Do Catholics believe John 6:53?

[joe370]

Joe, why do you always break the thread when you post so that none can follow the conversation?

No Joe, those words are your interpretation of the Bible.

S, you are saying: you have the correct interpretation of those words? Why should anyone believe you over me, or me over you? Who is suppose to settle this matter Russ? Here are those words, to which I did not utter or write:

And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[ralphy]

He gets it by means of the laying on of hands, with the line of hands going back all the way to Jesus and the 12 disciples.

Only one with authority can pass on authority. (Martin Luther had no authority to ordain priests or Bishops, so any line that runs back through Martin Luther is an invalid line.)

Jesus (who is God, and has authority) gave the 12 disciples authority to “do this in remembrance of Me” at the Last Supper. * He also gave them authority to hear Confessions and forgive sins in the Upper Room on Easter Sunday night, when He said, “As the Father has sent me, so I send you. Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” John 20:19-23

The disciples ordained Bishops, and passed the same authority to them to do the same, together with authority to ordain presbyters (priests) and deacons to assist with this work. Only Bishops have the authority to ordain other Bishops, and also priests and deacons.*Ok. Let me ask you a few questions. If the present pope is a successor of Peter as you say, why does he have to ride around in a bulletproof vehicle where ever he goes, I would think that the Lord would protect him or is he possibly scared of death.? Also where has all the power gone that was passed down to him in the line of succession? Ralph

 

[ralphy]

Well, Ralph, how about the canon of Scripture itself? That’s part of Sacred Tradition. It’s not written down in Scripture that, for example, the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired, right? Does Scripture anywhere say that Luke is to be included in the bible but the Didache is not?

I am not asking what is not there. I am asking you to produce something on the things you claim “are there” according to the Roman catholic church. Ralph

 

[PRmerger]

I am not asking what is not there. I am asking you to produce something on the things you claim “are there” according to the Roman catholic church. Ralph

Ok. Here goes…
This is what Sacred Tradition has declared, not Scripture:
Genesis is inspired. Exodus is inspired. Leviticus is inspired. Matthew is inspired. Mark is inspired…

You would not know these are inspired were it not for the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

Ok. Let me ask you a few questions. If the present pope is a successor of Peter as you say, why does he have to ride around in a bulletproof vehicle where ever he goes, I would think that the Lord would protect him or is he possibly scared of death?

Why did St. Peter himself hide out in the Catacombs rather than saying Mass in the public streets? God has appointed him to a particular mission. If he recklessly allows himself to be killed before he has completed it, God will not be pleased with him.

Also where has all the power gone that was passed down to him in the line of succession?

He still has it all - it didn’t go anywhere.

 

[joe370]

No, I do not go to my pastor to receive forgiveness from God. He does not stand BETWEEN me and God, we both stand side by side at the foot of the cross.

**Your church is a teaching church; your Pastor guides and teaches you, even though you both stand side by side at the foot of the cross; that is mediation by definition!!! Is he an obstacle? Of course not! Were the Apostles obstacles when they forgave sins? Of course not!

Russ, if you believe what you say, then why not just take it right to Christ?
**

**I respectfully ask: why are you here at CAF? Wasn’t it to learn why the C.C. believes in a literal interpretation of John 6? I came here because of my lingering doubts as a Lutheran… to learn about the one church established by God 2000 years ago…
**

**I’ll give it the old college try, just one more time: why, in Matthew 16:6, does Jesus explain to his followers, after they grumble, what He meant, at which point they understood that he was not telling them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees, yet fails to do the same in John 6, if in fact your church’s interpretation is correct, regarding John 6? If the C.C.'s interpretation is correct, then He did explain to His followers after they grumbled, 8 times, at which point they walked away because they understood that He was speaking in a literal manner; why didn’t the Apostles walk away? **

Jesus said to them, “Look out, and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” They concluded among themselves, saying, “It is because we have brought no bread.” When Jesus became aware of this he said, “You of little faith, why do you conclude among yourselves that it is because you have no bread? Do you not yet understand, and do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many wicker baskets you took up? Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you took up? How do you not comprehend that I was not speaking to you about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Then they understood that he was not telling them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

 

[PRmerger]

My brother in the Lord, BereanRuss has answered this situation in post # 1086. Thanks Russ. Ralph

Ralph, he did not show any evidence that there was any belief in the Rapture as you understand it, prior to 1800.

Do you have any evidence that the Early Church Fathers taught this? What about Martin Luther? Anybody who believed this before Darby?

 

[PRmerger]

If I mis-quoting then post the section of the CCC that teaches otherwise. I have even requested the portions of the CCC that pertain to the sacrament of reconciliation to be posted so we can all examine them, but I have seen none.

II. Why a Sacrament of Reconciliation after Baptism?
“You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” One must appreciate the magnitude of the gift God has given us in the sacraments of Christian initiation in order to grasp the degree to which sin is excluded for him who has “put on Christ.” (Gal: 3:27) But the apostle John also says: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” And the Lord himself taught us to pray: “Forgive us our trespasses,” linking our forgiveness of one another’s offenses to the forgiveness of our sins that God will grant us.

