in Mass. If it is a bad translation then the CC should not be using it in Mass. I have a book on the order of Mass and the words used. That is what the book says. The book came from a CC.
Now I can see that we will not agree on things because for one I do not like your statement that I stated above. Good day

 

[Cat_Herder]

So if someone lies and continues to lie when they know it to be wrong they are committing a mortal sin

If the matter to which the lie pertains is grave, yes.

and therefore cannot be forgiven.

I didn’t say it couldn’t be forgiven. I just said that one’s own prayer will not do the job. It takes the Holy Spirit to do that kind of heavy lifting.

[BIBLEDRB]Jn 20:22-23[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[joandarc2008]

Why do you insist on saying things that I did not say like. “If you believe the Bible is a dead thing and that God still soes not provide revelation then you also believe God to be a dead thing.” Where do you get that I think the Bible is not a living thing? You seem to avoid things by statements like this. The “I am not worthy to recieve you but only say the word and I shall be healed” is what we said in Mass. If it is a bad translation then the CC should not be using it in Mass. I have a book on the order of Mass and the words used. That is what the book says. The book came from a CC.
Now I can see that we will not agree on things because for one I do not like your statement that I stated above. Good day

It is what we say in mass NOW in the US. That is the problem. In Latin it is not what is said because the translation is bad. As of Advent 2011 it will no longer be what is said in mass which is what I just stated to you.

If I misunderstood your religious views I apologize - but my understanding of the Baptist Faith which is what you claim to be ordained in - is that the Bible never changes and that there are no revelations after the writing of Revelations. So if that is true than my above statement stands because it is an obvious conclusion that you cannot use something written in Matthew to dispute something in Acts - as Acts would just be adding to it from an historical perspective unless you believe that the Bible is the be all end all and there is no revelation after the writing of the Bible which to me is a lot like being a deist.

 

[po18guy]

Trust, trust that God will forgive us of our sins?
How do you know that when a priest says your sins are forgiven that God has forgiven your sin? The priest could say they are forgiven but God may not forgive them.

That is not the way Jesus, our perfect Model, did it in the bible. How do you justify doing it differently from how Jesus did it in the bible, and from how James says we should do it in the bible? By what authority do you make void the Word of God in James and not confess your sins to one another? And, by what authority do you bypass Jesus and go directly to God? The bible says that Jesus is our one mediator! Just how do you justify this departure from the Holy Bible? Don’t you claim that you are a bible Christian? I mean, walk away form the Catholic Church if you must, but please don’t walk away from the bible!

 

[po18guy]

So if someone lies and continues to lie when they know it to be wrong they are committing a mortal sin and therefore cannot be forgiven.
Revelation 21:8 says “all liers” or is a mortal sin one who turns from Christ or is it any sin that we perist in after having knowledge of it. People lie all the time and know its wrong, are they commiting a mortal sin and therefore it can not be forgive?

Are you sure you were a Catholic? You should know that mortal sins are forgiven thousands of times a day by the Church. We are not talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, just mortal sins - please refer to 1 John for clarification here.

 

[rev_kevin]

It is what we say in mass NOW in the US. That is the problem. In Latin it is not what is said because the translation is bad. As of Advent 2011 it will no longer be what is said in mass which is what I just stated to you.

If I misunderstood your religious views I apologize - but my understanding of the Baptist Faith which is what you claim to be ordained in - is that the Bible never changes and that there are no revelations after the writing of Revelations. So if that is true than my above statement stands because it is an obvious conclusion that you cannot use something written in Matthew to dispute something in Acts - as Acts would just be adding to it from an historical perspective unless you believe that the Bible is the be all end all and there is no revelation after the writing of the Bible which to me is a lot like being a deist.

Well I’m glad to see there will be a change In 2011 to correct a mistake that has been going on for a long time.

Well your understanding is not correct. Yes I am a Baptist but I was not ordained a Baptist minister and I am not a Baptist minister. I am a Independent Minister. (Independent minister Catholic turned Baptist)

 

[rev_kevin]

That is not the way Jesus, our perfect Model, did it in the bible. How do you justify doing it differently from how Jesus did it in the bible, and from how James says we should do it in the bible? By what authority do you make void the Word of God in James and not confess your sins to one another? And, by what authority do you bypass Jesus and go directly to God? The bible says that Jesus is our one mediator! Just how do you justify this departure from the Holy Bible? Don’t you claim that you are a bible Christian? I mean, walk away form the Catholic Church if you must, but please don’t walk away from the bible!

Well if you read my other posts I have said that we confess our sins to one another if we have sinnes against that person so your authority statement is null and void. When I confess my sins to God I go through Jesus. I say at the end of my confession “this I ask through your son Jesus Christ.” So I don’t bypass Jesus as you claim. But If Jesus is our mediator then why do you need a priest of mediate for you to Jesus? Can’t you go to the ONLY mediator to God who is Jesus Christ instead of going through a priest to go to Jesus to God?
I didn’t walk away from the Bible, you misunderstood things and assumed things.