1426
Conversion to Christ, the new birth of Baptism, the gift of the Holy Spirit and the Body and Blood of Christ received as food have made us “holy and without blemish,” just as the Church herself, the Bride of Christ, is “holy and without blemish.” (Eph 1:4; 5:27)Nevertheless the new life received in Christian initiation has not abolished the frailty and weakness of human nature, nor the inclination to sin that tradition calls concupiscence, which remains in the baptized such that with the help of the grace of Christ they may prove themselves in the struggle of Christian life. This is the struggle of conversion directed toward holiness and eternal life to which the Lord never ceases to call us. CCC 1425-1426

 

[PRmerger]

More from the CCC regarding the Sacrament of Reconciliation:

Only God forgives sin

Only God forgives sins. (Mk 2:7) Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: “Your sins are forgiven.” (Mark 2:5; 10; Lk 7:48) Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name. (Jn 20:21-23)

1442
Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the “ministry of reconciliation.” (2Cor 5:18)The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: “Be reconciled to God.” (2 Cor 5:20)

In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head.

 

[NotWorthy]

When we say that Jesus is speaking figuratively when He said, “…unless you eat the flesh…” we are saying that Jesus was teaching that He must abide inside the heart, not the stomach.

Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. [John 14:23]

Well, here’s the problem with this. You say “eat the flesh” means, “abiding inside the heart…”, but evidently you aren’t Greek.

Simply look at Galatians (there are also examples in Psalms) - Galatians 15:4-5 - For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another - The Galatians are not “abiding inside the heart” when they eat and devour one another. Notice the author **contrasts **loving your neighbor with biting and devouring.

I think you are not translating the verses so much as making them fit your own pre-conceived notions.

 

[NotWorthy]

All who are led of His Spirit are His church.

All who willingly walk away from the Eucharist and Confession are in my prayers.

 

[NotWorthy]

If I mis-quoting then post the section of the CCC that teaches otherwise. I have even requested the portions of the CCC that pertain to the sacrament of reconciliation to be posted so we can all examine them, but I have seen none.

And personally, I don’t think I should provide it for you. You made the claim, you can look it up. If one of the others feels like giving it to you, so be it.

 

[NotWorthy]

Water refered to here is the “washing of water by the word”. Ralph

How do you get that?

What did Naaman pre-figure?
What did the Apostles do immediately after John 3:5?
Why is every major conversion in Acts accompanied by water baptism?
What did the 1st century Church think “born of water and spirit” think?

You guys are stretching.

 

[NotWorthy]

If I may suggest NotWorthy, that you examine the teaching of your church with the word of God and see where the truth is. Ralph

Nice try, Ralph.

Look up “Perfect Contrition” in the Catechism. It’s on-line.

 

[NotWorthy]

You bring up a new subject without a verse.

Slow down and read post #1082 again.

 

[NotWorthy]

Befor you talk about the “offering at the mass”, you should read Heb 10:11-18. Ralph

So, you think Malachi is not talking about the Mass? What then is he talking about. This is how the early Church interpreted it. I believe the words that I referenced, “So that from East to West a perfect offering may be made…” are from the 2nd or 3rd century - the oldest known form of the Eucharistic Prayer.

 

[NotWorthy]

There are no degrees of sin, all sin is against Gods will. You are never cut off from the Throne of Grace if you are saved. In fact you can not get to the Throne of grace unless you ARE saved, as you can not go through Christ to get to the Throne of grace without salvation. Ralph

It seems that the Apostle John feels that there are different degrees of sin. And also, is it John 15, that Jesus tells the Apostles that if you don’t abide in Him, He will cut you off from the vine?

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus Himself explained that the words he was speaking were not literal but were, “spirit and life.”

Since when does “Spirit and life” mean “symbolic”?

 

[NotWorthy]

Okay. Is it not time that the Roman Catholic church produced some of this traditions on paper they keep talking about, I don’t mean the things written down by the catholic church as to the things they added on or taken away from scripture. I would like to see you back up some of the things that you are saying and where the authority comes from. My backup comes from the word of God. For instance, show me where the “priest” gets the power to change the “bread” and “blood” into the body and blood of Christ. Ralph

Read posts 1 - 1100. You’ll find it. “Do this in memory of me”. Look up the parts about “poeien” and “anamnesis”.

 

[NotWorthy]

Ok. Let me ask you a few questions. If the present pope is a successor of Peter as you say, why does he have to ride around in a bulletproof vehicle where ever he goes, I would think that the Lord would protect him or is he possibly scared of death.? Also where has all the power gone that was passed down to him in the line of succession? Ralph

Ralph, be careful. You’re showing your spots, again. When did Jesus promise that he would protect any of the faithful from harm? Was St. Stephen lacking since he wasn’t protected? How about St.'s Peter and Paul?

This question is rather ignorant, IMO.